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Who would you vote for tomorrow (Post FG Crisis)

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24

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    #32
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Realistically there are only 3 parties that will govern that will not be minority parties: FF, FG and Labour. I wouldn't vote with Labour as I disagree with a number of their policies and I think they are too interwoven with unions to make the changes we need. With FG right now there is just too much chaos to vote for them. FG have the possibility to govern but they seriously need to sort out their act. That leaves FF as the other choice.


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    #33
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    FG have the possibility to govern but they seriously need to sort out their act. That leaves FF as the other choice.

    FG have to sort out their act ???

    And FF don't ? :eek:

    I give up!


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    #34
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    trapsagenius wrote: »
    I wouldn't say "comprehensively".I mean, he won by 6 votes only.The fact that half his front bench, including his two most able politicians (imo) in Varadkar and Bruton, don't have confidence in him is hardly inspiring.

    I didn't suggest that he "won" comprehensively.

    I said that he dealt with it comprehensively; meeting it head on and telling those whinging to put their money where their mouth was.

    That's a sign of someone who meets challenges head-on, with conviction, putting their head on the block, which is normally what you'd hear people claiming Kenny can't do!


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    #35
    trapsagenius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭trapsagenius


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I didn't suggest that he "won" comprehensively.

    I said that he dealt with it comprehensively; meeting it head on and telling those whinging to put their money where their mouth was.

    That's a sign of someone who meets challenges head-on, with conviction, putting their head on the block, which is normally what you'd hear people claiming Kenny can't do!

    Ok, fair enough.But in fairness, if he wanted to do what was best for his party, and the country, he would have stepped aside, instead of leaving FG divided and without the immediate service of some of it's best spokesmen.


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    #36
    EnoughIsEnough
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭EnoughIsEnough


    What I can't understand is that in a democracy why we do not get to know the result of the vote ?

    Maybe Enda Kenny is cuter than what FF can offer !!

    Don't think even Charlie Haughey would have got away with not announcing the result of a ballot. Brings a whole new meaning to transparency etc !!!!!


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    #37
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    EnoughIsEnough wrote: »
    What I can't understand is that in a democracy why we do not get to know the result of the vote ?

    Simple, the result was tight and showed how widely split the party is. Making it public just makes Kenny look weak. Better to brush it under the carpet etc.


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    #38
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Who do you vote for if you want a centre right government that isn't populated by gombeen men? FF and FG are, based on today's evidence, both ruled out. In fairness to labour they have some good, honest people but I could never vote for their policies.


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    #39
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    FG probably. I hope the next GE spells the end of the Greens I could never stand them.


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    #40
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Labour, as how I've been intending to vote anyway.

    The only reason I'm dissappointed in FG possibly ruining themselves is the prospect of another 5 years of FF, and the total covering up of last week's critical reports. They needed to be discussed!


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    #41
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Sand wrote: »
    I dont think the split was ever as bitter as a Haughey FF one. Haughey was the sort of chap who would skim off a charity collection for a friends illness, let alone what he would do to an enemy. In comparison, Bruton and Kenny were having a chat midway during the meeting.

    So, an out and out split to an alternate party is unlikely.

    Still I liked Haughey's policy of always having an open vote so you have to stand up like a man/woman and not hide behind a cowardly secret ballot.


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    #42
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,549 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    @rugbyman
    to those who want to vote for a change in Govt. rather than just supporting the party of a leader you like ,you must look at the likelyhood of a particular candidate being elected.

    Sand, i have read most of your posts with interest over the last year or two.
    On the Enda/Richard issue you seem to have lost some of your logic and rationale. At this moment I cannot find examples of what I mean other than ,on this thread where you suggest lab will be bigger than FG.

    I want a change in government, but that doesnt mean trading say Lenihan for Kenny. Both are reasonably nice guys, but both are completely out of their depth. So no change. The change I want is someone reasonably economically competent running the government. Bruton offered good reasons for voting FG. Kenny doesnt. Honestly, theres no particular reason to go out and vote for Kenny's FG without Bruton. They'll have no more competence than Lenihan, and Lenihan at least will have the advantage of experience.

    As for Labour being bigger than FG...one of the most frustrating things I see about FG these days is that they're so utterly sure they simply have to do absolutely nothing, nothing at all and victory will just fall into their laps. They dont have to bother, shure, who else would the electorate vote for? Fianna Fail? Labour? ...oh wait... they just might.

