f-class

tommyboy26

just wondering if anyone can give me details on the rules to f- class as im going to start shooting it and need to know the rules.



tommy

Cass

F-Open - Any rifle, up to 8mm in caliber, with any mag scope and not exceeding 22lbs in weight. A front rest and rear bag for support.

FTR - Rifle of .308( & .223) caliber. Rear bag and bipod (no rest). Any mag scope and total weight not to exceed 18.18 lbs.








PS - There is a muzzle velocity limit on the ammo you can use, but i cannot remember if it is a limit or an actual rule. It is 3200fps if i'm not mistaken.

tommyboy26

is 8mm bigger than .308?


tommy

jwshooter

tommyboy26 wrote: »

is 8mm bigger than .308?


tommy

do u have a 308

tommyboy26

yeah i have a .308

Cass

tommyboy26 wrote:

is 8mm bigger than .308

Yes.

thedragon

Why is it called F class, is there an A, B, C, and D class etc. Im probably going to be slated for asking this question.

It wasn't me!

thedragon wrote: »

Why is it called F class, is there an A, B, C, and D class etc. Im probably going to be slated for asking this question.

After its originator, George Farquharson.

Cass

Just to elaborate on It wasn't me's post.

An extract from the F-class info website.

F-Class was started in Canada. It was started as a fun class. In the beginning, it was mostly old time shooters, who put a scope and bipod on their rifle and shot along with the rest of the TR shooters. Mr. Farquharson came up with the idea of F-Class to enable he and other older long-range shooters to continue shooting along side of the people they had been competing with for most of their lives. Farquharson was a Canadian who shot what in most of the world is known as Fullbore Rifle. Fullbore (known as long-range or Palma shooting here in the States) is shot prone with a sling and iron sights, using a .308 Winchester and a bullet weight of no more than 156 grains.

Farquharson figured, that older shooters would be able to continue long-range shooting longer if their eyesight and bodies could be augmented by allowing them to use a scope and a rest to shoot. He convinced the Canadian NRA (the DCRA) to approve his idea and F-Class was named after him. F-Class migrated to the rest of the British Commonwealth and also to Germany, France, the Netherlands and the USA.

wolfsshadow

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

It wasn't me!

wolfsshadow wrote: »

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

Out to 1000 yards, so no, a .220 Swift or a .22-250 just isn't going to make the grade.

dCorbus

+1

but also,

a .220 Swift or a .22-250 just isn't going to make the grade

Not only won't it make the grade, but it would have to be shot in the F-Open Class, and not F/TR Class (with that class' restrictions to .308W and .223 only), and against the "exotics" in F-Open, a .220 and .22-250 would be out of the running entirely IMHO. So, as opposed to making the grade, it wouldn't even get into the exam hall!:rolleyes::D

what ranges/distance do they shoot at in f class here, basically would a .22-250 or220 do

Ranges: In Ireland all F-Class shooting is typically done at ranges of 500yds, 600yds, 800yds, 900yds, 1000yds, and hopefully soon at 1100 & 1200yds.

Typical Calibres: For F/TR Class, either .308W or .223, nothing else allowed in the restricted F/TR class. Although, a .308 would be a better choice than the .223 for the longer ranges IMHO.

Not as familiar with the F-Open Class, but typical calibres would be 6.5x55, 7mmWSM, etc. and other lovely and exotic beasts.

need to know the rules

You'll find all the rules here: ICFRA F-Class Rulebook

Hope that's of some more help to you - and if I've got anything wrong or misinterpreted the rules etc., Make sure to let me know!:D;)

wolfsshadow

ok i know this is like asking how long is a piece of string but do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range and what would be a suitable rifle/calibre for someone on a tight budget, i don't expect to be competative but would just like to get started and enjoy a day on the range

tomcat220t

The 6.5x55 is a good caliber for stalking and some range time .139 laupa has a very good B/C for target shooting and the norma 120gr for stalking,imo.

It wasn't me!

If I were to take one for both, it'd have to be the .308 Win. Hands down. Also allows you to shoot in the F/TR class, which is designed for cheaper and easier entries.

dCorbus

do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range and what would be a suitable rifle/calibre for someone on a tight budget, i don't expect to be competative but would just like to get started and enjoy a day on the range

Tricky one to answer with any definity.
I'd agree with It wasn't me! about the .308 being a better calibre choice for both hunting and F/TR - but it all depends on what you're hoping to do most of your shooting with and what you plan to hunt, as a 308 is a wee bit overkill for rabbits and perhaps foxes (AFAIK, but not a hunter so I'll let the lads advise you better on the quarry v's calibre choice issue).

