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Single parents to lose welfare payment when child turns 13

  • 29-05-2010 10:29AM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0529/1224271393377.html
    SINGLE PARENTS whose youngest child is over 13 will no longer be able to claim one-parent family payments under the terms of new social welfare legislation published last evening.

    The change was described as “blunt and brutal” by Olwyn Enright, the Fine Gael spokeswoman on social protection, who accused Fianna Fáil of a cynical political move in releasing the information late on a Friday.

    Under the terms of the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2010 there will also be changes to disqualify people from collecting Jobseeker’s Allowance if they refuse an offer of suitable employment.

    The one-parent family payment is currently paid to a parent until the youngest child reaches 18, or 22, if the child is in full-time education.

    The Government said the changes would bring Ireland’s support for lone parents more in line with international provisions, where there is “a general movement away from long-term and passive income support”.

    It added that the current arrangements, whereby a lone parent can receive the allowance without any requirement for them to engage in employment, education or training, were not in the best interests of the recipient, their children or society.

    “Despite improvements made to the one-parent family payment over the years, a large proportion of lone parents and their children are still experiencing poverty,” it added.

    There were about 90,500 recipients of the payment at the end of last year, a 53 per cent increase since 1997.

    The total cost of the scheme in 2009 was €1.1 billion, compared to €338 million in 1997.

    The payment is made up of a personal rate for the parent of €196 a week with €29.80 for each additional qualified child. The amount depends on the weekly means of the parent.

    The Bill will be debated in the Oireachtas before the summer recess in early July.

    Ms Enright said the announcement had been made without any plan to help those in one-parent families into education and employment.

    “The decision to cut the payment is blunt and brutal and, damningly for the Government, is not backed up by a clear plan,” she said.

    Ms Enright said Minister for Social Protection Éamon Ó Cúív was ignoring that over 80 per cent of one-parent families were already engaged in education, training or work. She added that Fine Gael was very much in favour of encouraging people into work or training.

    “I know that the majority of people in receipt of social welfare want the opportunity to upskill, retrain or work,” she said.

    “It is a pity Fianna Fáil didn’t recognise the merits of this when the country had full employment and that they are only belatedly coming around to the notion now they see it as a way of saving money,” added Ms Enright.

    Even I don't see the logic behind this. Sure, like anything there are some of those who abuse the system, but a lot of people also depend on this extra income to support their children! Can't they at least bring in means testing to see who really needs it?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭easyeason3


    Random checks should be carried out in order to establish whether or not financial help ie required. Means testing can be a bit of a joke.

    Many, many single parents do need the help.

    But then there is the usual skanger that makes you wonder if they had children just to get handouts.


  • Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0529/1224271393377.html



    Even I don't see the logic behind this. Sure, like anything there are some of those who abuse the system, but a lot of people also depend on this extra income to support their children! Can't they at least bring in means testing to see who really needs it?
    It added that the current arrangements, whereby a lone parent can receive the allowance without any requirement for them to engage in employment, education or training, were not in the best interests of the recipient, their children or society.

    Good idea. All SW payments should move towards a model that promotes activity and punishes lifetime scrounging.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Good idea. All SW payments should move towards a model that promotes activity and punishes lifetime scrounging.
    Pushing people even further into poverty = bad idea.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82


    You need to ask if people should be entitled to these payouts for just having children. I know that sounds blunt, and I'm not trying to be rude - there are single mums in my family and I know how hard it is. However, we cannot as a state afford to support these mothers and children into their adulthood anymore. And for every genuine single mother out there trying to get by there's another popping out kids and getting houses and money from the state for their efforts.

    Something has got to give.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Why can't they get a part time job or something when the child turns 13?


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  • Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pushing people even further into poverty = bad idea.

    Or pushing people to be proactive about their own situation? There comes a point where people must take responsibility for themselves, you know. What is wrong with a little push for single parents to actually better themselves and their circumstances?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Or pushing people to be proactive about their own situation? There comes a point where people must take responsibility for themselves, you know. What is wrong with a little push for single parents to actually better themselves and their circumstances?

    I couldnt agree more, with all the jobs out there they have no excuse. While the push is on lets get rid of social welfare completely then we can really save some money for government expenditure. Maybe it would be possible to abort children if their parents arent together anymore or if their single? What about that for a solution?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    omahaid wrote: »
    Why can't they get a part time job or something when the child turns 13?
    Who, the child or the parent?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    omahaid wrote: »
    Why can't they get a part time job or something when the child turns 13?

    Maybe for the same reason people without children cant get jobs or do you think the recession is fictional?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Offy wrote: »
    I couldnt agree more, with all the jobs out there they have no excuse.

    *edit* I should have read the whole post :p


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Schism


    omahaid wrote: »
    Why can't they get a part time job or something when the child turns 13?

    Because there's few jobs available, especially ones that would suit a single parent.


  • Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'll say this now and hopefully it will be enough for the whole thread:

    1. The recession won't last forever
    2. We have only been in recession for 2 years.



    I can't stand when people make out that we've been slogging away with no jobs for the last 50 years.


  • Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Offy wrote: »
    I couldnt agree more, with all the jobs out there they have no excuse. While the push is on lets get rid of social welfare completely then we can really save some money for government expenditure. Maybe it would be possible to abort children if their parents arent together anymore or if their single? What about that for a solution?

    So you would disagree with a single parent being pushed to go do some training/upskilling etc?
    You think they should get to stay at home with the kids for 22 years on the taxpayers dollar? My mother was out working every day when I grew up, do you think she shouldn't have bothered?

    This bill is about REMOVING THE POVERTY TRAP that many people find themselves in. Bettering themselves. Taking some fcuking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭dublinguy2004


    Pushing people even further into poverty = bad idea.

