[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Agamemnon · 25-05-2010 12:20AM

7

Foxtrol wrote: »

Though I agree with the majority of your post I have to disagree with you on the time travel part.

You're right, the time travel was more integral than I realised. I would prefer though if the sci-fi parts of it had more meaning in themselves, rather than being just manifestations of the magic. More balance between the science and faith aspects would have been better, rather than faith winning out. But I did realise in the last few episodes that they were downplaying the sci-fi side so I was happy enough with the ending. And Maggie Grace (NSFW).

prinz · 25-05-2010 12:20AM

9

budgemook wrote: »

Washed him up a big wall about 30 feet high?

There was more than one way in. MIB's body washed out too. In one side, out another.

budgemook wrote: »

Between different times, no problem. Between being alive and dead?

It takes imagination.

blandatious · 25-05-2010 12:20AM

blandatious wrote: »

A query: Claire's baby (aaron) i think was in the church at the end.
This would mean Aaron died as a baby i think. During the time when
Kate returned to the US Aaron had become a young boy. I think we are
working on the theory that they did actually leave the island and return
and only the FST scenes did not actually occur. A lot of "i think"'s there
but has anyone any opinion on this? Is there an explanation i am overlooking?

sorry for reposting but it's bugging me and will get swept away with all the posts. I cant resolve the above in my head

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 12:21AM

Josey Wales wrote: »

I'm still confused by the ending. I assume that none of the events shown in seasons 1 - 6 actually happened. It was all just in Jacks imagination as he lay dying after the plane crash.

There were no other survivors as they showed the crash site during the credits and there was no people around. Therefore nobody survived the crash.

No. It all happened. It all happened as you saw it from season 1 to 5. In season 6 half of what you saw properly happened - the parts on the island. The FST was purgatory.

Christian Shephard SAYS this to Jack.

Everything that happened was real. The time on the island was the most important of your life. This is a place you created to meet before moving on.

I thought it was quite a clear explanation given in the pivotal scene in the ep/season/series.

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 12:23AM

blandatious wrote: »

sorry for reposting but it's bugging me and will get swept away with all the posts. I cant resolve the above in my head

No. the age you see people in the FST is not an intimation of when they died. Again, Christian says this - Some died before you, Some died long after you. There is no 'now' here.

Time, and the perception of people, is not important in Purgatory.

budgemook · 25-05-2010 12:23AM

prinz wrote: »

There was more than one way in. MIB's body washed out too. In one side, out another.

No, he got thrown out and landed on a tree no? Also Jack ended up right where he entered. It could be like one of the seven wonders of Fore in Westmeath I suppose - The water that runs up hill

prinz wrote: »

It takes imagination.

Ah I know, I just found that bit a bit stupid. I love Lost, was happy enough with alot of the madness but when I realised it was purgatory that was the one thing making me think "but it doesn't make sense"

A Neurotic · 25-05-2010 12:23AM

7

All this craic of Ben and Ana-Lucia and Eloise and Faraday not being ready to move on "yet" is completely at odds with the concept of purgatory/FST being timeless.

prinz · 25-05-2010 12:23AM

9

blandatious wrote: »

sorry for reposting but it's bugging me and will get swept away with all the posts. I cant resolve the above in my head

Claire was pregnant when she arrived to the island. It was her important time. The most important time of her life - the island and giving birth. AAron being a baby doesn't mean he died as a baby.

Foxtrol · 25-05-2010 12:24AM

9

mewso wrote: »

Wow amazing how different people are. Comparing it to Harry Potter or Star Wars as someone else did is so way off the mark it's unbelievable. Comparing it to wanting a history of Baltimore to enjoy the Wire is even worse.

Well it depends what you were looking for. In Star Wars were you happy to accept the force or were you one of the people who wanted the background & were disappointed in Mediclorians? In Harry Potter did you want to understand the magic or accept it as part of the books? For the Wire did you need to be hand fed the history of the police force or the drug gangs or did you accept what was put in front of you? For all those (except Harry Potter which I never got into) and Lost I enjoyed the story not the desire to be given answers to every single bit of background. Someone posted earlier a quote from the writer of BSG "Its about the Characters, Stupid!". I agree.