A hunting rifle in 308 or 223 etc would be perfectly good as primarily a hunting gun, used occasionally on the range for a spot of zeroing and target practice.

Conversely, a target rifle in 308 or 223 would be better as as primarily a target gun, used occasionally in the field for a spot of hunting.

The main problem / difference is that a hunting rifle's barrel is generally too light to stand up to the 15 - 20 shot strings needed in F-class target shooting, whilst a target rifle is generally too heavy to lug around the fields all day.

However, there are some rifles in 308 and 223 which will do both jobs quite well and as such would be good for hunting and reasonably good for target shooting (with a varmint-type or bull barrel): Remmy700, Tikka t3 TAC, Sako TRG22 (although that's a bit of a hefty beast, approx 14.5-15lb with scope and bipod, and I wouldn't fancy lugging that up hills and dales myself), are just a couple which spring to my mind.

The 6.5x55 is a good caliber for stalking and some range time

I agree, but a lighter barrelled 6.5x55 hunting rifle will drive you demented in a long string shooting 15 - 20 rounds per detail, as opposed to the max 2 - 5 shots per day (?) I'd assume a stalking rifle needs to deal with on a day in the field. Maybe wrong on this - ezridax may be able to explain better as I think he had this issue come up a while back?

If I were to take one for both, it'd have to be the .308 Win. Hands down. Also allows you to shoot in the F/TR class, which is designed for cheaper and easier entries.

Easier, It wasn't me! ?:eek::D
I do hope you mean "ease of entry" into the sport and are not implying that F/TR is in some way easier than F-Open, god forbid? :eek::rolleyes: Coz, that's a whole can-a-worms that should best stay nice and shut!!!!:D:D:rolleyes:

But as a far as ease-of-entry goes and the accessibility of getting started in target shooting, the .308 is the only way to go (Very much IMHO).

wolfsshadow, could I ask what rifle and calibre you are shooting with now?

It wasn't me!

I meant it in the ease-of-entry sense.

dCorbus

Of course! That's what I'd assumed you meant!:D;)

And on that, you're 100% correct (IMvHO).

Cass

The simple answer (IMO) is there is no such thing as a rifle that suits both target and hunting needs equally and perfectly.

Yes some will do both, but you will never win in the target section and the draw backs of having a target orientated rifle for hunting has already been covered by dCorbus (weight mainly).

The only viable option may be a .223 cal rifle. Something with a longer barrel than most (in excess of 26") with maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist. I cannot vouch for such a rifle for target work as mine is 1:12 and purely hunting. It will hold a group at 100yds and 200 yds. At 300 the group widens and as i've never shot past this i do not know the effects after 300. You can though take it and head out into the field for a spot of vermin control. Rabbits, foxes, etc. The rifle would weigh 9lbs or so max. The recoil from a .223 is, well, nothing really.

If its deer you are after then the options become a little more varied and for this purpose i would definitely take IWM's advice and go the .308 route. There are a few rifles out there that can be bought as a hunting rifle, but carries an inherent accuracy that will see you good for at least 300yds. For someone that has not shot target before i would recommend starting from 100yds and working out to 300yds before progressing further. Learn hold, follow through, recoil, breathing, mirage, wind reading, etc.

My advice here is the same as it always is in situations like this. Go visit a range and see all the different rifles available there. Talk to the shooters. Ask for pros and cons of each rifle. See the actual results of the rifles at the different distances, rather than someone "exaggerating" their results because they like the rifle, and when you buy it realise it doesn't suit.

Where abouts in the country are you? May be able to recommend a dealer or two to visit.



PS - Not trying to talk down to you and if you have experience in either target shooting or hunting then i apologise. I am answering as though you are a newbie.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

The simple answer (IMO) is there is no such thing as a rifle that suits both target and hunting needs equally and perfectly.

Yes some will do both, but you will never win in the target section and the draw backs of having a target orientated rifle for hunting has already been covered by dCorbus (weight mainly).

