Watts per kilogram

Kaisr Sose · 24-05-2010 10:31pm

I think there is merit in using modern methods to get the best out of yourself and also just going for it based on riding as hard as you can on the terrain you are on during a TT. I would suggest you aim to do two x 16k TT on the same day using both methods and compare times. If nothing else it would make gor good training and a good experiment.
Would love to have had a power meter when I was fit. Happy with 22.29 for 10ml and 58.32 at the time (no disc, aero bars or skinsuit) but I wonder what I could to now if I can get back into regalar training. How much for a power meter? I know you can rent them which is something I might try after getting more distance in the legs.

Lumen · 24-05-2010 10:37pm

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Would love to have had a power meter when I was fit. Happy with 22.29 for 10ml and 58.32 at the time (no disc, aero bars or skinsuit) but I wonder what I could to now if I can get back into regalar training. How much for a power meter? I know you can rent them which is something I might try after getting more distance in the legs.

Ha ha, that's proper cycling that is.

I'd rent from cyclepowermeters. The best wireless option IMO would be the Powertap Elite+ Wheel Only and Garmin 705 HR for £14 a week, and the cheapest altogether is the wired PowerTap Pro (which should come with a head unit) at £9 per week.

Good service apparently, that's where I bought my Quarq power meter.

Lumen · 03-06-2010 12:03am

New power peaks tonight on my usual training loop.

5 min: 328W (up from 318W)
20 min: 284W (up from 281W)
30 min: 275W (up from 266W)

All done in the same interval at only 171bpm and with no hillclimbing to help keep the power up.

I'm happy enough with progress given the pitiful amount of training I've been able to do so far this year. Time to ramp things up...

el tel · 03-06-2010 1:53pm

I don't know where you guys get the time and patience to monitor, measure and report all this stuff! Is there a machine that does it? I think I'm waaay behind the times with all this technology.

Lumen · 03-06-2010 2:10pm

el tel wrote: »

I don't know where you guys get the time and patience to monitor, measure and report all this stuff! Is there a machine that does it? I think I'm waaay behind the times with all this technology.

It takes no more time than using a HR monitor.

The most important aspect is having the power numbers on the bike to help pace the intervals. The power meter requires no maintenance, although it should be zeroed before each ride (ten seconds ish). It communicates wirelessly with my Garmin.

I usually download the data from the Garmin whilst heating up my post-ride food. Takes a few seconds.

Now that I understand the power data I've stopped doing any analysis of long rides, or weekly training load, or any of that stuff. The only thing that matters is hitting the numbers on my intervals, plus understanding how close to my limits I'm riding in races.

el tel · 03-06-2010 3:23pm

You make it sound so easy Lumen!

I think the reason that I have barely improved as a rider in 15 years is that my training (if you can call it that) is so haphazard and unfocussed. Only lately have I attempted to do interval training! I'll have to take a leaf out of your book methinks.

levitronix · 03-06-2010 11:10pm

Those are some nice looking figures Lumen

Lumen · 05-06-2010 8:34pm

I'm in Newcastle West for the Cycling Pursuits 3 Day, my first multi-day racing event (is "stage race" appropriate? It's not exactly the Giro).

Today's A4 race (stage?) was a flattish 45km. The racing was more fun than usual, mostly on account of the women's contingent who seem keener to attack than the men.

There was a crash in the last couple of km. A rider in front of me snagged The Crunch's shorts with his handlebars and went down (or caused someone else to go down, not sure). I saw it happen in slow-mo, the bike flying sideways in front of me. I had no choice but to plough onwards, and the bike's front wheel slammed into mine. My right shifter got a whack too, but both wheel and shifter survived and I stayed upright.

We galloped on to the finish where I crossed the line about eleventh. GC is determined by points rather than time, which means if you're outside the top six you may as well be last.

Overall, a well organised race with a nice open finish, and for me another crash dodged which is good news as I didn't bring a spare front wheel.

Stats: 217W avg (245W normalised), 170bpm, 38.5kph. The last 20 seconds of the sprint were around 570W which is pretty lame. The preceeding 2.4km averaged 207W/44.5kph, which shows that my wheelsucking skills are fine - I think my poor sprinting is a mental rather than physical limitation, need to HTFU and push harder.

