What are we going to do with the sh*t stirrers after tomorrow?

darkman2

Just watching Vincient Brown just there. One of the organisers of tomorrows Dáil protest was on being ambiguous of course as to whether he would condone the inevitable trouble there will be from a minority of not too bright sh*t stirrers and scumbags that will be there.

They claim to be protesting against the bankers *snigger* (these thugs have the IQ of an average child aged 8) and the poor unfortunates losing their jobs etc. Even during the boom they were unemployable.

I am very concerned about the damage a riot or anything resembling it beamed around the world would do to Ireland - we will be immediately put into the dangerous category with Greece (the British press in particular would be salavating sensing the blood of another EU state) and the consequences would be far far worse then what even the most irresponsible and stupid top bank officials have done to this country.

For the record I want this government out and I am very angry like everyone else but this is not the time with Europe so unstable to be having this sort of attention drawn to us by a minority of people who just don't seem to get the damage this could do.

So if there is trouble tomorrow evening what should be done? Personally id be even more pissed off at some stupid anarchist pushing our costs of borrowing up because his mug ends up on Sky News then what got us here in the first place.

And remember these groups have agendas aswell - agendas most right minded Irish people don't support IMO.

Mr Benevolent

Basically, this is a copycat riot. 'Look Ma, we cun riot too! Yeehaw!'

starbelgrade

Let's go down there & kick the rioters heads in. That'll sort the problem out.

x PyRo

Let's go down and kick Vincent Brown's head in.

Can't stand that man!

darkman2

Confab wrote: »

Basically, this is a copycat riot. 'Look Ma, we cun riot too! Yeehaw!'

Under normal circumstances id see the funny side to your post but it is actually quite serious the consequences in the circumstances a very small minority of idiots can have.

marcsignal

I appreciate your concerns darkman2, but I can't blame people being angry all the same. If the govt wanted to avoid this scenario, they should have shown some balls and fired ALL of those connected with this crisis, in terms of bankers, not rewarded them with golden handshakes, and a bit of a takling to.

Also, to allow some of them actually take up similar positions, pertaining to the recovery, is a gross insult to the Irish people.:mad:

If the govt want the respect of the people, they should show us some.
However, you are right, it could be very damaging, and that's a shame.

.

darkman2

marcsignal wrote: »

I appreciate your concerns darkman2, but I can't blame people being angry all the same.
.

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

ascanbe

What do you recommend, OP? Preemptive arrests?
Lock up everyone in the country you don't like the look of? I mean, you're obviously some kind of oracle.

marcsignal

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

totally agree, but I just think we could have taken a leaf out of Obama's book on this much earlier.

In the states, the bankers were dragged to court in leg chains on TV.
If we had done the same here, at least the govt would have been 'seen' to be doing something.

i know it sounds like a small thing, but the effect of those visual images are very important to the ordinary man/woman in a situation like this, imo.

It might have helped keep the pressure cooker lid from blowing.

.

darkman2

ascanbe wrote: »

What do you recommend, OP? Preemptive arrests?
Lock up everyone in the country you don't like the look of? I mean' you're obviously some kind of oracle.

So just do nothing then and let a few scumbags drive us into real bankruptcy and the hands of the IMF - whilst watching the multinationals possibly question being here because they think, in their ignorance abroad, that this country may be becoming unstable in a societal sense.

Let them attack the Gardai tomorrow - arrest them - and treat them harshly. The situation in this country is way beyond this type of fcuking around tbh. Impose prison sentences if needed. I understand the impracticality of stopping them trying to attack the Gardaí before hand.

ascanbe

darkman2 wrote: »

So just do nothing then and let a few scumbags drive us into real bankruptcy and the hands of the IMF - whilst watching the multinationals possibly question being here because they think, in their ignorance abroad, that this country may be becoming unstable in a societal sense.

Let them attack the Gardai tomorrow - arrest them - and treat them harshly. Impose prison sentences if needed. I understand the impracticality of stopping them trying to attack the Gardaí before hand.

