Who would you vote for tomorrow (Post FG Crisis)

Dr. Baltar

Considering now that a lot of people are reconsidering how they feel about Fine Gael due to the Bruton/Kenny situation I would like to to see who Boards would vote for tomorrow.

Personally, I am confused. I wouldn't give Fianna Fáil the steam off my own piss after the way they've handled the country, I feel Fine Gael are incompetent to manage their own party don't mind the country... Labour have progressive social policies which I applaud, but their economic policies are ridiculous.
The Greens are traitors to democracy, hanging in there with Fianna Fáil to pass thier own agenda, and Sinn Féin/The Hard Left is just something I wouldn't like to see running this country.

I'm not sure who to turn to anymore.

RonMexico

Can you make a poll OP? Feel pretty much the same here.

deanh

Given the events of the past 20? years, my vote is for the party out of power for most of that time, Fine Gael. There is always an alternative, people just have to have the courage to vote for it.

sink

Don't know, probably go by who is on the local ticket. I'm not enamoured by any parties front bench, even less so after today.

Pride Fighter

Labour.

duffflash

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Labour.

+1

Breezer

Tomorrow I'd spoil my vote. I'll see what happens in the next few weeks and re-evaluate the plan then.

Lando Griffin

I was looking forward to the next election until this civil war broke out in FG. Kenny has to go as leader before they get my vote, now all we have to look forward to is every FF td smiling like a spoilt cheshire cat tarnished with greed and corruption.

duffflash

Breezer wrote: »

Tomorrow I'd spoil my vote. I'll see what happens in the next few weeks and re-evaluate the plan then.

So its another 5 years of FF voted in by the OAP brigade and you by not using your vote:mad:

Breezer

duffflash wrote: »

So its another 5 years of FF voted in by the OAP brigade and you by not using your vote:mad:

A spoiled vote is using your vote. Not voting is not using your vote.

Similarly, spoiling your vote is not voting for Fianna Fáil. Voting for Fianna Fáil is voting for Fianna Fáil.

duffflash

Breezer wrote: »

A spoiled vote is using your vote. Not voting is not using your vote.

So spoiled have won the election. Their a great party:rolleyes:

mal1

I wasn't sure last week, thinking of Fine Gael this morning if Richard got it, but it's probably Greens or Labour now.

loldog

I think Irish people have spent too much time badmouthing politicians and generally whinging about the political class, often unjustly. It creates an atmosphere where worthwhile people of high calibre will not go into politics as it is a thankless task.

Which has led to this situation.

.

Breezer

duffflash wrote: »

So spoiled have won the election. Their a great party:rolleyes:

I cannot in good conscience vote for:

Fianna Fáil - a mixture of criminals, party loyalists, and numpties

Fine Gael (without a credible front bench) - a less corrupt but equally useless version of Fianna Fáil

Labour - a party with a vague vision of fairness but no substance behind it. And I'm not sure I agree with its idea of fairness. I can't be sure though, since it's never really specified.

Sinn Féin - I disagree with their views on just about everything

Independent - independent candidates are, generally speaking, not in the national interest, in my opinion

So what exactly would you like me to do? Say '+1' every time someone says 'Labour' because it happens to be your preference? Or at least register a protest? To Labour's credit, it probably is the best of an extremely bad lot after this, but that's not enough for me to vote for them.

Edit: I actually forgot the Greens. Says it all really.

Labour.

duffflash

Breezer wrote: »

I cannot in good conscience vote for:

Fianna Fáil - a mixture of criminals, party loyalists, and numpties
Fine Gael (without a credible front bench) - a less corrupt but equally useless version of Fianna Fáil
Labour - a party with a vague vision of fairness but no substance behind it
Sinn Féin - I disagree with their views on just about everything
Independent - independent candidates are, generally speaking, not in the national interest, in my opinion

So what exactly would you like me to do? Say '+1' every time someone says 'Labour'? To Labour's credit, it probably is the best of an extremely bad lot after this, but that's not enough for me to vote for them.

Edit: I actually forgot the Greens. Says it all really.

Look god knows we need a big change. There is a lot of OAPs in this country that will vote for a party because of what side their family was on in the civil war. It’s up to the youth of this country to use their vote otherwise it will always be the same old farts in power. Thats all I'm saying.

Sand

I honestly dont know if theres a party in Ireland I could vote *for* at this point. Fine Gael have been stripped of Bruton and most of their front bench talent, and even if the rebels return to the bench it will be under a leader they have no confidence in - doesnt sound like a recipe for good government, especially given that under Kenny they will be a minority partner with Labour.

Fianna Fail, Labour, Greens, the Provos...Id give them all negative votes if such a thing were possible.