    Could you explain what you mean by "poverty"? Does that include people with flat screen tellies and people who are able to go out and get locked a couple of times week courtesy of the State?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    I dunno where people get this idea that all of a sudden no one is in employment in the republic :confused: There are plenty part time jobs around, I'm going into town later and I will count the number of help wanted ad's around. At 13 the child is old enough to look after themselves so there is no reason why a single mother cant get a part time job. Plus, the Irish state is going through a bit of a cash crisis.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    So you would disagree with a single parent being pushed to go do some training/upskilling etc?
    You think they should get to stay at home with the kids for 22 years on the taxpayers dollar? My mother was out working every day when I grew up, do you think she shouldn't have bothered?

    This bill is about REMOVING THE POVERTY TRAP that many people find themselves in. Bettering themselves. Taking some fcuking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
    Training/up skilling costs money. How is taking money away from them going to encourage them?

    If the government were serious about encouraging single parents to better themselves then they should put some more thought into it. This is them just trying to save money, no more no less.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭Hyperbullet


    Does this affect single parent families where the parent is already working? If so thats f*cked up. I cant imagine trying to rear a child alone while earning minimum wage.


  • Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Training/up skilling costs money. How is taking money away from them going to encourage them?

    If the government were serious about encouraging single parents to better themselves then they should put some more thought into it. This is them just trying to save money, no more no less.

    Are you serious? There are so many programs to get unemployed people back through college/fas programs etc. You even get your way paid through them!

    You cannot be serious? Surely? Or do you just not have a clue what you are talking about? Perhaps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭easyeason3


    Training/up skilling costs money. How is taking money away from them going to encourage them?

    If the government were serious about encouraging single parents to better themselves then they should put some more thought into it. This is them just trying to save money, no more no less.


    If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. If you teach a man how to fish he will eat for life.

    The gravy train can't run forever & in my opinion these proposals will give people the motivation to get off their arse & get trained/ find work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭dublinguy2004


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Are you serious? There are so many programs to get unemployed people back through college/fas programs etc. You even get your way paid through them!

    You cannot be serious? Surely? Or do you just not have a clue what you are talking about? Perhaps.

    A ridiculous number of these courses are never completed. Most of them are a pile of meaningless ****e too. Designed to give soft middle class people with pass degrees cushy jobs and make the unemployed feel good about themselves after years of educational neglect, underperformance and bad personal decisions.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    So you would disagree with a single parent being pushed to go do some training/upskilling etc?
    You think they should get to stay at home with the kids for 22 years on the taxpayers dollar? My mother was out working every day when I grew up, do you think she shouldn't have bothered?

    This bill is about REMOVING THE POVERTY TRAP that many people find themselves in. Bettering themselves. Taking some fcuking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

    WOW what a load of nonsense. This bill is about cutting expenditure not removing the poverty trap as you claim.
    As regards your mom, I couldnt give a toss to be honest, if she wants to work when someone else raises her kids then thats her choice and equally if someone wants to raise their kids thats their choice.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Other than FÁS what is there? What kind of availability are there these days for FÁS courses? Is childcare paid for when you're upskilling? I'm sure an ECDL course will count for a lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭dublinguy2004


    Other than FÁS what is there? What kind of availability are there these days for FÁS courses? Is childcare paid for when you're upskilling? I'm sure an ECDL course will count for a lot.

    ECDL courses are a load of ****. Every Facebooking teenager in the country can figure out how to use Microsoft tools within a day. ECDL = part of Microsoft's marketing strategy.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    ECDL courses are a load of ****. Every Facebooking teenager in the country can figure out how to use Microsoft tools within a day. ECDL = part of Microsoft's marketing strategy.
    Sorry, I forgot the include the rolleyes to ensure it was known that I was taking the piss.

    Maybe they should learn how to drive a forklift instead?
    Or a delivery driver?
    Machine tool operator?

    GO FÁS!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    We need to get rid of the culture of if you have kids the state will look after the children financially.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    omahaid wrote: »
    I dunno where people get this idea that all of a sudden no one is in employment in the republic :confused: There are plenty part time jobs around, I'm going into town later and I will count the number of help wanted ad's around. At 13 the child is old enough to look after themselves so there is no reason why a single mother cant get a part time job. Plus, the Irish state is going through a bit of a cash crisis.

    Ive been a single parent for over 10 years now. Legally 13 is old enough to leave a child alone but if you do you risk gardai giving you loads of headache (not just gardai either, look at all the people that will moan about a 13 year old left unattended) so you require childminding and in order to be able to afford that you need more than minimum wage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭Hyperbullet


    Pauleta wrote: »
    We need to get rid of the culture of if you have kids the state will look after the children financially.

    I agree, however if the parent is working for several years earning minimum wage and has 2 kids to look after, surely they deserve some assistance. I dont agree with parents who feckin live off the childrens allowance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Other than FÁS what is there? What kind of availability are there these days for FÁS courses? Is childcare paid for when you're upskilling? I'm sure an ECDL course will count for a lot.

    Believe it or not a few years ago male lone parent could not claim the childminding allowance from FAS. I wes told that my ex could claim it but not me!!! I dont know if that has changed since '05.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭dublinguy2004


    Offy wrote: »
    Ive been a single parent for over 10 years now. Legally 13 is old enough to leave a child alone but if you do you risk gardai giving you loads of headache (not just gardai either, look at all the people that will moan about a 13 year old left unattended) so you require childminding and in order to be able to afford that you need more than minimum wage.

    Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs? Particularly in a post-feminst world where working mothers are the norm.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Surely young women should think about those little details before they open their legs? Particularly in a post-feminst world where working mothers are the norm.
    *facepalm*

    Yes, it's all the women's fault!

    Dear fúcking god.


This discussion has been closed.
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