I posted this link this morning which I might as well post again seeing as its very unlikely people are reading back that far now.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/05/lost-if-you-come-with-me-ill-show-you-what-i-mean.html

I'd rather keep the box closed.

Mr Freeze · 25-05-2010 12:24AM

6

It was all going so well, I was looking forward to coming on here and given it a 9, possibly a 10...But too soon I thought that, Jack opened the coffin, and what followed completely ruined the episode for me.

Dammit, I don't know what to make of that ending now.

Edit: now to go back and read the previous 880 posts!

lmaopml · 25-05-2010 12:25AM

9

I think it might be a mistake to call it purgatory? Another poster mentioned a few pages back that the room Jacks fathers coffin was in had various religious symbols in it......It just seems to be a 'middle place' where people either sort out things they obviously regret doing in some instances, and in other instances things they actually never got the chance to do...

Have to laugh at Jacks Da's name though, that never struck me before Kate mentioned, 'Your kidding, Christian Sheppard'

Little ramble....

In the long run perhaps the Island and it's powers of life, death and re-birth etc. made it possible for them to make the connection again with eachother in the 'middle state' through Desmond as a way of thanking them for the time they had already spent there on the island in order to fulfill Jacobs wish of protecting it....Perhaps they got a special 'get out of the middle state early' card once they all died to move on together....

I don't think the middle state was about atonement, I think it was moreso about tying up lose ends...However for Ben who was left behind it was more about 'atonement' because he was aware of his previous life.

End of ramble:)

and I'd just like to add, I kinda liked Jack boring and all as he was at times, he played the part well........Hurley was a firm favorite of mine though..and I loved Ben too...

ibFoxer · 25-05-2010 12:25AM

9

Did anyone catch the segment on the News on RTE2 about it?

Creasy_bear · 25-05-2010 12:29AM

Can someone answer this for me ..........

Sawyer and the others left on the plane in the end .............did they actually get off the island ?

Then Jack dies .........how come everyone was ready to move on at the exact same time re - when Jack is ready

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 12:29AM

A Neurotic wrote: »

All this craic of Ben and Ana-Lucia and Eloise and Faraday not being ready to move on "yet" is completely at odds with the concept of purgatory/FST being timeless.

timeless in terms of what it is. We are still human and would percieve it with time as a factor, as we would have to. Otherwise Purgatory would, at the same time, exist for eternity and be finished without ever starting.

johnny_ultimate · 25-05-2010 12:30AM

9

blandatious wrote: »

sorry for reposting but it's bugging me and will get swept away with all the posts. I cant resolve the above in my head

OK, will try and explain this one more time, has been said loads of time before (not being short or anything though, hopefully will answer your question).

The 'purgatory' takes place at some unspecified time in the future. This could be centuries, millenia, whatever. At this point, everyone who has survived the activity on the island has died. This does not mean they died at the end of the episode. Many of them may well have died at an extremely old age, Ben and Hurley in particular.

This purgatory timeline takes place at an unspecified time, and in fact time may not even be an issue. Once everyone has died, they have been gathered in this place - through vague philosophical ideas suggested by Christian - to reunite and realise how important they were all to each other. Only then can they 'move on' fulfilled.

Now, the reason everyone is the same age is because they were all familiar with each other from their island days. Aaron is a child because he was a child on the island (even though he could have died in his 100s, or his 20s, whatever). Charlie is a good example - he appears to Claire as he was when he died. Claire instantly recognises him. However, if Claire had appeared at her actual death age, than Charlie may not have had that revelation that was required.

Not everything was explained about the purgatory, and plenty is left up to the imagination (did Hurley and Ben create it, for example). But the basics are relatively clear: the purgatory is not the island, it is totally seperate to that time line. It takes place somewhere, or sometime in the future, a time which remains pleasantly unspecified. Everyone is the same as they were on the island - IMO anyway - because it had to be that way for the characters to reach the insight required to move on. Familiarity was a necessity.

The only people who got off the island alive were the six in the plane, and the likes of Aaron who were off it before the return of the Oceanic Six. Everyone else - bar Hurley, Desmond and Ben - had died (alone

) and they were only finally reunited in this purgatory.

