Single parents to lose welfare payment when child turns 13

dublinguy2004 · 29-05-2010 11:24AM

Hyperbullet wrote: »

I agree, however if the parent is working for several years earning minimum wage and has 2 kids to look after, surely they deserve some assistance. I dont agree with parents who feckin live off the childrens allowance.

Bollox. The father and the mother's family have ten or 100 times the responsibilty for the child over the State and its taxpayers.

Hyperbullet · 29-05-2010 11:26AM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Bollox. The father and the mother's family have ten or 100 times the responsibilty for the child over the State and its taxpayers.

Right, so you're saying that the single parent should rely on their own parents/brothers/sisters for financial support is that it?

brianthebard · 29-05-2010 11:28AM

omahaid wrote: »

I dunno where people get this idea that all of a sudden no one is in employment in the republic There are plenty part time jobs around, I'm going into town later and I will count the number of help wanted ad's around. At 13 the child is old enough to look after themselves so there is no reason why a single mother cant get a part time job. Plus, the Irish state is going through a bit of a cash crisis.

Let us know how that tally goes, all I see around Galway these days is chef jobs. Its become a theme of government cuts at this stage to target those who can't speak out or defend themselves, and to make a big show about cuts which in reality won't add up to much (NUI, Dublin swimming pools, pensions; they thought oap's wouldn't fight back!) this is just another one of these acts of 'tough guy' cuts by an incompetent government.

North_West_Art · 29-05-2010 11:29AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I'll say this now and hopefully it will be enough for the whole thread:

1. The recession won't last forever
2. We have only been in recession for 2 years.

I can't stand when people make out that we've been slogging away with no jobs for the last 50 years.

In 1985, the ICI bank went under, resulting in the government having to bailout the AIB to the tune of IRL£403 million. To pay this off, a couple of quid was added onto each insurance policy the bank sold, plus a few other measures to try and make up the amount. This bailout bill is STILL being paid off today, 25 years later.
The NAMA bill is €73 Billion, now do the maths

dublinguy2004 · 29-05-2010 11:30AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

*facepalm*

Yes, it's all the women's fault!

Dear fúcking god.

Women who go out and get pregnant when there's no father around, expecting the State to pick up the tab, are stupid. I have lots of sympathy for deserted women (particularly when they're married and committed to each other both legally and socially), but find it hard to have any sympathy for women who are pregnant multiple times with multiple fathers and then crib and moan about "poverty". Meanwhile they're sitting smugly in their city-centre flat and watch their flat screen telly with no intention of ever working a day in their lives.

Family values and responsible parents is what's needed. This prevailing nanny State mentality that exists in Ireland is a disaster and people who go on and on about it are pathetic weak excuses for human beings.

MagicMarker · 29-05-2010 11:31AM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Women who go out and get pregnant when there's no father around, expecting the State to pick up the tab, are stupid. I have lots of sympathy for deserted women (particularly when they're married and committed to each other both legally and socially), but find it hard to have any sympathy for women who are pregnant multiple times with multiple fathers and then crib and moan about "poverty". Meanwhile they're sitting smugly in their city-centre flat and watch their flat screen telly with no intention of ever working a day in their lives.

Family values and responsible parents is what's needed. This prevailing nanny State mentality that exists in Ireland is a disaster and people who go on and on about it are pathetic weak excuses for human beings.

Chip, meet shoulder.

Offy · 29-05-2010 11:31AM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs? Particularly in a post-feminst world where working mothers are the norm.

Firstly Im not a woman. Secondly Surely young men should stand by their children and not leave it up to young women to raise their kids?

Truley · 29-05-2010 11:33AM

Pauleta wrote: »

We need to get rid of the culture of if you have kids the state will look after the children financially.

I suppose your kids wont be getting children's allowance, free dental care, eye checks, national primary education, university education, third level grants ... :rolleyes:

The amount of begrudgery that comes from these threads is mind boggling. Socail Policy from people who really haven't a clue. So what, a mother doesn't get the allowance, she may find a job, she very well may not. If she does she is expected to fork out for childcare, which she more than likely can't afford, and have someone else raise her kid. Purely for the sake of busy work to appear like she's not a drain on the 'taxpayer.' Have a look at how these schemes have worked out in America yeah. Raising children is a job, it's one of the few 'real' jobs that are out there. Get off your high horses and stop making up problems where there aren't any. Jeeeez.

