Can't fill a vacant job position, you are NOT qualified

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:21PM #1

So we've a job position available in our company I'm trying to fill. Nothing too hectic, salary circa €35k. It's in IT and we're looking for somebody with a couple of years experience and some qualifications.

Now, the thing is, this position has been advertised for the last two months and we've about 1,000 CVs in, but the quality of candidates out there is extremely poor.

What we've been getting is plenty of people with say 4-8 years "experience" in the relevant industry, but no formal qualifications. For example, there's one individual with 6+ years in a telecoms company, but left school and did no further education (be it degree or professional). This is a joke, it seemed in the boom years, jobs were so plentiful that nobody bothered to progress in qualifications, etc. Even now, some of the candidates are not even looking to progress themselves.

This doesn't appears to be unique to IT, but as I speak to colleagues in other industries (accounting, etc) they are suffering the same. Plenty of people, but none actually qualified.

So people, if you don't hold any further qualifications beyond your school or degree, get moving.

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Rant over.

Fuhrer · 11-06-2010 12:24PM

Maybe you should be more specific with your Ad.

Microsoft Certificate in etc.
Degree with at least 2.1 etc.

Einstein · 11-06-2010 12:25PM

IT qualifications aint all that, depending on the role.

Unless its something like programming role, where qualification is pretty much def needed.

Ive interviewed people for contract roles to replace me at times, and I've always gone for the people with the experience and a couple of specific couple of self study exams (MCSE etc) over the computer degree people.

Sanjuro · 11-06-2010 12:25PM

Wow. Even in terms of AH generalisations, that one's pretty spectacular.

Beanstalk · 11-06-2010 12:26PM

The reality of it is though, most qualifications fail miserably in the face of experience. Its too bad people have to pay out money now on silly courses to get jobs.

danbohan · 11-06-2010 12:26PM

jayok wrote: »

So we've a job position available in our company I'm trying to fill. Nothing too hectic, salary circa €35k. It's in IT and we're looking for somebody with a couple of years experience and some qualifications.

Now, the thing is, this position has been advertised for the last two months and we've about 1,000 CVs in, but the quality of candidates out there is extremely poor.

What we've been getting is plenty of people with say 4-8 years "experience" in the relevant industry, but no formal qualifications. For example, there's one individual with 6+ years in a telecoms company, but left school and did no further education (be it degree or professional). This is a joke, it seemed in the boom years, jobs were so plentiful that nobody bothered to progress in qualifications, etc. Even now, some of the candidates are not even looking to progress themselves.

This doesn't appears to be unique to IT, but as I speak to colleagues in other industries (accounting, etc) they are suffering the same. Plenty of people, but none actually qualified.

So people, if you don't hold any further qualifications beyond your school or degree, get moving.

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Rant over.

their is a bit of an obsession in ireland with qualifications , what about doing a good job ? , experience etc etc , its part same smug mentality that has landed the Celtic tiger cubs in the biggest sh1t in Europe if not the world , get over yourselves .

Fuhrer · 11-06-2010 12:27PM

danbohan wrote: »

their is a bit of an obsession in ireland with qualifications , what about doing a good job ? , experience etc etc , its part same smug mentality that has landed the Celtic tiger cubs in the biggest sh1t in Europe if not the world , get over yourselves .

Because "I do a good job" is a lot hard skill to market?

Wazdakka · 11-06-2010 12:28PM

jayok wrote: »

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Give it a few years..
We're about to become one of the most overqualified work forces in the world.
With all the unemployment and such, loads of people have gone back to college "To get that masters they always wanted" or whatever..

In 5 years time the guy cleaning the underside of the jacks in coppers is going to have a bloody doctorate in theoretical physics.

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:29PM

Einstein wrote: »

IT qualifications aint all that depending on the role.

Ive interviewed people for contract roles to replace me at times, and I've always gone for the people with the experience and a couple of specific couple of self study exams (MCSE etc) over the computer degree people.

It's infrastructure stuff, so MCSE, CCNA, CCSE, etc.

The purpose of the qualifications is two fold. One to demonstrate ability and two to demonstrate motivation.

Take the example of the guy with 6 years experience in telecoms. No academic or formal qualification achieved in that time. What do that say to a prospective employer? FWIW I interviewed the guy and basically during the time he went merrily along doing his task. However, he didn't attempt to move-up or progress, just happily filling out his day.

@Furher - the ad specifies that such are desirable items.

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:30PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

Give it a few years..
We're about to become one of the most overqualified work forces in the world.

Great, if we do. But that's a few years and will hamper growth.

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:31PM

Beanstalk wrote: »

The reality of it is though, most qualifications fail miserably in the face of experience. Its too bad people have to pay out money now on silly courses to get jobs.

Agreed. But you will need both to succeed in this market.

Biggins · 11-06-2010 12:31PM

I've hired and worked with people with good certs, etc and they have turned out to have poor practicable ability to use those skills in real life situations and under pressure.
I have also hired folk with same certs and they could do the job standing on their head with high class.