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 12:32AM

Creasy_bear wrote: »

Can someone answer this for me ..........

Sawyer and the others left on the plane in the end .............did they actually get off the island ?

Then Jack dies .........how come everyone was ready to move on at the exact same time re - when Jack is ready

1. Yes, imo they did.
2. They all moved on together, it is simply Jack was the last to understand. Kate and Claire had only found out (by their and our perception of events) about an hour before. It played out that way cause that is what fit the story being told. In 'reality' Jack may have found out at any time before the others for some other reason - in LOST it is simply that the writers did not write it that way.

Dr.Slurm · 25-05-2010 12:32AM

9

Just watched it there and I really enjoyed it.

While this "Flash Sideways/Purgatory" business might not make much sense, it certainly was nice to see the original gang together and happy one last time.

A fitting end to a very cool show.

Creasy_bear · 25-05-2010 12:32AM

lmaopml wrote: »

I think it might be a mistake to call it purgatory? Another poster mentioned a few pages back that the room Jacks fathers coffin was in had various religious symbols in it......It just seems to be a 'middle place' where people either sort out things they obviously regret doing in some instances, and in other instances things they actually never got the chance to do...

Have to laugh at Jacks Da's name though, that never struck me before Kate mentioned, 'Your kidding, Christian Sheppard'

Little ramble....

In the long run perhaps the Island and it's powers of life, death and re-birth etc. made it possible for them to make the connection again with eachother in the 'middle state' through Desmond as a way of thanking them for the time they had already spent there in order to fulfill Jacobs wish of protecting the Island....Perhaps they got a special 'get out of the middle state early' card once they all died to move on together....

I don't think the middle state was about atonement, I think it was moreso about tying up lose ends...However for Ben who was left behind it was more about 'atonement' because he was aware of his previous life.

End of ramble:)

and I'd just like to add, I kinda liked Jack boring and all as he was at times, he played the part well........Hurley was a firm favorite of mine though..and I loved Ben too...

I don't get this

seadnamac · 25-05-2010 12:33AM

5

jimbling wrote: »

I wasn't stuck on David at all. I was just using it to point out that Anthony Cooper didnt matter either. Neither were real.
I thought Lockes absolute statement of that was pretty convincing on the matter.

But I have been wrong before

jimbling wrote: »

I don't think so.

The "Purgatory" as we are calling it was created by all the people for whom the island was of ultimate importance. Lockes dad is not really there, he's just filler for Lockes "Purgatory".

EDIT: Jack doesn't even have a son!!!!

seadnamac wrote: »

Christian says to Jack;

"They're all real, everything that ever happened to you is real"

How does this tie into what we saw in purgatory? He goes to see his son play piano, he operates on Locke, he flies on a plane, he does everyday mundane stuff.

So is Jack to believe that this was all real, even though the consensus is that he was dead?

Christian didn't make a distinction between the on island stuff and the FST stuff when he said it was all real.

This is the line being used to generally to support the consensus that the island life was real and the FST was purgatory (I'm not neccessarily disagreeing by the way, before someone gets their knickers in a twist), but if everything that happened after Jack was dead was just as real as everything that happened before then, then the line between the two becomes a bit less clear in my opinion.

As above, Christian tells Jack that EVERYTHING he has experienced is real and everyone he has known is real. He doesn't make a distinction between his life in purgatory and his island life. Are we not to assume that Jack should assume his son to have been real aswell? And thus, everything else in the FST, as suggested by Christian, to be real?

And if everything that happened after Jack died was just as real as everything that happened beforehand, then is the line between what was reality and what came after it not somewhat blurred?

Mr Freeze · 25-05-2010 12:34AM

6

foxerv1 wrote: »

Did anyone catch the segment on the News on RTE2 about it?

What they say about it?

Mitch Connor · 25-05-2010 12:36AM

Creasy_bear wrote: »

I don't get this

Christian as in the religion.

Shepard as in... a shepherd.

A Christain guider of people.

Kate also, at the time, knew it was purgatory and that they were leaving to the next stage of the afterlife, so a Christian Sheppard would be rather amusing.