We're already bankrupt; the scumbags responsible though, are unlikely to be at this protest.
If there are some who cause trouble, i.e. attack the Gardai, then the Gardai should deal with them in the manner they have been trained to.
And the courts can deal with them after that.

Offy

darkman2 wrote: »

Let them attack the Gardai tomorrow - arrest them - and treat them harshly. The situation in this country is way beyond this type of fcuking around tbh. Impose prison sentences if needed. I understand the impracticality of stopping them trying to attack the Gardaí before hand.

My fear is that the gardai will attack them and kick off a massive riot.

KevinVonSpiel

If a riot kicks off, then it should be immediately locked & all the participants given 3 day bans.

&, by the way, what kind of trousers are always involved?

Partici-pants.

It's actually a friend's joke. He works for a Xmas cracker joke company.

darkman2

ascanbe wrote: »

We're already bankrupt.

We are NOT bankrupt so long as we can pay the interest on our debt. If we were bankrupt the pensioners complaining tonight would have NO pension at all. The Public workers would have NO wages at all. The Dole collectors would have NO dole at all. It would be like Somalia - which cannot be ruled out btw - we are depending on the stretched forebarence of the Germans atm who are getting very pissed off and may even pull the plug. Then you will know what it is like to live in a truly bankrupt country.

Im fed up with people who do not know what bankruptcy is claiming the state is bankrupt.

kieran26

I've got it!!!!
we find out where they live and.................wait for it........

riot outside their houses

that ones free guys

ascanbe

darkman2 wrote: »

We are NOT bankrupt so long as we can pay the interest on our debt. If we were bankrupt the pensioners complaining tonight would have NO pension at all. The Public workers would have NO wages at all. The Dole collectors would have NO dole at all. It would be like Somalia - which cannot be ruled out btw - we are depending on the stretched forebarence of the Germans atm who are getting very pissed off and may even pull the plug. Then you will know what it is like to live in a truly bankrupt country.

Im fed up with people who do not know what bankruptcy is claiming the state is bankrupt.

When you're dependent on the 'stretched forbearance' of another party, you are, essentially, bankrupt.
I'd be happier if we were attempting to take control of our own financial destiny instead of bailing out banks; anyway that's a whole other thread.
Hopefully cool heads will prevail tomorrow, on both sides; if there are some people who cause trouble, hopefully the Gardai will deal with them effectively.

recylingbin

I'll probably demonstrate my disdain for the proletariat by going onto an internet message forum and sneering at their efforts, while simulataneously saying that something must be done about the government and bitching about the state of the country.

That'll show everybody.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

darkman2 wrote: »

Just watching Vincient Brown just there. One of the organisers of tomorrows Dáil protest was on being ambiguous of course as to whether he would condone the inevitable trouble there will be from a minority of not too bright sh*t stirrers and scumbags that will be there.

They claim to be protesting against the bankers *snigger* (these thugs have the IQ of an average child aged 8) and the poor unfortunates losing their jobs etc. Even during the boom they were unemployable.

I am very concerned about the damage a riot or anything resembling it beamed around the world would do to Ireland - we will be immediately put into the dangerous category with Greece (the British press in particular would be salavating sensing the blood of another EU state) and the consequences would be far far worse then what even the most irresponsible and stupid top bank officials have done to this country.

For the record I want this government out and I am very angry like everyone else but this is not the time with Europe so unstable to be having this sort of attention drawn to us by a minority of people who just don't seem to get the damage this could do.

So if there is trouble tomorrow evening what should be done? Personally id be even more pissed off at some stupid anarchist pushing our costs of borrowing up because his mug ends up on Sky News then what got us here in the first place.

And remember these groups have agendas aswell - agendas most right minded Irish people don't support IMO.

Considering your complete opposition to protests, may I ask when YOU intend to do? Other than drop your trousers and bend over?

