Who would you vote for tomorrow (Post FG Crisis)

Tipp Man

dlofnep wrote: »

Surely his policies should appeal to you before his charisma? While I agree that being a capable public speaker helps - if that was all that mattered, any tom, dick or harry could run the country.

Not that I'd support Enda or his party's politics - but I think he's being made a scapegoat. He deserves credit for bringing Fine Gael to where it is today. Personally, from what I've seen in the last week - I'm not all that impressed by Bruton's speaking ability anyway.

Where is FG today though? behind labour in the polls and their leader is only more slightly popular than the idiot who was such a large part of creating this mess

FF has never been in a more vunerable position than in the last 2 years and yet the public is not behind Kenny, still after all that FF have done the public are not behind him

There is no point in having decent policies if you can't get the bulk of the public to vote for you and that's Enda's big problem. FG need a man who will get votes and Enda is defo not that man, every single poll and the dogs on the street prove this

thebman

If Kenny has any sense he'll use this event to transform his personality.

The public are too used to him being boring and easy to ignore. He needs to come out of this revitalized or this was all for nothing and FG are in a very bad place if they come out of this with nothing IMO.

scr123

Like Brian Cowen I was born with heavy lips but after the week of fun in FG they are worn down from constant licking. No doubt when its time to expose the Labour policies fraud there will be nothing of my lips left. People will say its just my tribalism that makes me determined more than ever to vote FF come the election but come on folk the fear in FG and Labour at blowing a golden opportunity is becoming more real as the days go by. Just picture these two parties sitting at a cabinet table trying to agree a way forward for the country !! I sincerely believe FF need a break from government but holy god I will now have to work harder than ever knocking on doors to sell the only party capable of restoring the good times.

Oh, can I say its blinking time the 14 FF people who voted on this poll should get their fingers out and tackle the endless waffle from so many users who have nothing to offer but permanent slagging of the best party in the country, FF. When I log on to this politics forum the one thing I look for is the chance to click the Thank You button in response to a post that favours FF

InchicoreDude

It is a pity that there was not a poll like this posted on boards last week so that the results could be compared.

ednwireland

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

i dont, labour couldnt put a decent candidate up in donegal town if thats the strength of their machine and building nicely, i despair, i would have voted labour apart from the fact that the candidate is embroiled in an ongoing mart controversy. i see no chnage form the status quo here,SF might spring one though, the last FG dail canidate touted to take over from the ageing dinny mcginly was found double claiming expenses fror the same conference .

and no, i have no idea who to vote for

conorhal

I honestly don't know any more.

The triumphantly parochial reply of "Up Mayo!" that was John Cribbin's response to 'how did they vote?' pretty much says it all.
‘Out with the new and in with the old’ is FG’s new policy as the gombeen men and party hacks surge forward while anybody that’s young ambitious and policy driven is banished to the back benches. Business as usual for Irish politics I guess…..

samsemtex

scr123 wrote: »

Like Brian Cowen I was born with heavy lips but after the week of fun in FG they are worn down from constant licking. No doubt when its time to expose the Labour policies fraud there will be nothing of my lips left. People will say its just my tribalism that makes me determined more than ever to vote FF come the election but come on folk the fear in FG and Labour at blowing a golden opportunity is becoming more real as the days go by. Just picture these two parties sitting at a cabinet table trying to agree a way forward for the country !! I sincerely believe FF need a break from government but holy god I will now have to work harder than ever knocking on doors to sell the only party capable of restoring the good times.

Oh, can I say its blinking time the 14 FF people who voted on this poll should get their fingers out and tackle the endless waffle from so many users who have nothing to offer but permanent slagging of the best party in the country, FF. When I log on to this politics forum the one thing I look for is the chance to click the Thank You button in response to a post that favours FF

Genuine question for you...

Do you actually think Fianna Fail are a good party or the best of a truly pathetic bunch?

norrie rugger

scr123 wrote: »

Like Brian Cowen I was born with heavy lips but after the week of fun in FG they are worn down from constant licking. No doubt when its time to expose the Labour policies fraud there will be nothing of my lips left. People will say its just my tribalism that makes me determined more than ever to vote FF come the election but come on folk the fear in FG and Labour at blowing a golden opportunity is becoming more real as the days go by. Just picture these two parties sitting at a cabinet table trying to agree a way forward for the country !! I sincerely believe FF need a break from government but holy god I will now have to work harder than ever knocking on doors to sell the only party capable of restoring the good times.