I've hired folk with little certs and a lot of on the job, years of hand-on experience too and they run away with a show of job excellence.

My point: Certs while are a good easy indicator at start-up of initial assessments - they shouldn't be the "be and end all" essential criteria in a lot of cases for filling a position.
To do so, is shooting one self in the foot from the get-go.

OP, you could be losing out BIG time and I also disagree with your latter off-hand comment.

soups05 · 11-06-2010 12:34PM

or to put it another way, some of us were too busy doing the job to get the certs needed to allow us to do the job. our employers could not attract the poeple they needed cos they all had good well paid jobs so us lowly thickos were thrust into it and expected to cope.

now of course there are lots of unemployed around so suddenly it seems i may need to take a paycut as i am not qualified to do the job i have been doing for ten years.

sorry op that ^^^^ was a flashback to jan 09 when i had to take redundancy cos my company outsourced to holland. seems they have better educated people over there who will work for less than me.

luckly i had a second job at the weekends which quickly became my main income.

before ranting about the irish being un-ed-u-may-cated just think that sometimes it the fault of employers who prefer to have a job done than to have to wait for someone with the right degree etc to come along.

11-06-2010 12:39PM

I don't understand the disdain for qualifications in Ireland. How else can you show that you can do something? You might have 10 years experience but you could have been sitting on your arse drinking tea the whole time. You can't expect people to hire based on the fact you said you can do X,Y and Z. The qualification might be a piece of paper but it demonstrates that courses have been passed. I need various professional qualifications in my field, usually software related ones, just did one last week in fact. I have lots of experience using the software and know it inside out, but I need that qualification on my CV if I expect anyone to hire me. Otherwise I could just be bullsh*tting. Anyone can say they can do something.

Chips Lovell · 11-06-2010 12:40PM

Maybe the people with qualifications are in better paid jobs elsewhere?

ballsymchugh · 11-06-2010 12:40PM

Biggins wrote: »

I've hired and worked with people with good certs, etc and they have turned out to have poor practicable ability to use those skills in real life situations and under pressure.
I have also hired folk with same certs and they could do the job standing on their head with high class.

I've hired folk with little certs and a lot of on the job, years of hand-on experience too and they run away with a show of job excellence.

My point: Certs while are a good easy indicator at start-up of initial assessments - they shouldn't be the "be and end all" in a lot of cases for filling a position.
To do so, is shooting one self in the foot from the get-go.

OP, you could be losing out BIG time and I also disagree with your latter off-hand comment.

aha! have you found out now. so you employ people to go through boards and have a response for everything that you're interested in? that would explain how you manage to post so feckin often!!
and they're probably all french supermodels too. max age 25. years of hands on experience indeed!

Einstein · 11-06-2010 12:40PM

jayok wrote: »

It's infrastructure stuff, so MCSE, CCNA, CCSE, etc.

The purpose of the qualifications is two fold. One to demonstrate ability and two to demonstrate motivation.

Take the example of the guy with 6 years experience in telecoms. No academic or formal qualification achieved in that time. What do that say to a prospective employer? FWIW I interviewed the guy and basically during the time he went merrily along doing his task. However, he didn't attempt to move-up or progress, just happily filling out his day.

I think you need to open your eyes a little..

Lets look at it this way, a person in the IT game for 8 or 9 years with the odd exam, relevant to his specialty behind him, probably has more interest in the particular job he's doing, compared to the freshman from college with the degree, who was forced to put something down on his CAO form, and possibly ended up getting a place in a course which may not even have been his first choice...

I have no degree or "formal" qualification. Does that mean I'm lazy and have no goals to progress?

Your generalising kinda sucks tbh :rolleyes:

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:41PM

soups05 wrote: »

sorry op that ^^^^ was a flashback to jan 09 when i had to take redundancy cos my company outsourced to holland. seems they have better educated people over there who will work for less than me.

luckly i had a second job at the weekends which quickly became my main income.

before ranting about the irish being un-ed-u-may-cated just think that sometimes it the fault of employers who prefer to have a job done than to have to wait for someone with the right degree etc to come along.

It's easy to blame the employers and indeed some employers have failed in this regard for providing opportunity for employees to upskill. But ultimately it's the responsibility of the individual to progress themselves.

The outsourcing of your job to Holland is an example of the problem.

Really, what grating me now is that some people are still not attempting to seek any further qualifications. Belief that my X years or experience should suffice.

danbohan · 11-06-2010 12:42PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

Because "I do a good job" is a lot hard skill to market?

i tell you one thing friend , i fired more guys with qualifications than guys without , not saying they are not needed they certainly are but they are not be all and end all

Chairman Meow · 11-06-2010 12:42PM

Im easily qulaified for that :cool:

pm plz

KingLoser · 11-06-2010 12:43PM

7 years IT experience, no formal qualifications. Have to laugh at some of the things the graduates in my company do.

Your thread is kinda broke OP.

edit: unless an A+ counts?