Remember it takes two to tango and for every single parent there is absent one who has shirked all responsibility. Why not have a go at them for a change.

Hyperbullet · 29-05-2010 11:34AM

Offy wrote: »

Firstly Im not a woman. Secondly Surely young men should stand by their children and not leave it up to young women to raise their kids?

In an ideal society, that would be the case. Not so i'm afraid.

Mike 1972 · 29-05-2010 11:35AM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

people with flat screen tellies

Flat (and/or wide) screen tellies are not necessairly that expensive in this day and age. Indeed any other kind are starting to get a bit thin on the ground.

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Women who go out and get pregnant when there's no father around, .

Test tube babies ?

MagicMarker · 29-05-2010 11:35AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Test tube babies ?

I blame Jesus, the bastard!

wobblyknees · 29-05-2010 11:37AM

Is this payment for single/lone parents who aren't working and have children? So, if I understand it correctly, it's the standard jsa payment of €196 per week plus an extra €29.80 per child.

No. Of Children / Payment

1 / €225.80
2 / €255.60
3 / €285.40
4 / €315.20
5 / €345.00

Wow, seems to me your typical single parent is living the life of luxury alright.

To the usual high horse brigade who think every woman pushing a pram is sponging off the state by choice as, for example, the recession hasn't lasted for 50 years, when things were good, unemployment was very very low in Ireland.

This suggests to me that in general, most people want to, and will work if they can. There will always be those who take advantage of the system. It happens the world over and has to be monitored and dealt with obviously.

What should not be done is for a very cynical, broad brush stroke, controversial change to legislation be brought in on a Friday evening, when it will get little or no coverage as it is in fact no more than a money saving excercise on the governments part.

Hyperbullet · 29-05-2010 11:38AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I blame Jesus, the bastard!

Sure wasn't his aul wan claiming the social as well.

omahaid · 29-05-2010 11:38AM

Offy wrote: »

Ive been a single parent for over 10 years now. Legally 13 is old enough to leave a child alone but if you do you risk gardai giving you loads of headache (not just gardai either, look at all the people that will moan about a 13 year old left unattended) so you require childminding and in order to be able to afford that you need more than minimum wage.

My daughter is perfectly able to mind herself if I go shopping or whatever for a few hours and she's 11.

omahaid · 29-05-2010 11:40AM

I suppose as a reasonable measure, surely all the vanished dads should be made pay child support as well. It might be easier to swallow the lone parent allowance disappearing if all the dads paid their way too.

omahaid · 29-05-2010 11:41AM

brianthebard wrote: »

Let us know how that tally goes

Will do, know of a few part time jobs (shop assistant and the like) already.

Hyperbullet · 29-05-2010 11:44AM

omahaid wrote: »

I suppose as a reasonable measure, surely all the vanished dads should be made pay child support as well. It might be easier to swallow the lone parent allowance disappearing if all the dads paid their way too.

Reasonable measure? It should be mandatory. In the case of all suddenly "vanished" fathers the old saying should apply: "He who dips his wick, must pay for the oil"

dlofnep · 29-05-2010 11:46AM

Ah, our wonderful Government. They pick and choose when age counts.

Take for example college grants. Even as a mature student, if you live at home - you go on your parents income when being means-tested for a grant, despite not receiving anything from them and paying them digs.

But Mr. Government, they are over 23 and self-sufficient, why should they go on their parents income?

And now they want to cut welfare for women because their child has magically hit 13, which the only logic that I can see of being that the child can mind themselves. The Government is trying to force a wedge to fix the problems it created. They want:

Women to find jobs that don't exist.
Take training courses that have no merit.
Leave their child at home alone, which leaves less parental interaction - increasing that risk that their child will engage with crime. Especially in teen years, children from broken homes or single parent families tend to do not as well as children from normal families. And now, they want to even damage whatever good a single parent being present can do?

Seloth · 29-05-2010 11:48AM

omahaid wrote: »

My daughter is perfectly able to mind herself if I go shopping or whatever for a few hours and she's 11.

Ya but most kids mightend be.If its the odd time maybe but if a parent had to do it quite often as of a job it can be a bit damaging if they were by themselves.