Tomorrow brings a 16km TT (at 9am :eek:) followed by another 45km mass start race in the afternoon.

Thanks to Liam and the rest for organising such a great event (so far).

Results not up yet on Cycling Ireland. edit: results here

Raam · 05-06-2010 8:42pm

Good luck, Lumen

DirkVoodoo · 05-06-2010 11:03pm

Raam wrote: »

Good luck, Lumen

+1 Kick some ass tomorrow, you know you can do it, so go do it!

Lumen · 06-06-2010 11:27am

Powerful, aerodynamic - pick one.

I've still not managed any training on my TT bike, so this was only it's third outing on the road since I bought it at the end of last year.

Since I'm not used to the way it's set up, I decided last night that I'd have nothing to lose with a more aggressive aero position, so moved the saddle up and pads further forward to allow me to sit right on the tip of the saddle.

At the start line I discovered that I'd misread the website, and that it was actually a 10km TT, not 10 miles. Ah well, less pain.

It soon became clear that I couldn't sustain anywhere near my road bike power (which would be almost 290W for this duration), so I rammed my pointy hat between my shoulder blades and pushed on staying as aero as possible.

End result: about 15:58 for 10.6km, 39.8kph, 245W.

4 minute averages: 256W, 233W, 242W, 252W. HR averaged 172bpm, hitting 175bpm half way and finishing over 180bpm.

So, about 15% less power for the same sort of heart rate. The lack of power was disappointing, but the speed was good so I just need to find the time to get out on my TT bike and train those muscles.

I'm unlikely to have gotten any points this morning. One of the women (Caroline Ryan) got well under 15 minutes and the others weren't far behind.

Maybe I need to start doping with oestrogen. :pac:

edit: turns out I got 10th of 33, about 20 seconds off the top six.

Lumen · 06-06-2010 4:15pm

This one was five laps of a flattish 9km loop with a drag and a kicker finish to each lap.

Points (for GC only, not proper C.I. points) were on offer for intermediate sprints on the first four laps, and I managed to grab 2pts for 5th on lap 2.

Aside from that I was trying to conserve what little energy I had between each sprint.

At the finish I had nothing left and trailed in at the back of the bunch.

Stats: 1:12 @ 37.8kph, 203m^, 160W (192W norm), 165bpm. My legs hurt.

Those numbers look pitiful, but sprints were quite draining and the TT in the morning didn't help.

Tomorrow is a biggie, 69km with a badass hill apparently. I foresee droppage.

Beasty · 06-06-2010 5:11pm

Keep going for it Lumen - everyone else is in the same boat, so hopefully you'll be able to keep in touch, and if(/when) you're still there at the end, who knows what you can do.

On the TT, do you think your lack of power may have been down to the fact you raced yesterday, and knew you had another race later on? I always find I can push out much more power when I feel I am fresh.

zzzzzzzz · 06-06-2010 11:24pm

Lumen wrote: »

Tomorrow is a biggie, 69km with a badass hill apparently. I foresee droppage.

Have you got the route on mapmyride or anything? Or even just the climb?

Lumen · 07-06-2010 6:47am

Beasty wrote: »

On the TT, do you think your lack of power may have been down to the fact you raced yesterday, and knew you had another race later on?

Probably didn't help much.

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

Have you got the route on mapmyride or anything? Or even just the climb?

Nothing. All I know is that there are 3 laps of a 23km Circuit around Broadford.

Lumen · 07-06-2010 3:03pm

Big hill. 2 laps. 5th.

Beasty · 07-06-2010 3:15pm

Lumen wrote: »

Big hill. 2 laps. 5th.

Congratulations on a tremendous result Lumen. Presumably a more detailed report will follow in due course (or will we need to read about your exploits on the Irish Cycling website)?

Lumen · 07-06-2010 9:57pm

So today the A4s got destroyed by a triathlete, Colm Turner. He'd been fairly active near the front all weekend and had recced the climb yesterday (when I was asleep, probably). When the bunch hit the climb he disappeared and was never seen again, an outstanding performance. The fact that he wasn't in Athy this weekend (some lame excuse about transportation) suggests his triathletism may soon be in remission.