    Fine Gael needs to wake the hell up or theyre going to be left in the dust by Labour. Labour are offering the easy Bertie/Fianna Fail style of politics. Pay rises for the public sector, no cuts for the social welfare, class warfare against whoever is left with more than a few pence after theyve been taxed. Us Irish love this sort of nonsense. FG simply arent fighting for votes. Labour are.

    Whatever reason swing voters had for voting for FG with Richard Bruton (i.e. economic competence in a time of economic chaos) is now lost to the back benches. In a field of choices devoid of competence, all we are left with is a variety of incompetents, or better yet, just staying at home and not bothering.
    @Judgement Day
    Still I liked Haughey's policy of always having an open vote so you have to stand up like a man/woman and not hide behind a cowardly secret ballot.

    All votes ought to be done by secret ballot, so that TDs can be more than simply machines.


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    #43
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I'd go with Labour. It's a tired cliché, but best of a bad bunch considering the situation atm. FG & FF seem too focused on ousting one another and expunging each others ego. That's all well and good when things are running smoothly but not now


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    #44
    limklad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    loldog wrote: »
    I think Irish people have spent too much time badmouthing politicians and generally whinging about the political class, often unjustly. It creates an atmosphere where worthwhile people of high calibre will not go into politics as it is a thankless task.

    Which has led to this situation.

    .
    If you want power of the Government, of course, you will always be define on what goes wrong because you have the power. If people do not whing then the Government will do nothing to correct the problem, it is human nature. Been whing about is part of the Job. If politicians cannot take it, they not worth voting for.

    It would be very naive to think it is only political people whing about. It happens to everybody in the public eye.


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    #45
    EnoughIsEnough
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭EnoughIsEnough


    ...is I believe the only answer to our economic woes - present AND future !
    Many people feel that none of the political parties have what it takes to lead this country through the even harder times ahead. Don't anyone think we have seen of the end of this recession.

    I feel that a National Government (with an agreed set of economic objectives etc) for a set period of 4 or 5 years and taking the best talent (and not picking Ministers based on geographic considerations etc) from FG , FF and Labour if they want to participate is our only chance of avoiding complete meltdown.

    Those in the country who have complained of expenditure cuts etc should read up on what the IMF demands from Governments in return for its money.

    In the period of National Government if Labour were to stay outside the Government - to provide a lead to the opposition - we might end up with a more realistci Right / Left choice in the future. Which is exactly why FG and FF will need to be forced into such a NATIONAL GOVERNMENTbefore we realise they are both essentially right wing parties whose only essential differences lie in the past.


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    #46
    rugbyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    Sand wrote: »
    @rugbyman


    I want a change in government, but that doesnt mean trading say Lenihan for Kenny. Both are reasonably nice guys, but both are completely out of their depth. So no change. The change I want is someone reasonably economically competent running the government. Bruton offered good reasons for voting FG. Kenny doesnt. Honestly, theres no particular reason to go out and vote for Kenny's FG without Bruton. They'll have no more competence than Lenihan, and Lenihan at least will have the advantage of
    experience.




    If you want a change in Govt then you have to vote for the parties who stand for election,as they are composed at that time. its not an a la carte menu. i will be viting for for Fg for any of several reasons. i dont believe in just voting out governments, though both Fg and Lab will benefit from such voters.




    As for Labour being bigger than FG...one of the most frustrating things I see about FG these days is that they're so utterly sure they simply have to do absolutely nothing, nothing at all and victory will just fall into their laps. They dont have to bother, shure, who else would the electorate vote for? Fianna Fail? Labour? ...oh wait... they just might.


    I agree about doing nothing, but then again what can they do in opposition. By the way I feel they do not actually want an election, certainly not before the next hairshirt budget.


    Fine Gael needs to wake the hell up or theyre going to be left in the dust by Labour. Labour are offering the easy Bertie/Fianna Fail style of politics. Pay rises for the public sector, no cuts for the social welfare, class warfare against whoever is left with more than a few pence after theyve been taxed. Us Irish love this sort of nonsense. FG simply arent fighting for votes. Labour are.

    I think you have no time for that attitude of Labours. I certainly do not. Surely you do not suggest Fg do anything similiar. For my part,I would like Fg to come out saying cuts ,cuts,cuts, but they too want to get any disaffected civil service votes.




    Whatever reason swing voters had for voting for FG with Richard Bruton (i.e. economic competence in a time of economic chaos) is now lost to the back benches.