Oh, can I say its blinking time the 14 FF people who voted on this poll should get their fingers out and tackle the endless waffle from so many users who have nothing to offer but permanent slagging of the best party in the country, FF. When I log on to this politics forum the one thing I look for is the chance to click the Thank You button in response to a post that favours FF

Please begin

No one else help him, let us see what he can do to the policies

scr123

samsemtex wrote: »

Genuine question for you...

Do you actually think Fianna Fail are a good party or the best of a truly pathetic bunch?

It would be easy to say, yes, FF are the best of a bad lot but much as I like to think life is simple it tends to be more complicated. Message boards are full of people pushing their own agenda and its so difficult extracting from so many posts the people who are genuine in their concern for the country and prepared to discuss in an unbiased manner. Let me make a bit of an effort without wearing the party hat.
At the end of the day politics is really a game of words and any politician with brains and honestywill tell you their powers are very limited. Three times over the years I have spoken to cabinet level Ministers and they say really they do what they are told by the mandarins in the public service. Thats as it should be to my mind, I never worry about the quality of politicians I worry about the quality in the public service.
We are a relatively small country but governing 4.4m people is still a massive task full of complications and diversity. To manage this we operate a political system we call Democracy. We elect politicians to preside over a public service that in effect governs the country. This public service is what we know as a bureaucracy and this bureaucracy operates within the four walls of, lines of authority, system of rules, specialisation and impersonality. I hate bureaucracy and at times dislike democracy but until I come up with something better I accept things as they are.
Because money doesnt grow on trees, as some people think, we operate an economy whose main purpose is to create wealth. Again using the four walls thingy the economy is built around, land, labour, capital and enterprise. Levels of success and failure are constanly measured by again four main indicators, employment, growth, balance of payments and inflation rate. The best definition I have come across of economics is " Economics is the scientific study of the allocation of scarce resources to competing uses".
Someone vaguely interested in what I have said will know this is only the starting point of a very complex subject. Howevr, it does go a little way to explain why I for one am nervous of extreme views and ideologies. FF with all its warts I see as the party who shies away from strict left or right positions and hence I see that party that much more capable of getting results necessary to at times please the broad mass of the people

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

At the end of the day politics is really a game of words and any politician with brains and honesty will tell you their powers are very limited.

That explains why we've not heard FF admit this, then ?

Mind you, we did hear enough of them say that they were powerless after the Lehman's collapse, but I'll ignore that because of the requirement for "honesty".

scr123 wrote: »

FF with all its warts I see as the party who shies away from strict left or right positions and hence I see that party that much more capable of getting results necessary to at times please the broad mass of the people

So you've no objection to how they get those results, or how they behave while they're getting those results ?

From your description of "neither fundamentally left nor right", it would appear that I should be voting FF, and yet I haven't because of their repeated corruption and abdication of any responsibility (unless they're taking credit for something, in which case we never hear the end of it).

If FF introduced the concept of accountability or "the buck stops here", then they might be worth considering based on what you've said above.

And for as long as "staunch" voters refuse to demand accountability and honesty, they won't change.

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Oh, can I say its blinking time the 14 FF people who voted on this poll should get their fingers out and tackle the endless waffle from so many users who have nothing to offer but permanent slagging of the best party in the country, FF. When I log on to this politics forum the one thing I look for is the chance to click the Thank You button in response to a post that favours FF

Yet again, a complete ignoring of the reasons why people legitimately complain about FF. It's not "endless waffle" - it's facts!

And if that's your reason for logging on, it says a lot. If you took off the blinkers and actually read the facts underlying the - admittedly somewhat emotive, borne out of frustration and disgust - posts, you might be in a position to comment objectively on the valid concerns at FF's behaviour.

rightwingdub

Lets see

FF-have nearly bankrupted the country with their braindead populism
FG-less corrupt than FF but utterly spinless and stand for nothing like FF
Labour- They will bankrupt the country if allowed into government, they are also a bunch of socialists.
Sinn fein- completely economically illiterate, marxist party. PC views on immigration
Greens- I'm not bothered about them.

Between a very bad bunch I'd reluctantly choose FF, I actually believe that Kenny would be worse than Cowen and I dread Labour in government.

yoshytoshy

We need a new party !

We're being told we can reinvent ourselves and achieve our goals. Yet we have politicians who can't get it together themselves:(

Seloth

I would only start to consider FG once Edna has left.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Tipp Man wrote: »

Where is FG today though? behind labour in the polls and their leader is only more slightly popular than the idiot who was such a large part of creating this mess

FF has never been in a more vunerable position than in the last 2 years and yet the public is not behind Kenny, still after all that FF have done the public are not behind him

There is no point in having decent policies if you can't get the bulk of the public to vote for you and that's Enda's big problem. FG need a man who will get votes and Enda is defo not that man, every single poll and the dogs on the street prove this

In a poll which survey a small proportion of the population in fairness.
He gets attacked for lack of conviction and deciciveness, he takes some then and still gets attacked.