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

I know that turns you on Ikky Poo but...

- please try to read more then the OP.

bigeasyeah

Dey tuk ar jurbs!

marcsignal

Well, I hate to say it, but part of me honestly thinks this recession isn't 'all bad' in many respects.

During the Celtic Tiger I met/knew plenty of people who immersed themselves, full on, in the whole thing, and in allowing themselves to be swept away with it all, ended up with their heads so far up their arses, they almost cured their own piles.

It's a long overdue reality check/levelling ground in many ways, not a bad thing really. I mean, how many people did you ever meet in the 80's or 90's in an 'ordinary' job, who had 2 houses, and/or a foreign apartment?

Let's be honest, plenty of people in the know, warned us about this, but nobody would listen, and kept voting FF in again and again, before all this happened.

Having said that, one upside to all this, is that FF are still in Government right now, and have to clean up their own shit, instead of leaving it for someone else, as they have done so many times in the past.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

darkman2 wrote: »

I know that turns you on Ikky Poo but...

- please try to read more then the OP.

Bull****. Sorry, but no. You hate protesters becaseu they've got more balls than you. That are you're scared of liberals.

If I'm wrong, why were you so gleeful after the Anglo Irish protest here, despite the fact that the Irish Times article you linked to reported no violence from the protesters?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055912244

Guya

darkman2 wrote: »

I am very concerned about the damage a riot or anything resembling it beamed around the world would do to Ireland - we will be immediately put into the dangerous category with Greece (the British press in particular would be salavating sensing the blood of another EU state) and the consequences would be far far worse then what even the most irresponsible and stupid top bank officials have done to this country.

Here's a newsflash for you dark lad. It's not a secret that this economy is in ruin. Here's an article from today's FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/67ae51e2-5e35-11df-8153-00144feab49a.html

You don't know what to do so you are following the conventional wisdom that got us into this mess. This thread is what you're looking for.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944

By vilifying the peaceful marchers you are siding with bankers.

darkman2

Guya wrote: »

Here's a newsflash for you dark lad. It's not a secret that this economy is in ruin. Here's an article from today's FT.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/67ae51e2-5e35-11df-8153-00144feab49a.html

You don't know what to do so you are following the conventional wisdom that got us into this mess. This thread is what you're looking for.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944

By vilifying the peaceful marchers you are siding with bankers.

Bullsh*t - I just have more sense then you. The next General Election is when punishment will be served. Why should normal people now shoot THEMSELVES in the foot? Do you want the country to completely collapse?

Oh and btw I have not vilified ANY peaceful marchers. I support PEACEFUL marches - after that the Gardaí can crack skulls.

darkman2

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Bull****. Sorry, but no. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055912244[/url]

Firstly - it's ok for you to be gay. No one is judging you here. Secondly since when have I not been a liberal? I am a liberal - a sensible one.

Riddle101

Off topic but. If there is a riot tommorow, I hate to think of all the threads started on boards about it and whatnot. The mods will surely have a lot on their hands:D

Anyway i'm sure everything will be fine tommorow, I mean it's not like the Organge Order are matching through City Centre or something. I'd say it'll be pretty peaceful and anyone who tries to rebel will be dealt with swiftly by the gardaí

goose2005

i'll be there tomorrow night anyway. There were many groups represented at the last march, only one tried to run in through the gates. A bit of a scuffle and people talk as if the cabinet had been machine-gunned and the country in chaos.

Fintan O'Toole in today's Times

But the other threat to the right to peaceful protest is hysteria about the very notion of people taking to the streets. Here is the official statement issued by the Oireachtas last Tuesday evening after the now-infamous skirmish: “A small scale protest took place outside the gates of the Houses of the Oireachtas building this evening. A small number of protesters attempted to gain access to the confines of Leinster House, however, contrary to media reports, they did not gain entry to the parliament buildings or its grounds but were stopped by the gardaí. This incident in no way impinged on the business or workings of the Irish parliament or government.”