Breezer

duffflash wrote: »

Look god knows we need a big change. There is a lot of OAPs in this country that will vote for a party because of what side their family was on in the civil war. It’s up to the youth of this country to use their vote otherwise it will always be the same old farts in power. Thats all I'm saying.

I fully agree, but when presented with the options as outlined above I don't honestly see what else I can do. I don't see any of them as a change for the better. I also can't believe I'm saying this as I hate the "there's no alternative" argument, but that was when I could genuinely see one.

However, there will not be a general election tomorrow. Maybe Enda Kenny will somehow shape FG into a credible outfit again. Maybe Eamon Gilmore will finally start explaining exactly what 'fairness' is and how Labour is going to bring it about. In all likelihood, I will find something that I can latch on to, and vote for it.

But at the moment I am bitterly disappointed that the party I saw as Ireland's best hope for the future lies in tatters. If there were an election tomorrow, I would spoil my vote. But there won't be, so I'll wait and see.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Lockstep

Labour for me.

Edit: Mods; any chance of adding a poll on?

nesf

Locked while I add a poll (involves having to move it to a different forum and back etc)

Thread reopened. Enjoy.

thebman

I'm hoping FG's Bruton fans split into a new party that has good economic policy as its focus.

Sand

I dont think the split was ever as bitter as a Haughey FF one. Haughey was the sort of chap who would skim off a charity collection for a friends illness, let alone what he would do to an enemy. In comparison, Bruton and Kenny were having a chat midway during the meeting.

So, an out and out split to an alternate party is unlikely.

InchicoreDude

Fine Gael because I believe that they still posess more talented politicians than any of the other parties. I include Enda Kenny, Richard Bruton, Brian Hayes & James Reilly in that bracket.
My hope now is that Enda Kenny will invite many of the current frontbench back to their respective positions.
I think I may have overestimated Richard Bruton though - I was sure that a guy who comes across as meticulous as he does would have absolutely ensured he had the numbers to win any challenge.

guinnessdrinker

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I think I may have overestimated Richard Bruton though - I was sure that a guy who comes across as meticulous as he does would have absolutely ensured he had the numbers to win any challenge.

I agree with this, when it was becoming obvious Bruton didn't have the numbers why did he even challange Kenny. That and his extremely poor sense of timing.

Liam Byrne

Last week's agenda : "Kenny is a wimp and I wouldn't vote for him"
This week's agenda : "Kenny took the bull by the horns and dealt comprehensively with a challenge, and because of that I wouldn't vote for him"

Some kudos has to go to Kenny for issuing the vote of confidence; compare and contrast with Cowen who brazened it out and refused point-blank to allow FF members to speak their mind in a secret ballot.

At the moment, Kenny is the best option, maybe in conjunction with Labour in a coalition. It worked for us the last time, sowing the seeds of growth that FF subsequently squandered.

Kev_ps3

If I was forced it would be Sinn Fein, maby Labour, but I really cant stand any of them.

trapsagenius

Labour, but if Lenihan gets better and becomes leader of FF I'd have no hesitation in voting for them.

Sand

@Kev_ps3

If I was forced it would be Sinn Fein, maby Labour, but I really cant stand any of them.

Shure they're all the same and all pretty terrible. Youd be best staying at home and not voting. Best for Ireland too.

trapsagenius

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Last week's agenda : "Kenny is a wimp and I wouldn't vote for him"
This week's agenda : "Kenny took the bull by the horns and dealt comprehensively with a challenge, and because of that I wouldn't vote for him"

I wouldn't say "comprehensively".I mean, he won by 6 votes only.The fact that half his front bench, including his two most able politicians (imo) in Varadkar and Bruton, don't have confidence in him is hardly inspiring.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

At the moment, Kenny is the best option, maybe in conjunction with Labour in a coalition. It worked for us the last time, sowing the seeds of growth that FF subsequently squandered.

And where does Albert Reynolds fit into this whole scenario?

rugbyman

I havejust read through two threads of more or less anti Kenny stuff.
What amazes me is how much interest the same few posters have.

One lady talks of how she was about to break FF tradition in her family , the Fg to whom she would move to, would need to change its leader. ., another who voted Labour for 20 years but had decided to change to FG ,if it changed its leader. fairly fickle stuff.

it occurs to me that most of these had no particular intention of moving.


to those who want to vote for a change in Govt. rather than just supporting the party of a leader you like ,you must look at the likelyhood of a particular candidate being elected.

Sand, i have read most of your posts with interest over the last year or two.
On the Enda/Richard issue you seem to have lost some of your logic and rationale. At this moment I cannot find examples of what I mean other than ,on this thread where you suggest lab will be bigger than FG.