    I think Brutons comment that he would not take a position on the font bench was just about as stupid( i usually avoid that word) a thing as I have seen. I would not be surprised that he reverses it(in national interest ,of course)


    Regards Rugbyman

    In a field of choices devoid of competence, all we are left with is a variety of incompetents, or better yet, just staying at home and not bothering.
    @Judgement Day


    All votes ought to be done by secret ballot, so that TDs can be more than simply machines.

    the quick brown fox


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    #47
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    FG have to sort out their act ???

    And FF don't ? :eek:

    I give up!

    So you basically think that FG are not a complete mess right now? That a party where a large proportion of the front bench have no faith in their leader is a party to have running the country? I never said that FF did not need to improve but as of right now they would be better than a party that you do not know what direction they are going in or that is divided.


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    #48
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Finna fail.


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    #49
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    I see four people have voted for the greens on the poll. I'm guessing thats going to be about the extent of how many votes they get in the next general election!


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    #50
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Labour and yes, I know!

    That's how bad it has got.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #51
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Sinn Féin. Surprise, surprise! :)


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    #52
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    K-9 wrote: »
    Labour and yes, I know!

    That's how bad it has got.

    Labour have 3 councillors in Donegal now, decent candidates in both constituencies. Labour are building there nicely.


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    #53
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #54
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No. But they are going in the right direction. I expect Frank McBrearty Jr to poll over 4,000 in 2012 and possibly get in in 2017. Jimmy Harte the same but he'll poll lower, maybe 3,000 in 2012. Harte could be a surprise though, he has been independent for years but is of Fine Gael stock yonks ago, his dad was a TD and minister. Come elections people remember the family connections and give good preference to people with a name. Not a fan of it myself, but it does happen.


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    #55
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    So you basically think that FG are not a complete mess right now? That a party where a large proportion of the front bench have no faith in their leader is a party to have running the country? I never said that FF did not need to improve but as of right now they would be better than a party that you do not know what direction they are going in or that is divided.

    What's this about a divided party? FG are not divided on policy or on general direction nor are they divided in their desire to see the back of FF. What we saw this week was what should have been an internal debate about leadership. Meanwhile FF are united in failure, in a party where there should publicly be great unease amongst it's members and TDs. They row in behind s leader they should be forcing out. They condone failure for fear of an election, namely for self preservation. They vote confidence in Cowen, O'Dea, O'Donoghue. I'd rather take a 'divided' party having this type of internal reorganisation spurned from a care about public opinion than a frightened stagnant piss poor shell of a party united in failure and arrogant in the face of defeat


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    #56
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    Meanwhile FF are united in failure, in a party where there should publicly be great unease amongst it's members and TDs. They row in behind s leader they should be forcing out. They condone failure for fear of an election

    Exactly the point that a lot of posters on here just dont seem to get


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    #57
    bijapos
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭bijapos


    1. Greens*
    2. Labour
    3. ......Fill
    4. .....the
    5. ......rest
    6. .......in
    7. .......whetever
    8. ......way
    9. FG
    10. FF
    Thats how I've always voted here, the sooner people realise FG and FF are as corrupt as each other the better.

    Saying that I think the country needs two things
    - a list voting system
    - and a Social Democratic party along the lines of the Scandanavian ones with a strong environmental and social justice ethos.




    * I vote Green because of their attempts at changing planning legislation and corporate/private donation legislation, the first step to rectifying a lot of what is wrong in this country.


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    #58
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    One week ago Enda was wooden & lacking in the charisma that might appeal to the Irish voter, one week later & nothing has changed :(


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    #59
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I never said that FF did not need to improve but as of right now they would be better than a party that you do not know what direction they are going in or that is divided.

    "Divided" vs "Corrupt and Incompetent"

    I know which I'd take.


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    #60
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Camelot wrote: »
    One week ago Enda was wooden & lacking in the charisma that might appeal to the Irish voter, one week later & nothing has changed :(

    Surely his policies should appeal to you before his charisma? While I agree that being a capable public speaker helps - if that was all that mattered, any tom, dick or harry could run the country.

    Not that I'd support Enda or his party's politics - but I think he's being made a scapegoat. He deserves credit for bringing Fine Gael to where it is today. Personally, from what I've seen in the last week - I'm not all that impressed by Bruton's speaking ability anyway.


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    #61
    Plowman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


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