Yet this small incident that had no effect on anything was transmuted in the telling into a “storming of the Dáil”, a “riot” and a harbinger of anarchy and murder. Almost every discussion of it included some reference to Greece and the murders of three bank employees. By Sunday, the Sunday Independent was leading with “Gardaí train in secret for riots: Fears of Greek-style violence stirred in wake of Dáil attack by protesters”. You had to read the report quite carefully to realise that it referred to routine training.

I got caught up in this hysteria myself when Senator Terry Leyden accused me (under parliamentary privilege) of having incited a riot outside Leinster House. Senator Leyden has undertaken to withdraw that allegation in the Senate today, and I have no desire to go on about it. (The undertaking was given to Joe Duffy on Liveline, which surely makes it as solemn and sacred as a vow consecrated by the pope in the Middle Ages.) Apart from the irony that telling people they are “citizens of a free republic” can be construed as incitement to riot, what matters is the impulse to criminalise all forms of public demonstration.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

darkman2 wrote: »

Firstly - it's ok for you to be gay. No one is judging you here. Secondly since when have I not been a liberal? I am a liberal - a sensible one.

And if you were in any way liberal, you would at least be openminded about things. Also, if you were in any way liberal, why would my sexual orientation be an issue?

marcsignal

There's a saying I heard on Pat Kenny Tonight

"If you're going to kick a dog ? Don't kick a big angry one with teeth, kick a blind one with one leg"

It sums up for me the way FF have treated all of the ordinary Irish people, before and since all of this started.

As I said already, the bankers were let off scott free, when they should have had their assets seized, served time for professional negligence, and released years later, to spend the rest of their lives living in a small semi-d, banned from holding positions on the board of a bank, or private company ever again.

While some were raking in millions through tax breaks, dividents and backhanders, the health service was allowed to go to rack and ruin, and gangs of armed career criminals were running amok through the length and breath of the country, making a laugh of our outdated laws.

The legal profession got rich on tribunials, and endless appeals to the courts over our retarded, clumsy and unworkable asylum and immigration policy, and the 'claim culture' perpetuated during the Celtic Tiger, and I could go on.

Nobody would like to see rioting tomorrow, but I think it's important that the government see the people outside. To witness enough people turn out and say 'Enough is enough! We are fed up being laughed at, patronised, and screwed!'

Now is the time to push for real change all around. I honestly think Legal reform, and if desired, or necessary, the drawing up of a new constitution is needed, to weed out the cliques and cartels that have enslaved and exploited the ordinary citizen who just want's to get on with his/her life. Our current constitution represents a country that no longer exists. We should push to change it so that it reflects a modern Ireland.

If we carry on without making these changes, and making examples of those who have conned, swindled and shat all over us, were just going to get more of the same in the future from the next lot.

Much and all as I support the march tomorrow, I am cognisant of the possible damage 'rioting' will cause, and would not like to see anyone killed or injured in violent acts, that may prove detremental to our economic future.

If you're as angry with the Govt, as I will be at the next election, then that is the time to give them the cosmic screwing they deserve, like it's their first night in the Joy. The important thing is to keep the pressure on until then, and lobby your TD for changes like the ones I mentioned above. Real changes, and not empty platitudes.

once again, remember the old saying...

"If you're going to kick a dog ? Don't kick a big angry one with teeth, kick a blind one with one leg"

... come election time, it's the Govt that will be the blind dog with one leg, and not we, the people. Let's make that time 'Payback Time'

By all means protest tomorrow, it is your right if you want to, and show our collective anger disgust, but lets just be sensible about it too.

</rant>

Op, the rioters have nothing to lose. You clearly do.. Big difference.

100gSoma

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Considering your complete opposition to protests, may I ask when YOU intend to do? Other than drop your trousers and bend over?

Amen to that...

