f-class

tommyboy26 · 05-04-2010 09:37PM #1

just wondering if anyone can give me details on the rules to f- class as im going to start shooting it and need to know the rules.

tommy

Cass · 05-04-2010 10:25PM

F-Open - Any rifle, up to 8mm in caliber, with any mag scope and not exceeding 22lbs in weight. A front rest and rear bag for support.

FTR - Rifle of .308( & .223) caliber. Rear bag and bipod (no rest). Any mag scope and total weight not to exceed 18.18 lbs.

PS - There is a muzzle velocity limit on the ammo you can use, but i cannot remember if it is a limit or an actual rule. It is 3200fps if i'm not mistaken.

tommyboy26 · 05-04-2010 10:30PM

is 8mm bigger than .308?

tommy

jwshooter · 05-04-2010 10:42PM

tommyboy26 wrote: »

is 8mm bigger than .308?

tommy

do u have a 308

tommyboy26 · 05-04-2010 10:50PM

yeah i have a .308

Cass · 05-04-2010 10:51PM

tommyboy26 wrote:

is 8mm bigger than .308

Yes.

thedragon · 11-04-2010 11:25PM

Why is it called F class, is there an A, B, C, and D class etc. Im probably going to be slated for asking this question.

It wasn't me! · 11-04-2010 11:57PM

thedragon wrote: »

Why is it called F class, is there an A, B, C, and D class etc. Im probably going to be slated for asking this question.

After its originator, George Farquharson.

Cass · 12-04-2010 12:02PM

Just to elaborate on It wasn't me's post.

An extract from the F-class info website.

F-Class was started in Canada. It was started as a fun class. In the beginning, it was mostly old time shooters, who put a scope and bipod on their rifle and shot along with the rest of the TR shooters. Mr. Farquharson came up with the idea of F-Class to enable he and other older long-range shooters to continue shooting along side of the people they had been competing with for most of their lives. Farquharson was a Canadian who shot what in most of the world is known as Fullbore Rifle. Fullbore (known as long-range or Palma shooting here in the States) is shot prone with a sling and iron sights, using a .308 Winchester and a bullet weight of no more than 156 grains.

Farquharson figured, that older shooters would be able to continue long-range shooting longer if their eyesight and bodies could be augmented by allowing them to use a scope and a rest to shoot. He convinced the Canadian NRA (the DCRA) to approve his idea and F-Class was named after him. F-Class migrated to the rest of the British Commonwealth and also to Germany, France, the Netherlands and the USA.

wolfsshadow · 08-06-2010 02:54PM

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

It wasn't me! · 08-06-2010 02:58PM

wolfsshadow wrote: »

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

Out to 1000 yards, so no, a .220 Swift or a .22-250 just isn't going to make the grade.

dCorbus · 08-06-2010 03:20PM

+1

but also,

a .220 Swift or a .22-250 just isn't going to make the grade

Not only won't it make the grade, but it would have to be shot in the F-Open Class, and not F/TR Class (with that class' restrictions to .308W and .223 only), and against the "exotics" in F-Open, a .220 and .22-250 would be out of the running entirely IMHO. So, as opposed to making the grade, it wouldn't even get into the exam hall!:rolleyes::D

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

Ranges: In Ireland all F-Class shooting is typically done at ranges of 500yds, 600yds, 800yds, 900yds, 1000yds, and hopefully soon at 1100 & 1200yds.

Typical Calibres: For F/TR Class, either .308W or .223, nothing else allowed in the restricted F/TR class. Although, a .308 would be a better choice than the .223 for the longer ranges IMHO.

Not as familiar with the F-Open Class, but typical calibres would be 6.5x55, 7mmWSM, etc. and other lovely and exotic beasts.

need to know the rules

You'll find all the rules here: ICFRA F-Class Rulebook

Hope that's of some more help to you - and if I've got anything wrong or misinterpreted the rules etc., Make sure to let me know!:D;)

wolfsshadow · 09-06-2010 11:18AM

ok i know this is like asking how long is a piece of string but do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range and what would be a suitable rifle/calibre for someone on a tight budget, i don't expect to be competative but would just like to get started and enjoy a day on the range

tomcat220t · 09-06-2010 01:36PM

The 6.5x55 is a good caliber for stalking and some range time

.139 laupa has a very good B/C for target shooting and the norma 120gr for stalking,imo.