The climb was about 8km with a dip in the middle. Not sure of the gradient, the MMR route is here, but it was steep enough to seriously split the group. Despite averaging 295W (about 4.3 W/kg) for seven minutes or so on the first section, I couldn't/wouldn't stay with the chasing group of about seven riders, but caught them over the top. We lost a couple to the undergrowth on a hairpin during the wet descent, leaving about six of us "chasing" over the 10km back round to the base of the climb.

I was less bothered about catching Colm (who would have dropped us again on the hill even if we'd caught him) and more about those behind us, but only one or two of the group were working despite encouragement. In retrospect I perhaps should have jumped off solo (I was barely into tempo zone at the front) and given myself some breathing space on the climb, but their lack of co-operation was unexpected given our position in the race. I don't understand why people who can put out 300W+ on a climb then feel unable to even do 200W on the flat in a break during such a short race - if you're under 80% effort it takes nothing out of you.

Second climb around I stayed about second wheel for the first section, then a couple of them kicked off and it became a solo TT to the finish for me. I never saw anyone else behind me.

Anyway, a pleasing finish to a great weekend. These races had something for everyone, really well thought out. Maybe I'll get a couple of points for my 5th today, or maybe not - the grading guidelines are somewhat ambiguous.

Whatever, I've learnt loads this weekend from watching the strengths of different riders come through in the various races.

Stats for today: 46.7km, 1:29, 31.4kph, 201W (avg), 227W (norm), 162bpm.

Results on IrishCycling here.

edit: action shot (taken by Amy-Norah Farrell)

The Crunch · 08-06-2010 10:30am

Fair play, John. Well done. I did that course last year. Mental stuff...

niceonetom · 08-06-2010 10:50am

Well done Lumen. Hope you get your points. Good action shot too.

You're making me think I have to give one of these multi day events a go. I seem to finish every race feeling I like a want to do it again, this time properly. I think having another crack at it against the same oposition would be a great way to learn what works and what doesn't, yeah? and also see what my powers of recovery are like.

Did you bring the TT bike rig down? or just make do on the scott? Also, racing a steep race in the rain on carbon rims - any brown trouser moments? I had a few on Sunday and that was in a flat sportive...

Lumen · 08-06-2010 11:13am

niceonetom wrote: »

You're making me think I have to give one of these multi day events a go. I seem to finish every race feeling I like a want to do it again, this time properly. I think having another crack at it against the same oposition would be a great way to learn what works and what doesn't, yeah? and also see what my powers of recovery are like.

I think these events are brilliant. Day 2 was really hard physically, and it wasn't easy being away from my family all weekend. When I'm away with work I just get drunk, but that's not really an option when you're racing the next day. The last day my legs felt great, which is what everyone says.

niceonetom wrote: »

Did you bring the TT bike rig down? or just make do on the scott?

TT bike. It didn't necessarily improve my time that much due to power development issues but it would have done had I practiced on it.

niceonetom wrote: »

Also, racing a steep race in the rain on carbon rims - any brown trouser moments? I had a few on Sunday and that was in a flat sportive...

The descent was straightish, so no problems there. There is only really an issue when braking constantly or very hard, and it would be a very unusual course which required that - even the tight corner where others left the road only required a short squeeze to drag some speed off.

The wheels have been amazing overall, despite the wet braking performance I have no regrets at all. They've taken a real pounding from potholes (and the flying bike on Friday) but are still almost perfectly true, better than any other wheels I've owned.

Do you have carbon rims now?

ROK ON · 08-06-2010 11:15am

Well done. Great photo. Crazy gradient.

Raam · 08-06-2010 11:18am

The Scott and the wheels go well together. Nasty conditions, you're a better man than most of us.

niceonetom · 08-06-2010 11:33am

Lumen wrote: »

The descent was straightish, so no problems there. There is only really an issue when braking constantly or very hard, and it would be a very unusual course which required that - even the tight corner where others left the road only required a short squeeze to drag some speed off.

The wheels have been amazing overall, despite the wet braking performance I have no regrets at all. They've taken a real pounding from potholes (and the flying bike on Friday) but are still almost perfectly true, better than any other wheels I've owned.