I was shockedwhen I used to here my mates parents at 14/15 leaving them on their own for a week as they went on holiday!.17 ya but 14/15 are you kidding me hah.

Splendour · 29-05-2010 11:51AM

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Reasonable measure? It should be mandatory. In the case of all suddenly "vanished" fathers the old saying should apply: "He who dips his wick, must pay for the oil"

Problem with this is, the state don't make Dads pay even when there is the father is on the scene. I think before the government abolish lone parent payment, it should be mandatory for fathers to pay proper maintenance for their children.

Collie D · 29-05-2010 12:03PM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs? Particularly in a post-feminst world where working mothers are the norm.

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Women who go out and get pregnant when there's no father around, expecting the State to pick up the tab, are stupid. I have lots of sympathy for deserted women (particularly when they're married and committed to each other both legally and socially), but find it hard to have any sympathy for women who are pregnant multiple times with multiple fathers and then crib and moan about "poverty". Meanwhile they're sitting smugly in their city-centre flat and watch their flat screen telly with no intention of ever working a day in their lives.

Family values and responsible parents is what's needed. This prevailing nanny State mentality that exists in Ireland is a disaster and people who go on and on about it are pathetic weak excuses for human beings.

I grew up in a single parent family and believe me there was no "sitting smugly in a city centre flat" watching widescreen TVs. My mother worked hard and struggled to raise me and I am extremely thankful to her. Don;t try to bleat on that she's not a responsible parent just because my Dad couldn't be interested. I find your posts highly insulting.

omahaid · 29-05-2010 12:05PM

Splendour wrote: »

Problem with this is, the state don't make Dads pay even when there is the father is on the scene. I think before the government abolish lone parent payment, it should be mandatory for fathers to pay proper maintenance for their children.

Ya, thats pretty much what I meant (you phrased it better). If we're to cut off lone parents then we should also ensure that the absent parent should pay maintenance.

brianthebard · 29-05-2010 12:20PM

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Reasonable measure? It should be mandatory. In the case of all suddenly "vanished" fathers the old saying should apply: "He who dips his wick, must pay for the oil"

You've been watching too much Jeremy Kyle.

bogtotty · 29-05-2010 12:23PM

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs? Particularly in a post-feminst world where working mothers are the norm.

Working mothers being the norm ≠ a post-feminist world, as your statement testifies. Some women might open their legs ill-judgedly, but you don't seem to have any issue with the men who fill the gap. As long as 'loose' women are blamed for the ills of modern society, we're about as 'post-feminist' as the Old Testament.

matrim · 29-05-2010 12:40PM

Splendour wrote: »

Problem with this is, the state don't make Dads pay even when there is the father is on the scene. I think before the government abolish lone parent payment, it should be mandatory for fathers to pay proper maintenance for their children.

And before it should be mandatory for fathers to pay proper maintenance they should have equal rights regarding guardianship and custody of the kid.

Splendour · 29-05-2010 12:46PM

matrim wrote: »

And before it should be mandatory for fathers to pay proper maintenance they should have equal rights regarding guardianship and custody of the kid.

Absolutely! I was thinking of it from a separated/divorced viewpoint, but you are spot on, can't expect guys to pay maintenance if they're not give equal guardian rights. It should start when filling out the birth cert; the fathers name printed on cert should mean he has all the rights and responsibilities that go with being a father...

up for anything · 29-05-2010 12:50PM

omahaid wrote: »

Why can't they get a part time job or something when the child turns 13?

Find me one please that doesn't have four hundred desperate applicants. I'm willing to travel.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I'll say this now and hopefully it will be enough for the whole thread:

1. The recession won't last forever

No it won't but it will take the country years to recover from it especially in the area of employment.

Hyperbullet wrote: »

I agree, however if the parent is working for several years earning minimum wage and has 2 kids to look after, surely they deserve some assistance. I dont agree with parents who feckin live off the childrens allowance.

Child benefit is there to benefit the child. This can mean putting oil in the tank for central heating, paying the electricity bill, putting food on the table, shoes on their feet and clothes on their backs. What do you propose the parents should do with it?

dublinguy2004 wrote: »

Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs?

Perhaps young men should think twice before diving between a pair of opened legs. Also, why pick on 'young women'. There are single parents of all ages and both sexes.

omahaid wrote: »

My daughter is perfectly able to mind herself if I go shopping or whatever for a few hours and she's 11.