The only viable option may be a .223 cal rifle. Something with a longer barrel than most (in excess of 26") with maybe a 1:10 or 1:12 twist. I cannot vouch for such a rifle for target work as mine is 1:12 and purely hunting. It will hold a group at 100yds and 200 yds. At 300 the group widens and as i've never shot past this i do not know the effects after 300. You can though take it and head out into the field for a spot of vermin control. Rabbits, foxes, etc. The rifle would weigh 9lbs or so max. The recoil from a .223 is, well, nothing really.

I hear ya Ezri,
I hope to have a 28" 1/10 .223 soon. I have not shot a bunny more than 368; But the bunnies do not always be at the range most varminters want when conditions are perfect.

I'd like to have a go at F-Class, not to win; but just to see what is the best I can do.

If going the stalking root the heavy barrreled .308 would annoy you.

Not impossible mind you, depends if their is a lot of walking in the hunting area.

I do believe the two calibres can be reasonably good at both. I have shot deer with a 1910 swedish mauser, and that was heavy long rifle.

But for comfort I think the stalking rifle has to be nimble.
I have left bunnies behind on the other side of a river or ditch that was dangerous or awkward to cross.

I would be not as reluctant to ford a stream if it meant bambie was on the other side.

Maybe we need a new class? Varmint class or V-Class? Akin to the sporter .22lr class Vs .22 TR class if i am naming them correctly.

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

.........But the bunnies do not always be at the range most varminters want when conditions are perfect.

Don't know if i'm reading this wrong, but i don't get the point you're making. Are you saying they're too far?

I'd like to have a go at F-Class, not to win; but just to see what is the best I can do.

Only two ways to do it. A .308 or .223. .308 is the most popular at the moment so go buy one and get shooting.

If going the stalking root the heavy barrreled .308 would annoy you.

Not really. With the proper harness/sling although slightly heavy no rifle is uncarriable (if thats a word).

I do believe the two calibres can be reasonably good at both.

Which two?

I have shot deer with a 1910 swedish mauser, and that was heavy long rifle.

And how did it handle on the target range?

But for comfort I think the stalking rifle has to be nimble.

Again though the poster was looking to see if any rifle performed both functions well/good.

I have left bunnies behind on the other side of a river or ditch that was dangerous or awkward to cross.

I would be not as reluctant to ford a stream if it meant bambie was on the other side.

Sorry not following you on this one. The question was about a rifle with good to excellent dual performance.

Maybe we need a new class? Varmint class or V-Class? Akin to the sporter .22lr class Vs .22 TR class if i am naming them correctly.

A sporter .22 does both hunting and target work. Neither of them excellently, but both quite well. Even if you build a custom rifle, and its light enough to carry hunting and can perform well at target work, it will still be beaten by lads with dedicated target rifles. Honestly (and if someone can prove me wrong here, great) there isn't a rifle around that can go out to the range shoot and win competitions at up to 1,000yds and then be carried into the field and used for game hunting.

It wasn't me!

I agree with ezri on this. A hunting rifle is built one way, a target rifle another. I don't even like varmint type builds for hunting unless I'm certain all the shots will be prone or off a very solid rest. Would hate to take a standing shot in the field with a 26" heavy barrel, especially if I then had a mod hanging off it. On the target range, that's absolutely standard fare, but then I'm not wearing canvas and leather out hunting, and I'm not wearing hiking boots and my hunting gear on the range, so the equipment is different. If you want to try and find both, you're going to be consistently disappointed.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I agree with ezri on this. A hunting rifle is built one way, a target rifle another. I don't even like varmint type builds for hunting unless I'm certain all the shots will be prone or off a very solid rest. Would hate to take a standing shot in the field with a 26" heavy barrel, especially if I then had a mod hanging off it. On the target range, that's absolutely standard fare, but then I'm not wearing canvas and leather out hunting, and I'm not wearing hiking boots and my hunting gear on the range, so the equipment is different. If you want to try and find both, you're going to be consistently disappointed.

I can hit bunnies from the shoulder @ 100 with the mod on, I was doing a bad job of making a point, a heavy long rifle is a cu*t going through ditches etc which stalking for me involves a lot of.

The swedish mauser I had was as accurate as a sako 75 i replaced it with, no difference. But from the shoulder the mauser was a heavy hoor and hard to stabilize, and it could not easily take a bipod.