Regards, Rugbyman

Mrmoe

Realistically there are only 3 parties that will govern that will not be minority parties: FF, FG and Labour. I wouldn't vote with Labour as I disagree with a number of their policies and I think they are too interwoven with unions to make the changes we need. With FG right now there is just too much chaos to vote for them. FG have the possibility to govern but they seriously need to sort out their act. That leaves FF as the other choice.

Liam Byrne

Mrmoe wrote: »

FG have the possibility to govern but they seriously need to sort out their act. That leaves FF as the other choice.

FG have to sort out their act ???

And FF don't ? :eek:

I give up!

Liam Byrne

trapsagenius wrote: »

I wouldn't say "comprehensively".I mean, he won by 6 votes only.The fact that half his front bench, including his two most able politicians (imo) in Varadkar and Bruton, don't have confidence in him is hardly inspiring.

I didn't suggest that he "won" comprehensively.

I said that he dealt with it comprehensively; meeting it head on and telling those whinging to put their money where their mouth was.

That's a sign of someone who meets challenges head-on, with conviction, putting their head on the block, which is normally what you'd hear people claiming Kenny can't do!

trapsagenius

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I didn't suggest that he "won" comprehensively.

I said that he dealt with it comprehensively; meeting it head on and telling those whinging to put their money where their mouth was.

That's a sign of someone who meets challenges head-on, with conviction, putting their head on the block, which is normally what you'd hear people claiming Kenny can't do!

Ok, fair enough.But in fairness, if he wanted to do what was best for his party, and the country, he would have stepped aside, instead of leaving FG divided and without the immediate service of some of it's best spokesmen.

EnoughIsEnough

What I can't understand is that in a democracy why we do not get to know the result of the vote ?

Maybe Enda Kenny is cuter than what FF can offer !!

Don't think even Charlie Haughey would have got away with not announcing the result of a ballot. Brings a whole new meaning to transparency etc !!!!!

nesf

EnoughIsEnough wrote: »

What I can't understand is that in a democracy why we do not get to know the result of the vote ?

Simple, the result was tight and showed how widely split the party is. Making it public just makes Kenny look weak. Better to brush it under the carpet etc.

hmmm

Who do you vote for if you want a centre right government that isn't populated by gombeen men? FF and FG are, based on today's evidence, both ruled out. In fairness to labour they have some good, honest people but I could never vote for their policies.

PeterIanStaker

FG probably. I hope the next GE spells the end of the Greens I could never stand them.

BluntGuy

Labour, as how I've been intending to vote anyway.

The only reason I'm dissappointed in FG possibly ruining themselves is the prospect of another 5 years of FF, and the total covering up of last week's critical reports. They needed to be discussed!

Judgement Day

Sand wrote: »

I dont think the split was ever as bitter as a Haughey FF one. Haughey was the sort of chap who would skim off a charity collection for a friends illness, let alone what he would do to an enemy. In comparison, Bruton and Kenny were having a chat midway during the meeting.

So, an out and out split to an alternate party is unlikely.

Still I liked Haughey's policy of always having an open vote so you have to stand up like a man/woman and not hide behind a cowardly secret ballot.

Sand

@rugbyman

to those who want to vote for a change in Govt. rather than just supporting the party of a leader you like ,you must look at the likelyhood of a particular candidate being elected.

Sand, i have read most of your posts with interest over the last year or two.
On the Enda/Richard issue you seem to have lost some of your logic and rationale. At this moment I cannot find examples of what I mean other than ,on this thread where you suggest lab will be bigger than FG.

I want a change in government, but that doesnt mean trading say Lenihan for Kenny. Both are reasonably nice guys, but both are completely out of their depth. So no change. The change I want is someone reasonably economically competent running the government. Bruton offered good reasons for voting FG. Kenny doesnt. Honestly, theres no particular reason to go out and vote for Kenny's FG without Bruton. They'll have no more competence than Lenihan, and Lenihan at least will have the advantage of experience.

As for Labour being bigger than FG...one of the most frustrating things I see about FG these days is that they're so utterly sure they simply have to do absolutely nothing, nothing at all and victory will just fall into their laps. They dont have to bother, shure, who else would the electorate vote for? Fianna Fail? Labour? ...oh wait... they just might.

Fine Gael needs to wake the hell up or theyre going to be left in the dust by Labour. Labour are offering the easy Bertie/Fianna Fail style of politics. Pay rises for the public sector, no cuts for the social welfare, class warfare against whoever is left with more than a few pence after theyve been taxed. Us Irish love this sort of nonsense. FG simply arent fighting for votes. Labour are.

Whatever reason swing voters had for voting for FG with Richard Bruton (i.e. economic competence in a time of economic chaos) is now lost to the back benches. In a field of choices devoid of competence, all we are left with is a variety of incompetents, or better yet, just staying at home and not bothering.
@Judgement Day

Still I liked Haughey's policy of always having an open vote so you have to stand up like a man/woman and not hide behind a cowardly secret ballot.