If he had a neutral accent there'd be no problem.
And thats a fact, after reading this forum for the last few days and every other bit of info I could get my hands on, the only problem is his bogger accent and the fact that RTE can always find someone with a combover to shout his support.

And I'm from Mayo btw, some are happy, some not, there's not a universal joy for Kenny, its split like anywhere else in the country. But what has been universal was the OMFG to Mellotte coming out roaring 'up mayo!' and the gombeens outside his clinic that day. They aren't representative. And regardless, it's a 26 county thing, lets see how FG will do

sceptre

Raymond White Room wrote: »

If he had a neutral accent there'd be no problem.

It's nothing to do with his accent. His opposing numbers in FF over the past 8 years could hardly be considered to have neutral accents or anywhere near neutral accents.

norrie rugger

scr123 wrote: »

No doubt when its time to expose the Labour policies fraud there will be nothing of my lips left.

norrie rugger wrote: »

Please begin

No one else help him, let us see what he can do to the policies

I have noticed this a lot
People attack Labour for having no policy, non defined policy or bad policy but refuse to back up their arguments.

I ask YOU again, back up your statment of "policys fraud"

ei.sdraob

yoshytoshy

It's obvious enda kenny has a certain relationship among his own voters ,something we'll never probably see in the media. I don't trust the bloke at all now ,he seems to have the support of biggots.

norrie rugger

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Buying a home in Ireland is much more important, to people, than on mainland Europe.

Also If you have a good job then you should have the ability to buy your own home, as renting in Ireland is NOT a professional business. Most people who own properties bought "to sell when they go up invalue". Landlords in Ireland are now people who will sell for any good offer or builders who are renting out developments, riding out the recession.
Any sign of buildings recovery and Irish tennants will start to see their rented accomodation being sold from under them.

I have had to move more than once due to landlords selling up. If you have a young family I can not imagine that this is a good possibility.

Now the committment could be to get real and actual value into the Irish market. Perhaps by publishing selling prices or Estate Agent/Mortgage Broker/Lending/Planning reforms. If that is what comes out of that then MANY people in Ireland will be happy, as if we had that in the first place we would not be in the mess we are in NOW.

ei.sdraob

norrie rugger wrote: »

Buying a home in Ireland is much more important, to people, than on mainland Europe.

Also If you have a good job then you should have the ability to buy your own home, as renting in Ireland is NOT a professional business. Most people who own properties bought "to sell when they go up invalue". Landlords in Ireland are now people who will sell for any good offer or builders who are renting out developments, riding out the recession.
Any sign of buildings recovery and Irish tennants will start to see their rented accomodation being sold from under them.

I have had to move more than once due to landlords selling up. If you have a young family I can not imagine that this is a good possibility.

Now the committment could be to get real and actual value into the Irish market. Perhaps by publishing selling prices or Estate Agent/Mortgage Broker/Lending/Planning reforms. If that is what comes out of that then MANY people in Ireland will be happy, as if we had that in the first place we would not be in the mess we are in NOW.

And thats why the country is in such a ****ing mess, this national obsession with home ownership at all costs (or in case of Labour at the expense of someone else)

Instead of focusing on reforming rental laws, Labour focus more than the rest on the type of ****e that got us where we are

norrie rugger

ei.sdraob wrote: »

And thats why the country is in such a ****ing mess, this national obsession with home ownership at all costs (or in case of Labour at the expense of someone else)

Instead of focusing on reforming rental laws, Labour focus more than the rest on the type of ****e that got us where we are

Rental property in Ireland is NOT up a good standard, if someone can pay a mortgage for the same or LESS than the rent of a property (like happens in proper markets) and wants to buy a house, they should be allowed. If there had been correct zoning/planning/construction/lending regulation then we would not have this mess.
The fact the Irish people like to own property is NOT the issue.

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

And thats why the country is in such a ****ing mess, this national obsession with home ownership at all costs (or in case of Labour at the expense of someone else)

Instead of focusing on reforming rental laws, Labour focus more than the rest on the type of ****e that got us where we are

That's not strictly true, because - as norrie rugger pointed out - those who were in the market for a home viewed things differently.

Yes, they were pushed, price-wise, by the speculators and those who bought in to this ridiculous "property ladder / investment" idea.

But I would suggest that most people who wanted a home aren't as up-****s-creeks; maybe feeling the pinch if they've gotten hit with a pay cut or lost their jobs, but nowhere near as much as those who bought the whole fiasco hook, line and sinker.