It wasn't me! · 09-06-2010 01:42PM

If I were to take one for both, it'd have to be the .308 Win. Hands down. Also allows you to shoot in the F/TR class, which is designed for cheaper and easier entries.

dCorbus · 09-06-2010 06:10PM

do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range and what would be a suitable rifle/calibre for someone on a tight budget, i don't expect to be competative but would just like to get started and enjoy a day on the range

Tricky one to answer with any definity.
I'd agree with It wasn't me! about the .308 being a better calibre choice for both hunting and F/TR - but it all depends on what you're hoping to do most of your shooting with and what you plan to hunt, as a 308 is a wee bit overkill for rabbits and perhaps foxes (AFAIK, but not a hunter so I'll let the lads advise you better on the quarry v's calibre choice issue).

A hunting rifle in 308 or 223 etc would be perfectly good as primarily a hunting gun, used occasionally on the range for a spot of zeroing and target practice.

Conversely, a target rifle in 308 or 223 would be better as as primarily a target gun, used occasionally in the field for a spot of hunting.

The main problem / difference is that a hunting rifle's barrel is generally too light to stand up to the 15 - 20 shot strings needed in F-class target shooting, whilst a target rifle is generally too heavy to lug around the fields all day.

However, there are some rifles in 308 and 223 which will do both jobs quite well and as such would be good for hunting and reasonably good for target shooting (with a varmint-type or bull barrel): Remmy700, Tikka t3 TAC, Sako TRG22 (although that's a bit of a hefty beast, approx 14.5-15lb with scope and bipod, and I wouldn't fancy lugging that up hills and dales myself), are just a couple which spring to my mind.

The 6.5x55 is a good caliber for stalking and some range time

I agree, but a lighter barrelled 6.5x55 hunting rifle will drive you demented in a long string shooting 15 - 20 rounds per detail, as opposed to the max 2 - 5 shots per day (?) I'd assume a stalking rifle needs to deal with on a day in the field. Maybe wrong on this - ezridax may be able to explain better as I think he had this issue come up a while back?

If I were to take one for both, it'd have to be the .308 Win. Hands down. Also allows you to shoot in the F/TR class, which is designed for cheaper and easier entries.

Easier, It wasn't me! ?:eek::D
I do hope you mean "ease of entry" into the sport and are not implying that F/TR is in some way easier than F-Open, god forbid? :eek::rolleyes: Coz, that's a whole can-a-worms that should best stay nice and shut!!!!:D:D:rolleyes:

But as a far as ease-of-entry goes and the accessibility of getting started in target shooting, the .308 is the only way to go (Very much IMHO).

wolfsshadow, could I ask what rifle and calibre you are shooting with now?

It wasn't me! · 09-06-2010 06:15PM

I meant it in the ease-of-entry sense.

dCorbus · 09-06-2010 06:18PM

Of course! That's what I'd assumed you meant!:D;)

And on that, you're 100% correct (IMvHO).

Cass · 09-06-2010 09:33PM

The simple answer (IMO) is there is no such thing as a rifle that suits both target and hunting needs equally and perfectly.

Yes some will do both, but you will never win in the target section and the draw backs of having a target orientated rifle for hunting has already been covered by dCorbus (weight mainly).

The only viable option may be a .223 cal rifle. Something with a longer barrel than most (in excess of 26") with maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist. I cannot vouch for such a rifle for target work as mine is 1:12 and purely hunting. It will hold a group at 100yds and 200 yds. At 300 the group widens and as i've never shot past this i do not know the effects after 300. You can though take it and head out into the field for a spot of vermin control. Rabbits, foxes, etc. The rifle would weigh 9lbs or so max. The recoil from a .223 is, well, nothing really.

If its deer you are after then the options become a little more varied and for this purpose i would definitely take IWM's advice and go the .308 route. There are a few rifles out there that can be bought as a hunting rifle, but carries an inherent accuracy that will see you good for at least 300yds. For someone that has not shot target before i would recommend starting from 100yds and working out to 300yds before progressing further. Learn hold, follow through, recoil, breathing, mirage, wind reading, etc.

My advice here is the same as it always is in situations like this. Go visit a range and see all the different rifles available there. Talk to the shooters. Ask for pros and cons of each rifle. See the actual results of the rifles at the different distances, rather than someone "exaggerating" their results because they like the rifle, and when you buy it realise it doesn't suit.

Where abouts in the country are you? May be able to recommend a dealer or two to visit.

PS - Not trying to talk down to you and if you have experience in either target shooting or hunting then i apologise. I am answering as though you are a newbie.

Tackleberrywho · 09-06-2010 09:51PM

ezridax wrote: »

The simple answer (IMO) is there is no such thing as a rifle that suits both target and hunting needs equally and perfectly.

Yes some will do both, but you will never win in the target section and the draw backs of having a target orientated rifle for hunting has already been covered by dCorbus (weight mainly).