Banned Account · 11-06-2010 12:43PM

jayok wrote: »

So we've a job position available in our company I'm trying to fill. Nothing too hectic, salary circa €35k. It's in IT and we're looking for somebody with a couple of years experience and some qualifications.

Now, the thing is, this position has been advertised for the last two months and we've about 1,000 CVs in, but the quality of candidates out there is extremely poor.

What we've been getting is plenty of people with say 4-8 years "experience" in the relevant industry, but no formal qualifications. For example, there's one individual with 6+ years in a telecoms company, but left school and did no further education (be it degree or professional). This is a joke, it seemed in the boom years, jobs were so plentiful that nobody bothered to progress in qualifications, etc. Even now, some of the candidates are not even looking to progress themselves.

This doesn't appears to be unique to IT, but as I speak to colleagues in other industries (accounting, etc) they are suffering the same. Plenty of people, but none actually qualified.

So people, if you don't hold any further qualifications beyond your school or degree, get moving.

Ireland, you are NOT as qualified as you think

Rant over.

Two months without filling it and you have time to post on Boards.ie - sounds like a pretty unnecessary position to be.

Chairman Meow · 11-06-2010 12:45PM

Wait a minute, the op says 'nothing too hectic, couple years experience, couple of qualifications', then busts out thats you need an MSCE, CCNA, and CCSE??
Youre having a laugh mate, dont think you even know what you want in this job

Biggins · 11-06-2010 12:46PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

aha! have you found out now. so you employ people to go through boards and have a response for everything that you're interested in? that would explain how you manage to post so feckin often!!
and they're probably all french supermodels too. max age 25. years of hands on experience indeed!

1. Get that snotty chip off your shoulder, it does you no credit.

2. I've worked damn hard (just like many here) for years to create businesses and now I am able to take a back seat and relax a bit more. Managers/on-site supervisors are great things you know.
Sorry if that irks you.

swe_fi · 11-06-2010 12:47PM

I have hired people based on 5 min telephone interviews

I have hired people based on 3 extensive interviews (because I was forced to do this)

It is almost impossible to tell if a person will be good for you, qualifications or not.

jayok · 11-06-2010 12:47PM

Einstein wrote: »

I think you need to open your eyes a little..

Lets look at it this way, a person in the IT game for 8 or 9 years with the odd exam, relevant to his specialty behind him, probably has more interest in the particular job he's doing, compared to the freshman from college with the degree, who was forced to put something down on his CAO form, and possibly ended up getting a place in a course which may not even have been his first choice...

I have no degree or "formal" qualification. Does that mean I'm lazy and have no goals to progress?

Your generalising kinda sucks tbh :rolleyes:

I don't know you therefore I have no idea what your motivation or goals are.

But if you were applying for this job and completed no exams, unless your CV was outstanding, you'd be skipped, yes.

ballsymchugh · 11-06-2010 12:50PM

Biggins wrote: »

1. Get that snotty chip off your shoulder, it does you no credit.

2. I've worked damn hard (just like many here) for years to create businesses and now I am able to take a back seat and relax a bit more. Managers/on-site supervisors are great things you know.
Sorry if that irks you.

woah, relax biggins. i have no chips on either shoulder. maybe a misunderstood sense of humour?!
like you, i've worked damn hard to get where i am now. still have a bit to go before i can take a back seat but i know i'll get there too.

Einstein · 11-06-2010 12:52PM

jayok wrote: »

The outsourcing of your job to Holland is an example of the problem.

Or maybe it was cheaper labour?

jayok wrote: »

Really, what grating me now is that some people are still not attempting to seek any further qualifications. Belief that my X years or experience should suffice.

Why does that grate you?
Are you comparing potential employees to yourself and if they dont have enough letters after their name they havn't got the motivation or the will to do a god job and move up in the world?
News flash. Some people are quite happy workin for the man.

Faith+1 · 11-06-2010 12:52PM

Wazdakka wrote: »

In 5 years time the guy cleaning the underside of the jacks in coppers is going to have a bloody doctorate in theoretical physics.

Who say's they haven't one already! :rolleyes:

Einstein · 11-06-2010 12:54PM

jayok wrote: »

...
But if you were applying for this job and completed no exams, unless your CV was outstanding, you'd be skipped, yes.

Because this is thread is in AH and not work and empoyment, i'm gonna go right out and say that post is quite retarded, and as Biggins mentioned earlier, you have no idea what your missing out on regarding the possible employees you've overlooked.

prinz · 11-06-2010 12:55PM

danbohan wrote: »

its part same smug mentality that has landed the Celtic tiger cubs in the biggest sh1t in Europe if not the world , get over yourselves .

I think you'll find the 'Celtic Tiger Cubs' were for the most part chancers who thought they could turn their hand to anything and make easy money. A huge amount of my LC year would have gone from school straight to the workforce where there was loads of money to be made. They are the real 'tiger cubs'.

Can't fill a vacant job position, you are NOT qualified

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