So I would not want a dual purpose rifle if i wanted to win comps or have a perfect stalking rifle.

i do a lot of 4x4, but road tyres in the field are no good and field tyres on the road no good. But I would still go with field tyres rather than get bogged with road tyres.

Equally I would have to go with two rifles. If the OP was only shooting target for craic and only a few deer then maybe a slightly heavy barrel would be acceptable.

My varmint is 1 stone with everything on, it would be pretty ok at target I think as groups are good.
It is by no means a handy rifle though, many lads would not put up with the weight.


So it all really depends on the op tolerances if he is well built a heavy rifle no issue, if not it may be.

Only the user can decide that one.
I hope that this somehow clarifies things, hard to concentrate and watch Angelina jolie in Alexander

Cass

wolfsshadow wrote: »

....... do poeple use a rifle for hunting and the range .............

This was the question.

Tackleberywho wrote:

I can hit bunnies from the shoulder @ 100 with the mod on, I was doing a bad job of making a point, a heavy long rifle is a cu*t going through ditches etc which stalking for me involves a lot of.

The swedish mauser I had was as accurate as a sako 75 i replaced it with, no difference. But from the shoulder the mauser was a heavy hoor and hard to stabilize, and it could not easily take a bipod.

So a rifle that is okay/good at both, but does not excel at either is not really what the poster was looking for. Now i could be way of the mark. Maybe he is happy with adequate. As a rifle does not exist that would be excellent for both then the point is kinda moot.

So I would not want a dual purpose rifle if i wanted to win comps or have a perfect stalking rifle

Quite the opposite. If they invented a rifle that could shoot with the best or win at 1,200 yds then be light enough to carry all day on a stalk i would buy it in a heartbeat. I haven't seen or heard of one yet, so................

hard to concentrate and watch Angelina jolie in Alexander

Not even if she was naked in it would i watch that tripe. Used to have some respect for ya Tack , just lost that now.:D Hang your head in shame.

bunny shooter

Love the polar bear piccy :D

Back on topic now

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

This was the question.


Quite the opposite. If they invented a rifle that could shoot with the best or win at 1,200 yds then be light enough to carry all day on a stalk i would buy it in a heartbeat. I haven't seen or heard of one yet, so................

Ezri, I think I will try and build it, or maybe you might.

A hybrid class of machining,or metals.

I have seen some crazy metal alloys through my work.

In the near future metals may be grown through a non dendritic process.
lighter metals or metal plastic alloys.

So a 6 lb rifle with a 1/4 " at 1200 for you sir, just give me a few years

It wasn't me!

Given that part of what makes it work is the weight, you're pretty fecked there.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Given that part of what makes it work is the weight, you're pretty fecked there.

Well not necessarily IWM.

Where there's a will.

I have seen very accurate .243's with light barrels and .25-6's but 3/5 shots and accuracy went out the door due to thermo issues.

There are a whole new generation of metals coming out and alloys.

also these materials could be used instead of lead for heads etc.

if I told you 15 years ago that you would have a computer in your pocket you would have said i was mad. Now I bet you have an iphone with ballistics calculator

It wasn't me!

Well, yes. If weight is a key component to why it works, then to make it work in a lighter package you've to make absolutely everything else so much better that the trade off at least breaks even. And then, since you've reached that technology, people will just add the weight to make it that much better, so that your new light system that would be competitive now will be just as useless then as its contemporaries are now. Its fatal flaw is the very premise the idea is built on.

As to the non-lead bullet debate, have you even been watching the coverage of the various sides so far? If there's a move away from lead, it'll be to enormous protest.

tac foley

dCorbus wrote: »

+1

Not as familiar with the F-Open Class, but typical calibres would be 6.5x55, 7mmWSM, etc. and other lovely and exotic beasts.

All hand-loaded of course..... : (

In recent years the most popular has been the 6.5/.284, but barrel life is measured in hundreds of shots, rather than thousands.

We have half a dozen F-TR shooters in our club who come along to bore-sight their rifles with new barrels every year - five shots, logged-in and registered, and that's it.

A father and son pair here buy either Lilja or the Scottish Border barrels, around £900 each, fitted, every season. As Tim the elder pointed out - 'after about 8-900 shots you can visibly watch the deterioration set it...'