The only viable option may be a .223 cal rifle. Something with a longer barrel than most (in excess of 26") with maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist. I cannot vouch for such a rifle for target work as mine is 1:12 and purely hunting. It will hold a group at 100yds and 200 yds. At 300 the group widens and as i've never shot past this i do not know the effects after 300. You can though take it and head out into the field for a spot of vermin control. Rabbits, foxes, etc. The rifle would weigh 9lbs or so max. The recoil from a .223 is, well, nothing really.

I hear ya Ezri,
I hope to have a 28" 1/10 .223 soon. I have not shot a bunny more than 368; But the bunnies do not always be at the range most varminters want when conditions are perfect.

I'd like to have a go at F-Class, not to win; but just to see what is the best I can do.

If going the stalking root the heavy barrreled .308 would annoy you.

Not impossible mind you, depends if their is a lot of walking in the hunting area.

I do believe the two calibres can be reasonably good at both. I have shot deer with a 1910 swedish mauser, and that was heavy long rifle.

But for comfort I think the stalking rifle has to be nimble.
I have left bunnies behind on the other side of a river or ditch that was dangerous or awkward to cross.

I would be not as reluctant to ford a stream if it meant bambie was on the other side.

Maybe we need a new class? Varmint class or V-Class? Akin to the sporter .22lr class Vs .22 TR class if i am naming them correctly.

Cass · 09-06-2010 11:38PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.........But the bunnies do not always be at the range most varminters want when conditions are perfect.

Don't know if i'm reading this wrong, but i don't get the point you're making. Are you saying they're too far?

I'd like to have a go at F-Class, not to win; but just to see what is the best I can do.

Only two ways to do it. A .308 or .223. .308 is the most popular at the moment so go buy one and get shooting.

If going the stalking root the heavy barrreled .308 would annoy you.

Not really. With the proper harness/sling although slightly heavy no rifle is uncarriable (if thats a word).

I do believe the two calibres can be reasonably good at both.

Which two?

I have shot deer with a 1910 swedish mauser, and that was heavy long rifle.

And how did it handle on the target range?

But for comfort I think the stalking rifle has to be nimble.

Again though the poster was looking to see if any rifle performed both functions well/good.

I have left bunnies behind on the other side of a river or ditch that was dangerous or awkward to cross.

I would be not as reluctant to ford a stream if it meant bambie was on the other side.

Sorry not following you on this one. The question was about a rifle with good to excellent dual performance.

Maybe we need a new class? Varmint class or V-Class? Akin to the sporter .22lr class Vs .22 TR class if i am naming them correctly.

A sporter .22 does both hunting and target work. Neither of them excellently, but both quite well. Even if you build a custom rifle, and its light enough to carry hunting and can perform well at target work, it will still be beaten by lads with dedicated target rifles. Honestly (and if someone can prove me wrong here, great) there isn't a rifle around that can go out to the range shoot and win competitions at up to 1,000yds and then be carried into the field and used for game hunting.

It wasn't me! · 09-06-2010 11:44PM

I agree with ezri on this. A hunting rifle is built one way, a target rifle another. I don't even like varmint type builds for hunting unless I'm certain all the shots will be prone or off a very solid rest. Would hate to take a standing shot in the field with a 26" heavy barrel, especially if I then had a mod hanging off it. On the target range, that's absolutely standard fare, but then I'm not wearing canvas and leather out hunting, and I'm not wearing hiking boots and my hunting gear on the range, so the equipment is different. If you want to try and find both, you're going to be consistently disappointed.

Tackleberrywho · 10-06-2010 12:13AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I agree with ezri on this. A hunting rifle is built one way, a target rifle another. I don't even like varmint type builds for hunting unless I'm certain all the shots will be prone or off a very solid rest. Would hate to take a standing shot in the field with a 26" heavy barrel, especially if I then had a mod hanging off it. On the target range, that's absolutely standard fare, but then I'm not wearing canvas and leather out hunting, and I'm not wearing hiking boots and my hunting gear on the range, so the equipment is different. If you want to try and find both, you're going to be consistently disappointed.

I can hit bunnies from the shoulder @ 100 with the mod on, I was doing a bad job of making a point, a heavy long rifle is a cu*t going through ditches etc which stalking for me involves a lot of.

The swedish mauser I had was as accurate as a sako 75 i replaced it with, no difference. But from the shoulder the mauser was a heavy hoor and hard to stabilize, and it could not easily take a bipod.

So I would not want a dual purpose rifle if i wanted to win comps or have a perfect stalking rifle.

i do a lot of 4x4, but road tyres in the field are no good and field tyres on the road no good. But I would still go with field tyres rather than get bogged with road tyres.

Equally I would have to go with two rifles. If the OP was only shooting target for craic and only a few deer then maybe a slightly heavy barrel would be acceptable.