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's not strictly true, because - as norrie rugger pointed out - those who were in the market for a home viewed things differently.

Yes, they were pushed, price-wise, by the speculators and those who bought in to this ridiculous "property ladder / investment" idea.

But I would suggest that most people who wanted a home aren't as up-****s-creeks; maybe feeling the pinch if they've gotten hit with a pay cut or lost their jobs, but nowhere near as much as those who bought the whole fiasco hook, line and sinker.

I know very well that some rental properties are ****

as I said instead of concentrating on home ownership why cant Labour (and other parties for that matter) bring in European style regulations into the rental sector instead of perpetrating the property pyramid scam, and concentrate on improving the situation for renters nationwide, anyways aint housing a local level concern?

Dont forget that alot of those people that got into housing now want their asses bailed out > by working (taxpaying) people who are themselves renting and hanging onto jobs

perverse or what

norrie rugger

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I know very well that some rental properties are ****

as I said instead of concentrating on home ownership why cant Labour (and other parties for that matter) bring in European style regulations into the rental sector instead of perpetrating the property pyramid scam, and concentrate on improving the situation for renters nationwide, anyways aint housing a local level concern?

Dont forget that alot of those people that got into housing now want their asses bailed out > by working (taxpaying) people who are themselves renting and hanging onto jobs

perverse or what

See I do not understand you

We have an extremely low population density, which should allow anyone to own land (if they actually wish)
IF the current government had held a tighter rein, on their banking/construction buddies, we would not have this situation.

There always HAS to be a property market, based on families who prefer to own their own property. Again, there is nothing wrong with a population of buyers. It allows for a more settled work force and a higher level of extension work/home improvement.
The problem is a system that rewarded the construction industry for throttling the market, with slow release of development land and allowing for estate agencies to con their buyers.

Both rental and purchasing need to be overhauled but saying that renting is the way we should focus on is silly.

norrie rugger

Oh and the Labour party (and others) can not bring in anything like a European system.

For that FF would be required to actually do something worthwhile. Turn completely against their development and banking cohorts.

I mean you can always elect Labour and then give them the opportunity to overhaul the system

ei.sdraob

norrie rugger wrote: »

See I do not understand you

We have an extremely low population density, which should allow anyone to own land (if they actually wish)

wtf

is someone preventing anyone from owning land?
you can get land @ 5K an acre here in west or less, and land with planning permission for 2-3 dozen K

or you want land to be taken of existing landowners/farmers and redistributed :eek: ****ing hell Stalin must be spinning in his grave

norrie rugger wrote: »

IF the current government had held a tighter rein, on their banking/construction buddies, we would not have this situation.

And Labour would do things differently how? the brochure I linked to wants to continue with this property pyramid madness

norrie rugger wrote: »

There always HAS to be a property market, based on families who prefer to own their own property.

Nothing stopping families owning a property, What Labour propose is taxing one group in order to give other groups housing

norrie rugger wrote: »

It allows for a more settled work force

the workforce being tied down by housing is a good thing?

norrie rugger wrote: »

a higher level of extension work/home improvement.

straight from Fianna Fail playbook, as I thought Labour are nothing more than Fianna Fail reinvented

norrie rugger wrote: »

The problem is a system that rewarded the construction industry for throttling the market, with slow release of development land and allowing for estate agencies to con their buyers.

And Labour want to continue to pour oil into the fire

norrie rugger wrote: »

Both rental and purchasing need to be overhauled but saying that renting is the way we should focus on is silly.

im saying the parties are to obsessed about property ownership and should instead focus attention on rental related laws, which need an overhaul badly

ei.sdraob

If you want more people to buy a home


* Stop the NAMA madness, and allow the market to find the bottom, quick
* Stop all the tax concessions
* Stop taxing them so much (Labour with tax tax tax)

Pride Fighter

norrie rugger wrote: »

I have noticed this a lot
People attack Labour for having no policy, non defined policy or bad policy but refuse to back up their arguments.

I ask YOU again, back up your statment of "policys fraud"

Labour have published 45 policy documents and 25 private members bills. There is policies aplenty.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

That document is not Labour policy. It is from before the last general election and is an old document. If someone put up a link to an old Fianna Fail or Fine Gael policy document they would be rightly castigated. Does not happen with Labour though.

norrie rugger

Pride Fighter wrote: »

That document is not Labour policy. It is from before the last general election and is an old document. If someone put up a link to an old Fianna Fail or Fine Gael policy document they would be rightly castigated. Does not happen with Labour though.

Was thinking that also.