The newer short magnums are getting a place, too, with the likes of the .300WSM - barrel life is better, it seems.

Just to point out that my Krico 650SS, with its chrome bore, has over 12,000 full-load .308Win shots down it, and STILL shoots 1/2MOA.....

Cost me the same as one of their barrels as well.....

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

tac foley

tommyboy26 wrote: »

is 8mm bigger than .308?


tommy

I thought the RoI was metric?

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

Tackleberrywho

tac foley wrote: »

I thought the RoI was metric?

tac
Supporter of The Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

It's a mongrel of both, we are only truely Metric a few years.
Some of the older gents learned imperial whilst the younger folk learned Metric.

I learned Metric in school yet outside school everything was imperial until a few years ago.

I have a scope derivated in 1/4 " so I use Inches.
I use mm in work once I can converty correctly 25.4 and all that no probs.

Cass

I think that some gun manufacturer, engineer, someone out there with far more knowledge of firearms, ballistics, rifling, etc, etc would have created something by now.

The point is you cannot custom build something from "bastardised" parts (custom or not) to make a rifle to do both. The technology just doesn't exist to do so.

Of course the other side is the technology exists, but manufaturers believe the market is not there for a high quality dual purpose rifle.

Yeah, right.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

I think that some gun manufacturer, engineer, someone out there with far more knowledge of firearms, ballistics, rifling, etc, etc would have created something by now.

The point is you cannot custom build something from "bastardised" parts (custom or not) to make a rifle to do both. The technology just doesn't exist to do so.

Of course the other side is the technology exists, but manufaturers believe the market is not there for a high quality dual purpose rifle.

Yeah, right.

The company i work for design products and some of them never go to market, they design stuff just to see if it can be done.

Lots of stuff in Engineering was put on the back burner due to low gross earnings last year and the year before it was shelved.

I know of plants that stopped production but ramped R&D

Getting slightly off topic though.

My point is at the rate Technology is changing we are sure to see new firearm design soon

tac foley

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It's a mongrel of both, we are only truely Metric a few years.
Some of the older gents learned imperial whilst the younger folk learned Metric.

I learned Metric in school yet outside school everything was imperial until a few years ago.

I have a scope derivated in 1/4 " so I use Inches.
I use mm in work once I can converty correctly 25.4 and all that no probs.

Thank you, Sir.

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

dCorbus

So, as an exercise only, what would people suggest would make the best dual-purpose rifle (i.e. hunting and target)?

Not sure about the engineering / firearms-design side of things myself, but here's some suggestions for a dual-purpose hunting/target rifle:

1. Calibre 308W (Good for FTR, Yes, but - Good for stalking? Good for Foxes? I don't know about these myself)
2. Medium Weight overall (say 12lbs), but not too light.
3. 28'' 1:11 or 1:12 Bull-Barrel (Not too long, not too short)?
4. Use a precision Target-type stock, to keep weight down, but simplified to ensure robustness in the field? eg:

5. 5 Round Magazine, but with single-shot adapter/baseplate
6. Removable Iron Sights
7. Pre-threaded for moddy

Just some food for thought - What do you think?
Let's see if we all collectively can't come up with the perfect rifle!!!!!:D:D:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

dCorbus wrote: »

So, as an exercise only, what would people suggest would make the best dual-purpose rifle (i.e. hunting and target)?

Not sure about the engineering / firearms-design side of things myself, but here's some suggestions for a dual-purpose hunting/target rifle:

1. Calibre 308W (Good for FTR, Yes, but - Good for stalking? Good for Foxes? I don't know about these myself)
2. Medium Weight overall (say 12lbs), but not too light.
3. 28'' 1:11 or 1:12 Bull-Barrel (Not too long, not too short)?
4. Use a precision Target-type stock, to keep weight down, but simplified to ensure robustness in the field? eg:

5. 5 Round Magazine, but with single-shot adapter/baseplate
6. Removable Iron Sights
7. Pre-threaded for moddy

Just some food for thought - What do you think?
Let's see if we all collectively can't come up with the perfect rifle!!!!!:D:D:rolleyes:

.308 will take all irish game.
The rifle you display would need a hand crew to carry in presant form though.

my varmint rifle weighs 1 stone as is. I suppose that is almost acceptable as a stalking rifle

