What are we going to do with the sh*t stirrers after tomorrow?

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

totally agree, but I just think we could have taken a leaf out of Obama's book on this much earlier.

In the states, the bankers were dragged to court in leg chains on TV.
If we had done the same here, at least the govt would have been 'seen' to be doing something.

i know it sounds like a small thing, but the effect of those visual images are very important to the ordinary man/woman in a situation like this, imo.

It might have helped keep the pressure cooker lid from blowing.

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darkman2 wrote: »

So just do nothing then and let a few scumbags drive us into real bankruptcy and the hands of the IMF - whilst watching the multinationals possibly question being here because they think, in their ignorance abroad, that this country may be becoming unstable in a societal sense.

Let them attack the Gardai tomorrow - arrest them - and treat them harshly. Impose prison sentences if needed. I understand the impracticality of stopping them trying to attack the Gardaí before hand.

We're already bankrupt; the scumbags responsible though, are unlikely to be at this protest.
If there are some who cause trouble, i.e. attack the Gardai, then the Gardai should deal with them in the manner they have been trained to.
And the courts can deal with them after that.

I've got it!!!!
we find out where they live and.................wait for it........

riot outside their houses

that ones free guys

Well, I hate to say it, but part of me honestly thinks this recession isn't 'all bad' in many respects.

During the Celtic Tiger I met/knew plenty of people who immersed themselves, full on, in the whole thing, and in allowing themselves to be swept away with it all, ended up with their heads so far up their arses, they almost cured their own piles.

It's a long overdue reality check/levelling ground in many ways, not a bad thing really. I mean, how many people did you ever meet in the 80's or 90's in an 'ordinary' job, who had 2 houses, and/or a foreign apartment?

Let's be honest, plenty of people in the know, warned us about this, but nobody would listen, and kept voting FF in again and again, before all this happened.

Having said that, one upside to all this, is that FF are still in Government right now, and have to clean up their own shit, instead of leaving it for someone else, as they have done so many times in the past.

i'll be there tomorrow night anyway. There were many groups represented at the last march, only one tried to run in through the gates. A bit of a scuffle and people talk as if the cabinet had been machine-gunned and the country in chaos.

Fintan O'Toole in today's Times

But the other threat to the right to peaceful protest is hysteria about the very notion of people taking to the streets. Here is the official statement issued by the Oireachtas last Tuesday evening after the now-infamous skirmish: “A small scale protest took place outside the gates of the Houses of the Oireachtas building this evening. A small number of protesters attempted to gain access to the confines of Leinster House, however, contrary to media reports, they did not gain entry to the parliament buildings or its grounds but were stopped by the gardaí. This incident in no way impinged on the business or workings of the Irish parliament or government.”

Yet this small incident that had no effect on anything was transmuted in the telling into a “storming of the Dáil”, a “riot” and a harbinger of anarchy and murder. Almost every discussion of it included some reference to Greece and the murders of three bank employees. By Sunday, the Sunday Independent was leading with “Gardaí train in secret for riots: Fears of Greek-style violence stirred in wake of Dáil attack by protesters”. You had to read the report quite carefully to realise that it referred to routine training.

I got caught up in this hysteria myself when Senator Terry Leyden accused me (under parliamentary privilege) of having incited a riot outside Leinster House. Senator Leyden has undertaken to withdraw that allegation in the Senate today, and I have no desire to go on about it. (The undertaking was given to Joe Duffy on Liveline, which surely makes it as solemn and sacred as a vow consecrated by the pope in the Middle Ages.) Apart from the irony that telling people they are “citizens of a free republic” can be construed as incitement to riot, what matters is the impulse to criminalise all forms of public demonstration.

There's a saying I heard on Pat Kenny Tonight

"If you're going to kick a dog ? Don't kick a big angry one with teeth, kick a blind one with one leg"

It sums up for me the way FF have treated all of the ordinary Irish people, before and since all of this started.

As I said already, the bankers were let off scott free, when they should have had their assets seized, served time for professional negligence, and released years later, to spend the rest of their lives living in a small semi-d, banned from holding positions on the board of a bank, or private company ever again.

While some were raking in millions through tax breaks, dividents and backhanders, the health service was allowed to go to rack and ruin, and gangs of armed career criminals were running amok through the length and breath of the country, making a laugh of our outdated laws.

The legal profession got rich on tribunials, and endless appeals to the courts over our retarded, clumsy and unworkable asylum and immigration policy, and the 'claim culture' perpetuated during the Celtic Tiger, and I could go on.

Nobody would like to see rioting tomorrow, but I think it's important that the government see the people outside. To witness enough people turn out and say 'Enough is enough! We are fed up being laughed at, patronised, and screwed!'

Now is the time to push for real change all around. I honestly think Legal reform, and if desired, or necessary, the drawing up of a new constitution is needed, to weed out the cliques and cartels that have enslaved and exploited the ordinary citizen who just want's to get on with his/her life. Our current constitution represents a country that no longer exists. We should push to change it so that it reflects a modern Ireland.

If we carry on without making these changes, and making examples of those who have conned, swindled and shat all over us, were just going to get more of the same in the future from the next lot.

Much and all as I support the march tomorrow, I am cognisant of the possible damage 'rioting' will cause, and would not like to see anyone killed or injured in violent acts, that may prove detremental to our economic future.

If you're as angry with the Govt, as I will be at the next election, then that is the time to give them the cosmic screwing they deserve, like it's their first night in the Joy. The important thing is to keep the pressure on until then, and lobby your TD for changes like the ones I mentioned above. Real changes, and not empty platitudes.

once again, remember the old saying...

"If you're going to kick a dog ? Don't kick a big angry one with teeth, kick a blind one with one leg"

... come election time, it's the Govt that will be the blind dog with one leg, and not we, the people. Let's make that time 'Payback Time'

By all means protest tomorrow, it is your right if you want to, and show our collective anger disgust, but lets just be sensible about it too.

</rant>

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Considering your complete opposition to protests, may I ask when YOU intend to do? Other than drop your trousers and bend over?

Amen to that...

Seriously. Irish people are a bunch of subservient... sheep. Unfortunately the situation is probably gonna just go on and on like this until there is some sort of "disturbance". god forbid. Imagine. An actual protest with some pushing and shoving. Oh deary me. Years of the the repression by the brits and then the catholic church have left me completely impotent and flaccid in my opposition to FF and the bankers and everything else that is corrupt and immoral about this country. I guess I'll just lube up some more and take it though. What else can I do. When the new property tax comes in and your down another couple of 1000euro will people still just shake their heads and take it. Of course they will. In Greece they actually had placards in Greek proclaiming "this is Greece, not Ireland, we won't just take it". So the international community also know we take it. lol. Funny.
I think alot of us were probably earning more money 2 years ago then we are now due to pay freeze/unemployment and/or budget increases. I'm not going to get into the NAMA thing, but basically we all (and our yet to be born great grandchildren) are paying for this, and the banks thank us by refusing to lend out any money to stimulate the economy. In fact to say thanks they have inceased mortgage rates instead. Meanwhile the directors are still getting bonus payments on top of their 400 - 500k salaries (even though our finance minister promised this would not happen if we all bailed out the banks). zzzzzz... all I have to say is... bend over some more. I sometimes wonder would there be a "tipping point". Maybe if the government took an extra 30% out of your weekly expenditure. 40%? maybe 50%? nope. I think most people would just bemoan how bad things are and carry on.
I don't care about anyones IQ or ulterior motives for causing hassle in a protest. Just like I don't care if the public sector bring the country to its knees with strikes of cuts in their pay. ANYTHING that will bring about change in this country is GOOD.