Seriously. Irish people are a bunch of subservient... sheep. Unfortunately the situation is probably gonna just go on and on like this until there is some sort of "disturbance". god forbid. Imagine. An actual protest with some pushing and shoving. Oh deary me. Years of the the repression by the brits and then the catholic church have left me completely impotent and flaccid in my opposition to FF and the bankers and everything else that is corrupt and immoral about this country. I guess I'll just lube up some more and take it though. What else can I do. When the new property tax comes in and your down another couple of 1000euro will people still just shake their heads and take it. Of course they will. In Greece they actually had placards in Greek proclaiming "this is Greece, not Ireland, we won't just take it". So the international community also know we take it. lol. Funny.
I think alot of us were probably earning more money 2 years ago then we are now due to pay freeze/unemployment and/or budget increases. I'm not going to get into the NAMA thing, but basically we all (and our yet to be born great grandchildren) are paying for this, and the banks thank us by refusing to lend out any money to stimulate the economy. In fact to say thanks they have inceased mortgage rates instead. Meanwhile the directors are still getting bonus payments on top of their 400 - 500k salaries (even though our finance minister promised this would not happen if we all bailed out the banks). zzzzzz... all I have to say is... bend over some more. I sometimes wonder would there be a "tipping point". Maybe if the government took an extra 30% out of your weekly expenditure. 40%? maybe 50%? nope. I think most people would just bemoan how bad things are and carry on.
I don't care about anyones IQ or ulterior motives for causing hassle in a protest. Just like I don't care if the public sector bring the country to its knees with strikes of cuts in their pay. ANYTHING that will bring about change in this country is GOOD.

Gigiwagga

Reading the posts in this thread is like eavesdropping on the conversation/argument a fifteen year old couple are having, realising the girl has become pregnant, whose fault is it,...oh **** what will we do, stupid *****idiots etc etc. fact is we are in trouble BIG TIME. Our children and probably our grandchildren will be indentured workers for much of their working lives.

I don't think it's fair to label the protesters as lazy scumbags etc. The truth is the real scumbags are on holiday in Spain etc and our Government are doing little or nothing about it. In the 2 years since the downturn/**** hit the fan our government have done zero to create a get back to work policy ZERO.
They repeat the mantra that first they need to save the banks etc, not much point having working banks when there isn't anybody left to use them. Save the producer and consumer first I say, the middleman comes last.
Every body is angry, I've been self employed since 1987 I had to sign on for the first time last month, I'm entitled to ****all. I've always been a net contributor to society. I attended the protest in Cork last weekend, about 150 people attended, I'm frustrated I'm extremely angry, and I'm afraid. I don't know what to do. Kicking some protesters head in would solve nothing I think, just a hunch.
Like the couple I started this post with who are perceiving the pending disaster, we need plenty of joined up thinking, without hidden agendas, party ideologues, or fence sitters. Remember whatever your background, current financial status, we are ALL ****ed.
Let's get together, yes even with the scumbag protesters at the dail, if you can't countenance this much, you are the one who has let yourself down.

biko

darkman2 wrote: »

For the record I want this government out and I am very angry like everyone else but this is not the time with Europe so unstable to be having this sort of attention drawn to us by a minority of people who just don't seem to get the damage this could do.

So when is a good time for you?
Don't put riots on the long finger.

After all the blood-thirsty bitching on AH the last few months I must say I'm surprised that when push comes to shove most posters chicken out*

*not directed at you specifically darkman.

"Kill the bankers"
Oh look they're protesting
"Kill the protesters"

Dyr

it f***ing hilarious that people really think the international markets will only realise that our economy has gone down the sh***ter if we hold protests about it.

General Zod

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

100gSoma

"Blood alone moves the wheels of history."

Well, figuratively speaking I think we can take that quote to mean that bending over an lubing up does NOT move the wheels of history. :cool:

Mr. Presentable

Bambi wrote: »

it f***ing hilarious that people really think the international markets will only realise that our economy has gone down the sh***ter if we hold protests about it.

