Can't fill a vacant job position, you are NOT qualified

jayok wrote: »

This doesn't appears to be unique to IT, but as I speak to colleagues in other industries (accounting, etc) they are suffering the same. Plenty of people, but none actually qualified.

There's a half-and-half problem here. Employers think that because there's a recession on they can offer much lower salaries and get away with it.

Qualifications prove that at some point you took a test in a subject and passed it. It doesn't guarantee that they remember anything about that subject. If one candidate had six years experience working as a network tech, but no certifications, and another had a CCNA but hadn't looked at a router in two years, I would take the first candidate over the second; hands down.
If you had two candidates with equally long experience except one was certified and the other wasn't, I would still only give him a slightly higher rating on account of the fact that someone bothered to pay for him to go take an exam.

If you're getting 1000 CVs from people with 6+ years experience and you think that none of them are qualified for the job, then you're clearly looking for someone with specialist skills and €35k just won't cut it. You need to attract them from another job and offering average industrial wage is not going to do that.

Employers, you are NOT as attractive as you think.

this thread reminds me of a Bernard Manning joke......

an irishman goes looking for a job on a building site in london..

he approaches the gaffer and asks is there any jobs going??

the gaffer says yes whats your name ...

the irishman says Paddy Mulligan

the gaffer says how do you spell that??

the irishman says stick you job up your arse!!

you want a CCNA/MCSE qualified level of candidate for "some IT work" and are only offering 35k?

jayok wrote: »

So because you don't meet the minimum requirements for the job, the post is retarded?

If employees are that outstanding, the pursuit of qualification are normally not an issue.

It's your attitude as an employer IMO.

So even though I have 11+ years experience in IT, a couple of MCP's, but don't have the academic background of a degree etc, you're gonna throw my CV out..?
Me thinks you have lots to learn about how the IT industry works.

I knew a guy back in the late '80s who had a very good degree in electronics (with masters iirc), who had never touched a soldering iron in his life and amusingly burned the palm of his hand on his first attempt at actually making something that he had designed on paper.

And after he spent an entire week trying to get it working, I was given the job and did it in ~15 minutes.... At the time I was in my leaving cert year and this was a part time job for me. He got sacked after a few months because he was hopelessly inept.

Some degrees lend themselves to getting people trained in their forthcoming jobs and having a good understanding of how to go about doing things. Other degrees test how good the students memory is.

If someone has been doing a job in a demanding environment (possibly on shift) then usually there is buggerall opportunity/management foresight to get the employees trained.

Also, its not that much of a leap of imagination to see managements thinking "They are doing the job now, why train them because they will only move on to better jobs elsewhere and I will have to spend time finding their replacement"

jayok wrote: »

I agree, I had envisaged someone with say 2 years experience AND some qualification (e.g. MCPs, CCNAs, etc) filling the role. At this target market I imagined that €35k was fair. I don't see the position being worth more than that.

I've seen job posts like this before I think they're a little bizarre.
Yes, €35k is a good salary for someone who's two years in the workforce.

The problem is that you're looking for certifications from people who are barely out of college. Graduates don't leave college and instantly go and get certified. They almost all end up working in some support role for at least a year before a company moves them up to admin or something similar. At some point after that the company then encourages them to take exams and go and get certifications. But 90% of the time, they'll have been working with the technology for a number of years before they get the certification.

I'm aware that some companies take it fresh IT recruits, sit them in front of a mountain of books and get them to sit 10 certificate exams before they even look at a computer, but these are few and far between.

Grads and young workers can't afford the €1k+ it costs to train for and get each cert, so you'll find very few people so fresh out of college *and* with industry qualifications.

I'm a little bit surprised that you're turning down people with 6+ years experience in what you're looking for, and at the same time saying that you'd be happy with someone who has only 2 years experience, so long as they're certified. I think you're insane for not leaping on someone with the experience if you can get them at the price you're offering.

A good recruiter is always flexible, and always watches out for talent in odd places. Rarely does one find cookie cutter talent in a CV.

In all my experience of hiring people and building teams - and I have a lot as a business manager over many years and in seperate industries - one can never predict with 100% accuracy the profile of the person they need. You can generalize, but it looks a lot different when you've got your shortlist in for second interviews...

I think OP, that at this point you would be wise to go back and take the best looking of the candidates with the most interesting looking (note, I didn't say "most" period) experience, and go talk to them.

Somebody's motivation tends to come across in a chat, not a CV onto which you impart your own predefined paradigms.

Just in my experience...

Einstein wrote: »

Because this is thread is in AH and not work and empoyment, i'm gonna go right out and say that post is quite retarded, and as Biggins mentioned earlier, you have no idea what your missing out on regarding the possible employees you've overlooked.

No wonder the OP has a problem filling the vacancy with an attitude like this. Imagine all the good people that have been overlooked because of his blinkered view.

jayok wrote: »

So we've a job position available in our company I'm trying to fill. Nothing too hectic, salary circa €35k. It's in IT and we're looking for somebody with a couple of years experience and some qualifications.

Now, the thing is, this position has been advertised for the last two months and we've about 1,000 CVs in, but the quality of candidates out there is extremely poor.

What we've been getting is plenty of people with say 4-8 years "experience" in the relevant industry, but no formal qualifications. For example, there's one individual with 6+ years in a telecoms company, but left school and did no further education (be it degree or professional). This is a joke, it seemed in the boom years, jobs were so plentiful that nobody bothered to progress in qualifications, etc. Even now, some of the candidates are not even looking to progress themselves.

This doesn't appears to be unique to IT, but as I speak to colleagues in other industries (accounting, etc) they are suffering the same. Plenty of people, but none actually qualified.

So people, if you don't hold any further qualifications beyond your school or degree, get moving.

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Rant over.

While i worked in IT for years (Sys admin/desktop support stuff) I found it difficult financially and timewise to upskill. Employer wouldnt pay for it, so would have to take holidays and pay myself.
Now that i was redundant (now working p/t) I can upskill, and am doing so. We arent all bad, even if we dont have diplomas!

jayok wrote: »

So people, if you don't hold any further qualifications beyond your school or degree, get moving.

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Rant over.

I find your rant very insulting, who are you to think I should be going out and getting another qualification when I already have qualifications that are no use to me. You should of researced wheter experience or a qualification is considered more important befor you ranted, if you did you'd realise that experience IS more important to the vast majority of employers.

I know loads of people working in IT and other industries where most jobs didn't care about the qualification, the experience was all that mattered and you weren't much use if you didn't have relevent experience

I personally made the decision to get a job with a diploma and not bother with a degree and it's worked out well for me, I'm currently surrounded by people who have degrees that they think are useless