My varmint is 1 stone with everything on, it would be pretty ok at target I think as groups are good.
It is by no means a handy rifle though, many lads would not put up with the weight.

So it all really depends on the op tolerances if he is well built a heavy rifle no issue, if not it may be.

Only the user can decide that one.
I hope that this somehow clarifies things, hard to concentrate and watch Angelina jolie in Alexander

Cass · 10-06-2010 12:41AM

wolfsshadow wrote: »

....... do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range .............

This was the question.

Tackleberywho wrote:

I can hit bunnies from the shoulder @ 100 with the mod on, I was doing a bad job of making a point, a heavy long rifle is a cu*t going through ditches etc which stalking for me involves a lot of.

The swedish mauser I had was as accurate as a sako 75 i replaced it with, no difference. But from the shoulder the mauser was a heavy hoor and hard to stabilize, and it could not easily take a bipod.

So a rifle that is okay/good at both, but does not excel at either is not really what the poster was looking for. Now i could be way of the mark. Maybe he is happy with adequate. As a rifle does not exist that would be excellent for both then the point is kinda moot.

So I would not want a dual purpose rifle if i wanted to win comps or have a perfect stalking rifle

Quite the opposite. If they invented a rifle that could shoot with the best or win at 1,200 yds then be light enough to carry all day on a stalk i would buy it in a heartbeat. I haven't seen or heard of one yet, so................

hard to concentrate and watch Angelina jolie in Alexander

Not even if she was naked in it would i watch that tripe. Used to have some respect for ya Tack , just lost that now.:D Hang your head in shame.

bunny shooter · 10-06-2010 12:50AM

Love the polar bear piccy

:D

Back on topic now

Tackleberrywho · 10-06-2010 01:02AM

ezridax wrote: »

This was the question.

Quite the opposite. If they invented a rifle that could shoot with the best or win at 1,200 yds then be light enough to carry all day on a stalk i would buy it in a heartbeat. I haven't seen or heard of one yet, so................

Ezri, I think I will try and build it, or maybe you might.

A hybrid class of machining,or metals.

I have seen some crazy metal alloys through my work.

In the near future metals may be grown through a non dendritic process.
lighter metals or metal plastic alloys.

So a 6 lb rifle with a 1/4 " at 1200 for you sir, just give me a few years

It wasn't me! · 10-06-2010 01:10AM

Given that part of what makes it work is the weight, you're pretty fecked there.

Tackleberrywho · 10-06-2010 01:16AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Given that part of what makes it work is the weight, you're pretty fecked there.

Well not necessarily IWM.

Where there's a will.

I have seen very accurate .243's with light barrels and .25-6's but 3/5 shots and accuracy went out the door due to thermo issues.

There are a whole new generation of metals coming out and alloys.

also these materials could be used instead of lead for heads etc.

if I told you 15 years ago that you would have a computer in your pocket you would have said i was mad. Now I bet you have an iphone

with ballistics calculator

It wasn't me! · 10-06-2010 01:51AM

Well, yes. If weight is a key component to why it works, then to make it work in a lighter package you've to make absolutely everything else so much better that the trade off at least breaks even. And then, since you've reached that technology, people will just add the weight to make it that much better, so that your new light system that would be competitive now will be just as useless then as its contemporaries are now. Its fatal flaw is the very premise the idea is built on.

As to the non-lead bullet debate, have you even been watching the coverage of the various sides so far? If there's a move away from lead, it'll be to enormous protest.

tac foley · 10-06-2010 11:30AM

dCorbus wrote: »

+1

Not as familiar with the F-Open Class, but typical calibres would be 6.5x55, 7mmWSM, etc. and other lovely and exotic beasts.

All hand-loaded of course..... : (

In recent years the most popular has been the 6.5/.284, but barrel life is measured in hundreds of shots, rather than thousands.

We have half a dozen F-TR shooters in our club who come along to bore-sight their rifles with new barrels every year - five shots, logged-in and registered, and that's it.

A father and son pair here buy either Lilja or the Scottish Border barrels, around £900 each, fitted, every season. As Tim the elder pointed out - 'after about 8-900 shots you can visibly watch the deterioration set it...'

The newer short magnums are getting a place, too, with the likes of the .300WSM - barrel life is better, it seems.

Just to point out that my Krico 650SS, with its chrome bore, has over 12,000 full-load .308Win shots down it, and STILL shoots 1/2MOA.....

Cost me the same as one of their barrels as well.....

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

tac foley · 10-06-2010 11:33AM

tommyboy26 wrote: »

is 8mm bigger than .308?

tommy

I thought the RoI was metric?

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

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f-class

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