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.

I am put in mind of the antics during the Peace March a few years ago. A certain element will use a legitimate gathering as cover for their own agenda.

Mr Benevolent

General Zod wrote: »

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

Three or four years ago.

100gSoma

nipplenuts wrote: »

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.
I am put in mind of the antics during the Peace March a few years ago. A certain element will use a legitimate gathering as cover for their own agenda.

I suppose the difference is, I am less principled such is my distaste with the current government and their total disconnection with the collective public feeling. I will support (within reason) whatever means necessary to get this government out. A peaceful protest is not worth anything. A burning car or a scuffle gets a lot more press attention AND government attention. sad but true.

Dyr

nipplenuts wrote: »

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.

tbh I don't think we can prevent the gardai and press from attending :pac:

MagicSean

100gSoma wrote: »

I suppose the difference is, I am less principled such is my distaste with the current government and their total disconnection with the collective public feeling. I will support (within reason) whatever means necessary to get this government out. A peaceful protest is not worth anything. A burning car or a scuffle gets a lot more press attention AND government attention. sad but true.

And whos car will you burn?

prinz

General Zod wrote: »

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

In addition, the windows of several businesses, including Foot Locker, Schuh, and Ulster Bank near O'Connell Bridge, were smashed and at least one shop (Footlocker shoe shop) was looted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots

Fuhrer

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Considering your complete opposition to protests, may I ask when YOU intend to do? Other than drop your trousers and bend over?

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

Heres the real truth, I want more cuts, I want your wages slashed to the bone, the dole halved and the majority of PS admin jobs privatized. I hope the guards can have some fun smashing a few heads open at this "Protest"

Lux23

I don't think this lot are genuinely upset by NAMA or the bank bailout and if they really wanted to get people out on the streets why have they taken so long to get organised. The economic tide is turning and numbers brokers and independent economists including the EU experts have said Ireland will emerge from the recession in Q3/Q4 and that the economy is likely to grow 2/3% next year. We are still looking at cuts and there will be more unemployment but these guys are way behind the times.

I am as angry as the next Irish citizen about how the banks have been bailed out while ordinary hard working people lose their jobs and homes but I don't see how storming the Dáil will make things any better. They have every right to protest but violence will win them no sympathy, there are tens of thousands of desperate people around Ireland who would love to run riot but they have more respect for their country and its taxpayers to create even more expense for them.

General Zod

Confab wrote: »

Three or four years ago.

There was no looting during the Love Ulster riot. I won't diagree that one of tha major reasons for the trouble was that a load of scumbags to the chance to wreck thge gaff, but there wasn't any actual looting done.

100gSoma

k_mac wrote: »

And whos car will you burn?

I've purchased a scrapper for 500euro to make my point. It's even NCT'd. I will then pay for the clean up the next day.

Kintarō Hattori

When is this protest supposed to start?

Fuhrer

General Zod wrote: »

There was no looting during the Love Ulster riot. I won't diagree that one of tha major reasons for the trouble was that a load of scumbags to the chance to wreck thge gaff, but there wasn't any actual looting done.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2006/0726/1153813780599_pf.html

MagicSean

100gSoma wrote: »

I've purchased a scrapper for 500euro to make my point. It's even NCT'd. I will then pay for the clean up the next day.

No you'll happily burn some poor minimum wage paid workers car. You'll smash up shops and attack random people for no reason. Who can forget the "orange-bastard" Charlie Bird attack at the Dublin riots. That's mob intelligence for you and thats why violent protest doesn't work.

Krusader

Fuhrer wrote: »

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

Heres the real truth, I want more cuts, I want your wages slashed to the bone, the dole halved and the majority of PS admin jobs privatized. I hope the guards can have some fun smashing a few heads open at this "Protest"

Brian Cowen is that you?

General Zod

Fuhrer wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2006/0726/1153813780599_pf.html

Thanks for a proper cite that wasn't wikipedia.