Do you have carbon rims now?

Nope, still on shallow aluminium with too many spokes... it will be a long time before I go carbon, though if I do, I'd be looking at clinchers like yours I think. I still wouldn't use them for really mountainous stuff like the Marmotte though - I just wouldn't trust them to stand up to the braking.

ballyharpat · 08-06-2010 5:23pm

What carbon wheels are you racing on? What tires do you use?

Lumen wrote: »

I think these events are brilliant. Day 2 was really hard physically, and it wasn't easy being away from my family all weekend. When I'm away with work I just get drunk, but that's not really an option when you're racing the next day. The last day my legs felt great, which is what everyone says.

TT bike. It didn't necessarily improve my time that much due to power development issues but it would have done had I practiced on it.

The descent was straightish, so no problems there. There is only really an issue when braking constantly or very hard, and it would be a very unusual course which required that - even the tight corner where others left the road only required a short squeeze to drag some speed off.

The wheels have been amazing overall, despite the wet braking performance I have no regrets at all. They've taken a real pounding from potholes (and the flying bike on Friday) but are still almost perfectly true, better than any other wheels I've owned.

Do you have carbon rims now?

Lumen · 08-06-2010 5:29pm

ballyharpat wrote: »

What carbon wheels are you racing on? What tires do you use?

Soul C5.0 Prodigy carbon clincher. They're sort of a pre-production model.

The ones on the website are the previous version, actually a different rim. I think they've run out of the old rims, so new orders are probably similar to mine, although Sean (the owner) told me that they have a different surface treatment on the latest ones.

Anyway, they're good. I was expecting them to fall apart at the first sign of a pothole, but they've stood up well so far. Almost 200g lighter than the latest Zipp 404 carbon clincher and much cheaper, although probably a fair bit less aero.

I'm using Conti GP4000S tyres.

ballyharpat · 08-06-2010 5:42pm

@ Lumen, they are nice looking wheels, I have a set of Zipp 303 tubies and love them, but I did crack a rim at the start of a race in Massachussetts a year ago. They are light and spin freely though.

The Soul wheels are very popular over here btw. I use the same tires, have tried pretty much everything else and after a few sspills on slick roads, will now only use the Conti's as well, great racing and training tire.

I think the aero part depends more on the depth than the "dimples" dimples that Zipp market so well. BTW, congrats on the race over the weekend, I was following your updates.
To find out my best aero position to get the most power, I used to set up the tt bike on the trainer, with the powertap attached, then I'd see what power I was putting out at LT heart rate in the various positions, My Hr would get very high in some positions and squeeze my lungs, preventing me from putting out optimum power, the best power I was able to put out was about 15% off my LT power and still get the aero advantage.

Lumen · 08-06-2010 5:48pm

ballyharpat wrote: »

the best power I was able to put out was about 15% off my LT power and still get the aero advantage.

Ah, balls. I got the same result. I know I can't sustain 40kph for 15 minutes on my road bike, so maybe I just have to live with lower power and greater aero efficiency.

I need to do some aero testing out on the road, or at the track.

ballyharpat · 08-06-2010 5:54pm

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, balls. I got the same result. I know I can't sustain 40kph for 15 minutes on my road bike, so maybe I just have to live with lower power and greater aero efficiency.

I need to do some aero testing out on the road, or at the track.

I think it is about standard to be able to lose that amount of power versus the road bike, the other thing that I found great was stretching-Yoga ( I know very gay, lol) it allowed me to flex more from my hips rather than my core, it also helps me get more aero on the road bike, without back pain.

mloc123 · 09-06-2010 2:19pm

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, balls. I got the same result. I know I can't sustain 40kph for 15 minutes on my road bike, so maybe I just have to live with lower power and greater aero efficiency.

I need to do some aero testing out on the road, or at the track.

Have you tried much testing on the turbo? Best aero to comfort balance? Since you have a PM it should be pretty simple to work out a test procedure. Take your current setup and do a 5minutes @ x bpm, take the avg power. Play around with position and take pictures of each one, based on the 2/3 positions that look like they should be best you can then test them on the track

Watts per kilogram

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