RolandIRL · 25-05-2010 12:36AM

7

by the time i get back on this thread tomorrow afternoon, the post count will probably be up at 1400 or something. lots of reading for the summer

night all. good chatting with ye

blandatious · 25-05-2010 12:37AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No. the age you see people in the FST is not an intimation of when they died. Again, Christian says this - Some died before you, Some died long after you. There is no 'now' here.

Time, and the perception of people, is not important in Purgatory.

but the inference is that Ben was waiting to move on with Alex, as was Eloise waiting for Daniel. Would it not make more sense for Claire to wait in purgatory until Aaron was ready to move on? I dont think the scene in the chuch was FST or purgatory, i think they had moved beyond it. Jack really reunites with his father in the afterlife. All the people in the church may have been greeted by someone gone before them. Thats what i get from it anyway. Jack and Kate would know Aaron as a toddler. It just doesn't tie up.

Sad Professor · 25-05-2010 12:39AM

9

lmaopml wrote: »

I think it might be a mistake to call it purgatory?

I'm inclined to agree. It's useful to think of it as a kind of purgatory. But purgatory has all sorts of other connotations which tbh I just don't like or agree with and doesn't fit with the Sideways. It's all open to interpretation of course.

R.Shackleford · 25-05-2010 12:40AM

9

I really dont know what to make of the plane flying over head at the end.

MisterAnarchy · 25-05-2010 12:40AM

7

A Good Explanation of the final for people still confused

In the final confrontation. Desmond was the only person who could go down into the light and unplug the cork. By unplugging the cork. The island lost all power. When the island lost all power ALL THE RULES COULD NOW BE BROKEN. Smokey/MIB lost all of his powers which made him mortal again but at the same time he could now kill the candidates directly. At the same time the island without its power was being destroyed…probably the whole world was being destroyed like “Mother” told her kids on what would happen if the light went out.

So MIB was now mortal and after a confrontation with Jack, he was finally killed. But the island needed to be re-plugged. Jack did this and sacrificed himself for the island. Hurley was left to be the new Jacob and Ben was his new “Richard” It appears that they had a successful long future not unseen but as Hurley told Ben in the ALT (which I am going to get into) “you were a good number 2” Ben: you were a good number 1” As for the people on the plane it appears that they escaped the island and probably lived happy lives back in the main land. The ones probably back in the island lived happy lives, like Rose Bernard, Cindy and the kids. As for Desmond he probably was able to get back to his family as well thanks to Hurley and Ben. Jack’s dying body was thrown out of the cave (like MIB’s body In Across the sea). He laid there dying looking up when Vincent came over and as he looked up and saw that the Ajira plane had been able to leave. He closed his eye and died.

Eventually like everyone does, they all died, from old age or however. (including Richard who started to finally age). Hurley probably died long after everyone else once he found his own candidate. When they finally died their “spirits” joined the others who had died before during the course of the series, they were in this type of “purgatory” which in season 6 was the ALT reality. Once in this purgatory, once they “woke up” or realized that they were in reality dead. They were able to “cross-over” probably to a type of heaven depending on your spiritual views. They lived happily ever after, in the great beyond.

dyl10 · 25-05-2010 12:40AM

5

What about the magic numbers?

cooker3 · 25-05-2010 12:42AM

889 replies, Jesus Christ.

I've just watched it. Not read 1 thing about it but I just want to say after 6 years I can finally say
JACK DIES!!!
**** yeah.

ibFoxer · 25-05-2010 12:43AM

9

CKWPORT wrote: »

What they say about it?

Just that it was over, and the voiceover asked was it all a dream? Did it really happen? etc.

Had 2 fans watching it,they went to their house to film them watching (creepy). They seemed pretty happy with the outcome. All i noticed really was the "casual"* placement of the lost boxsets.

*For casual insert "look at me and my lost boxsets, i'm a huge fan i am" :P

podge018 · 25-05-2010 12:43AM

9

When they finally died their “spirits” joined the others who had died before during the course of the series, they were in this type of “purgatory” which in season 6 was the ALT reality.

That's the part I can't get. When did this start. Were they born in the alt reality? Somebody said earlier it started on the plane but..... I don't buy that.

[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]