Tell that to the Judge when she has opened the door to some stranger or she has an accident or sets the house on fire or sits fretting about a noise she heard. She is a child at 11. She may know what to do in an emergency but when the chips are down, will she be capable of thinking rationally while panicking.

omahaid wrote: »

I suppose as a reasonable measure, surely all the vanished dads should be made pay child support as well.

Reasonable! Essential I would say. However, what percentage of the fathers' dole payments would you suggest as child support and who then will prevent the fathers from ending up on the streets.

pookie82 wrote: »

You need to ask if people should be entitled to these payouts for just having children.

Maybe not, but are you prepared to see the children in question suffer because their parents should not have had them or cannot manage?

The government should be working their bollixes off to create employment and not just minimum wage employment. Maybe I'm being a bit simplistic here but I'm fed up of them handing out my tax money that I have paid out over the years to prop up ailing banks with overpaid and bonused directors on one hand, and on the other then punishing me by cutting the benefit that I worked for all my life while 'demonising' me. PRSI is insurance to help you when you are in need. There is always condemnation and disgust when regular insurance companies try and swindle us on payouts but the government seems to get away with it.

I've been on social welfare now for six months and in my low moments, of which there are many, I have considered resorting to walking the ring road in search of casual employment in order to provide for my children. I don't see it as living on the pigs back but I may end up lying on my own back.

There are always so many 'I'm alright Jack' smug, self-satisfied posts on boards in relation to social welfare that I avoid these threads as a rule but I couldn't resist this one. I'm not usually a vindictive person but I hope all the posters on their moral high-horses come a cropper one of these days and maybe you'll see that any life choice can be a bad life choice when things go wrong. :mad:

changes · 29-05-2010 12:53PM

wobblyknees wrote: »

Is this payment for single/lone parents who aren't working and have children? So, if I understand it correctly, it's the standard jsa payment of €196 per week plus an extra €29.80 per child.

No. Of Children / Payment

1 / €225.80
2 / €255.60
3 / €285.40
4 / €315.20
5 / €345.00

Wow, seems to me your typical single parent is living the life of luxury alright.

It doesn't just stop at that. They will be entitles to either rent allowance or a council house, medical cards, Family Income Supplement (if they are bring in less than €500 per week).

Also of the 90,000 people in reciept of OPFP how many of those are co-habiting, how many have lied about not knowing the father and are either living with him or getting money off him without the knowledge of the state.

Its quite possible for a single parent to have her first child and 18, and her last at 43 and live out her entire adult life at the states expense.

Its only right this whole farce of a set up is finally being tackled.

Pauleta · 29-05-2010 12:57PM

Truley wrote: »

I suppose your kids wont be getting children's allowance, free dental care, eye checks, national primary education, university education, third level grants ... :rolleyes:

I dont have kids and i wont have a child because i cant afford to have a child. I use condoms. They cost less than children.

Noreen1 · 29-05-2010 01:03PM

Hmm..........

Even during the "Celtic Tiger" era, there were long waiting lists for Fas Courses - now that "cutbacks" have been introduced, the waiting lists have, in some cases/areas gone beyond the point where they might reasonably be classed as ridiculous.

We have record levels of unemployment, where University graduates struggle to find employment at minimum wage.

Most people are aware of at least one case, where teenage children have misbehaved - sometimes seriously - where there is a lack of parental supervision, even for a few days, in some cases.

Yet single parents are expected to:

A: Find work in a hugely competitive market - despite the fact that there are necessarily huge restrictions on either the hours they can work, or the wages they can afford to work for. (Assuming they wish to be responsible parents, and not engage in the neglect of their children - Most parents do want to be responsible, IMO)

or

B: Find a course - ideally a Third level course - despite the fact that there are long waiting lists for most bog-standard courses, and, there are restrictions on the courses single parents can accept, due to travel restrictions, financial considerations, child-minding limitations etc.

What a typically practical solution from our illustrious Government!:rolleyes:

Oh, wait - maybe it's just another vicious cost-cutting exercise - by an inept, uncaring, unscrupulous bunch of people in suits............?? Hmmm.
That being the case, it's even more disgusting than their usual antics!

Noreen

Single parents to lose welfare payment when child turns 13

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