All votes ought to be done by secret ballot, so that TDs can be more than simply machines.

My name is URL

I'd go with Labour. It's a tired cliché, but best of a bad bunch considering the situation atm. FG & FF seem too focused on ousting one another and expunging each others ego. That's all well and good when things are running smoothly but not now

limklad

loldog wrote: »

I think Irish people have spent too much time badmouthing politicians and generally whinging about the political class, often unjustly. It creates an atmosphere where worthwhile people of high calibre will not go into politics as it is a thankless task.

Which has led to this situation.

.

If you want power of the Government, of course, you will always be define on what goes wrong because you have the power. If people do not whing then the Government will do nothing to correct the problem, it is human nature. Been whing about is part of the Job. If politicians cannot take it, they not worth voting for.

It would be very naive to think it is only political people whing about. It happens to everybody in the public eye.

EnoughIsEnough

...is I believe the only answer to our economic woes - present AND future !
Many people feel that none of the political parties have what it takes to lead this country through the even harder times ahead. Don't anyone think we have seen of the end of this recession.

I feel that a National Government (with an agreed set of economic objectives etc) for a set period of 4 or 5 years and taking the best talent (and not picking Ministers based on geographic considerations etc) from FG , FF and Labour if they want to participate is our only chance of avoiding complete meltdown.

Those in the country who have complained of expenditure cuts etc should read up on what the IMF demands from Governments in return for its money.

In the period of National Government if Labour were to stay outside the Government - to provide a lead to the opposition - we might end up with a more realistci Right / Left choice in the future. Which is exactly why FG and FF will need to be forced into such a NATIONAL GOVERNMENTbefore we realise they are both essentially right wing parties whose only essential differences lie in the past.

rugbyman

Sand wrote: »

@rugbyman


I want a change in government, but that doesnt mean trading say Lenihan for Kenny. Both are reasonably nice guys, but both are completely out of their depth. So no change. The change I want is someone reasonably economically competent running the government. Bruton offered good reasons for voting FG. Kenny doesnt. Honestly, theres no particular reason to go out and vote for Kenny's FG without Bruton. They'll have no more competence than Lenihan, and Lenihan at least will have the advantage of
experience.




If you want a change in Govt then you have to vote for the parties who stand for election,as they are composed at that time. its not an a la carte menu. i will be viting for for Fg for any of several reasons. i dont believe in just voting out governments, though both Fg and Lab will benefit from such voters.




As for Labour being bigger than FG...one of the most frustrating things I see about FG these days is that they're so utterly sure they simply have to do absolutely nothing, nothing at all and victory will just fall into their laps. They dont have to bother, shure, who else would the electorate vote for? Fianna Fail? Labour? ...oh wait... they just might.


I agree about doing nothing, but then again what can they do in opposition. By the way I feel they do not actually want an election, certainly not before the next hairshirt budget.


Fine Gael needs to wake the hell up or theyre going to be left in the dust by Labour. Labour are offering the easy Bertie/Fianna Fail style of politics. Pay rises for the public sector, no cuts for the social welfare, class warfare against whoever is left with more than a few pence after theyve been taxed. Us Irish love this sort of nonsense. FG simply arent fighting for votes. Labour are.

I think you have no time for that attitude of Labours. I certainly do not. Surely you do not suggest Fg do anything similiar. For my part,I would like Fg to come out saying cuts ,cuts,cuts, but they too want to get any disaffected civil service votes.




Whatever reason swing voters had for voting for FG with Richard Bruton (i.e. economic competence in a time of economic chaos) is now lost to the back benches.

I think Brutons comment that he would not take a position on the font bench was just about as stupid( i usually avoid that word) a thing as I have seen. I would not be surprised that he reverses it(in national interest ,of course)


Regards Rugbyman

In a field of choices devoid of competence, all we are left with is a variety of incompetents, or better yet, just staying at home and not bothering.
@Judgement Day


All votes ought to be done by secret ballot, so that TDs can be more than simply machines.

the quick brown fox

Mrmoe

Liam Byrne wrote: »

FG have to sort out their act ???

And FF don't ? :eek:

I give up!

So you basically think that FG are not a complete mess right now? That a party where a large proportion of the front bench have no faith in their leader is a party to have running the country? I never said that FF did not need to improve but as of right now they would be better than a party that you do not know what direction they are going in or that is divided.

ANXIOUS

Finna fail.

questionmark?

I see four people have voted for the greens on the poll. I'm guessing thats going to be about the extent of how many votes they get in the next general election!

K-9

Labour and yes, I know!

That's how bad it has got.

dlofnep

Sinn Féin. Surprise, surprise!