It depends if you are stalking, or doing lazy boy tree hide job, then weight is not an issue

Tack driver accuracy

wolfsshadow

thanks to every one for their input, i'm hoping to upgrade to centerfire next year so i'm just trying to get some info first, i know i wont be competative with a dual purpose rifle but it's a cheap way to start, then if i decided i want to get seriose on the range i can get a second rifle just for that, .308 would be to big for me so i'm thinking more a .223 with varmint barrel and thumbhole stock, maybe a howa? i was asking about 22-250 or 220 because there seems to be a few cheap (£300) ones in uk with claims of little use.
and as for other questions asked yes i'm a newbie and i'm in roscommon.

dCorbus

hey wolfsshadow

.308 would be to big

Do you mean price-wise, recoil-wise, or for the quarry you're planning to shoot?

22-250 or 220

Not sure how these would fair as target rifles. Great for hunting (Correction needed here, lads?:o), but wouldn't really be at the races for any long distance target stuff IMvHO. But perfectly suited for honing your skills on the range and having a good time doing it, whilst giving you a rifle you can take out in the fields.:)

there seems to be a few cheap (£300) ones in uk with claims of little use

That sounds a bit on the cheap and "too-good-to-be-true" side, so tread warily.;)

My vote would still be for the .308.
Howa has a fantastic and brick-s**thouse action, apparently.
Tikka T3 TAC
Or the Remmy700

But, personally, to cover field and range, I'd go for the T3 TAC in .308 (1:11 twist with slightly longer 24" barrel), if you're not going for something more exotic for now. (Can also be got in .223)

But that's just my choice!:D;)

Tackleberrywho

wolfsshadow wrote: »

thanks to every one for their input, i'm hoping to upgrade to centerfire next year so i'm just trying to get some info first, i know i wont be competative with a dual purpose rifle but it's a cheap way to start, then if i decided i want to get seriose on the range i can get a second rifle just for that, .308 would be to big for me so i'm thinking more a .223 with varmint barrel and thumbhole stock, maybe a howa? i was asking about 22-250 or 220 because there seems to be a few cheap (£300) ones in uk with claims of little use.
and as for other questions asked yes i'm a newbie and i'm in roscommon.

A rossie, well welcome on board. I'd go .223 if you want target and you do not want a .308.
Unless you want to go unlimited F class with a different calibre perhaps .204 (not sure if it is allowed)

The .223 & .204 should be easier licence though than a .308

dCorbus

The .223 & .204 should be easier licence though than a .308

Not sure I agree with you on that. Can't see why there'd be any difference, once you had the ol' good reasons boxed off.

I'd go .223 if you want target and you do not want a .308

Still not sure about wolfsshadows reasons for not going for the .308, other than it's "too big". Cost may be an issue alright, as the .223 ammo is cheaper I believe than the .308.

But from a getting-a-licence point-of-view, I can't see any difference.
Personally, I went straight for the 308, as I could only afford one centrefire rifle, that was the one for me since the .223 would be a bit more limited in its range and scope (no pun intended). Went straight from 22lr to .308 and, with "good reasons" boxed off, had no prob's getting licence. But then again, i only use the 308 for target shooting, but the make of rifle is also used for hunting (just not by me).

wolfsshadow

i thought .308 would be a little over the top for bunnys, hence "too big" but it would be something to look forward to, 223's seem more popular and hold their price better than similar calibers, and just to upset everyone if you go on some of the uk internet gun sale sites, not to sure i'm allowed to name comercial sites here you can find brand new howa 1500 from £440 to £580 in cambridgeshire and gloucestershire yes i did find a 22-250 varmint barrel for £480 most other shops are asking around £7-800 but yeah i agree with dcorbus about cheap s/h ones, anyone got any idea if reloading will become legal here?

Tackleberrywho

wolfsshadow wrote: »

i thought .308 would be a little over the top for bunnys, hence "too big" but it would be something to look forward to, 223's seem more popular and hold their price better than similar calibers, and just to upset everyone if you go on some of the uk internet gun sale sites, not to sure i'm allowed to name comercial sites here you can find brand new howa 1500 from £440 to £580 in cambridgeshire and gloucestershire yes i did find a 22-250 varmint barrel for £480 most other shops are asking around £7-800 but yeah i agree with dcorbus about cheap s/h ones, anyone got any idea if reloading will become legal here?

Big IF

The smaller calibres can be more fun as the recoil is light and if you go moderated it will pop bunnies all day.

I have used my Un Mod'ed .308 on bunnies though too.
Points to note, I see a .308 tactical threaded Remington on www.remington.com

It really depends on your Super, he may want Proof of a target range for a .308 or a deer permit
The .223 will let you enter comps and shoot bunnies too. Bunnies can be shot for €14 for 20 Remington UMC and Target for €26 Hornady or Remington Accutip

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Big IF

The smaller calibres can be more fun as the recoil is light and if you go moderated it will pop bunnies all day.

I have used my Un Mod'ed .308 on bunnies though too.

I really don't think that's a good idea. You're using a very powerful round at a depressed angle against a quarry that's highly unlikely to stop the bullet.

The potential for things to get FUBAR are in the upper quartile.

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

I really don't think that's a good idea. You're using a very powerful round at a depressed angle against a quarry that's highly unlikely to stop the bullet.

The potential for things to get FUBAR are in the upper quartile.

I never heard of a depressed angle, not saying it does not exist but i have never used it in Engineering mathematics to daye.

Anything can go FUBAR if you don't know what you are doing.
Deer will not stop all hunting rounds, ask any hunter and they will tell you that. Exit wounds are to be found on most deer calibres.

The most important part is that the backstop is suitable.

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I never heard of a depressed angle, not saying it does not exist but i have never used it in Engineering mathematics to daye.

It's ballistics terminology, engineers don't use it. It means that the angle of sight is towards the ground in basic terms.

Anything can go FUBAR if you don't know what you are doing.
Deer will not stop all hunting rounds, ask any hunter and they will tell you that. Exit wounds are to be found on most deer calibres.

Not all the time and there's very little relative energy left in the bullet after passing through a deer.

The most important part is that the backstop is suitable.

People keep talking about backstops as if there's nothing more to them than some obstacle through which a bullet can't pass. Would any of the 'backstops' you talk of, be even fractionally as effective as the backstop on a range?

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

It's ballistics terminology, engineers don't use it. It means that the angle of sight is towards the ground in basic terms. To me that means do not fire on a shallow angle to encourage bullet skip, like what happens when you skim stones across a pond

Not all the time and there's very little relative energy left in the bullet after passing through a deer. I know of two deer shot with the one round, and I have heard of several with core lokt rounds

People keep talking about backstops as if there's nothing more to them than some obstacle through which a bullet can't pass. Would any of the 'backstops' you talk of, be even fractionally as effective as the backstop on a range?

In relation to your last point yes, most definitely I have shooting in a quarry where there is sand 100 ft tall and goes back about 4 mile

Not the highest bank by any means

The midlands is full of Escir and it is also full of bunnies.
Look on the photos thread I posted some sandy cliff face I'd post more but it would give away my exact location

rrpc

Didn't I just teach you how to reduce those photos?

That's hardly sand, it's earth with lots of little rocks in it. I've never seen sand that can stand up vertically, the closest to that I've ever seen is La Dune du Pyla in Arcachon in South West France which is 117m high and still capable of being walked up easily.

As a backstop, it's ok, but not everyone has that kind of backstop available to them when hunting.

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

Didn't I just teach you how to reduce those photos?

That's hardly sand, it's earth with lots of little rocks in it. I've never seen sand that can stand up vertically, the closest to that I've ever seen is La Dune du Pyla in Arcachon in South West France which is 117m high and still capable of being walked up easily.

As a backstop, it's ok, but not everyone has that kind of backstop available to them when hunting.

You did but I could not find the orig thread and that is from hunting photos thread.

Yes there is earth on the ground.
It fell after heavy rain.
You might notice the sand martin burrows in the picture.

they burrow into sand as their nest and after fly back to North africa when chicks are raised.


It is very good sand, we plastered our house with it, a simple screed got the pebbles out

I'll take a few pics especially for you and I will crop and post them

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I'll take a few pics especially for you and I will crop and post them

What? You'll zoom out and make those rocks look smaller?

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

What? You'll zoom out and make those rocks look smaller?

I took that pic to highlight the sand martins for a hunting thread.

If I had turned 360 I would have shown you a hill of sand!.
I've the dinner got. I'll just grab the .308 and out the door