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Sky: "Protesters Storm Irish Parliament"

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    #92
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    duckysauce wrote: »
    c9nts are all in bed

    yeah with their highly paid erm 'special advisors';)

    bit silly now of the Guards or TV to try to seek news black-outs about any public event with twitter,boards,sat tv etc.

    You would think RTE would have learned something after their grovelling apology for showing the 'fun' paintings of Cowan taking a dump!

    RTE=FearFIRST WITH THE NEWS:p


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    #93
    Sandvich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭Sandvich


    Unemployment benefit for someone aged 18-24 is extortionately high.

    Get ****ing real. 100 euros a week is not enough for someone to live away from home on. There just aren't enough jobs out there, so what do you expect them to do?

    Putting more burden on mammy and daddy... that's about all it's achieving. Losing sympathy for a group over the reduction of their welfare to unmanagable levels is pretty low.

    200 euros a week is relatively high, but not extortionately high. By far most of it goes to food, rent(even with RA it's still 24 a week, absolute minimum) and bills. Having enough money to do more than merely exist offends you that much? If you can't find a job, what are you meant to do with your time? This is not a good country to live in without money. Travel can be expensive, and if you're job hunting, you're going to be doing a lot of that.

    Low welfare rates would have a tendancy to create a british-style yob couch potato more than anything.

    One of the reason other eurozones are doing well in the recession is because they maintain a high level of welfare as a natural cash injection into the economy.
    Now, please defend them again, with a straight face.

    You are far too confident in your own speaking ability. The only reason you can keep a straight face is that I do not believe you are capable of making any kind of emotional connection to people in a situation different to your own. This is when people start using words like "bleeding heart" since they can't understand why people smarter than them give a toss.


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    #94
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Based on what I saw on TV3, they were the only ones with cameras there and RTÉ weren't willing to buy the footage off them.

    Very few involved in the scuffle and about 8-10 gardaí were able to hold them back.

    Vincent Brown indicated tha the video footage they had overstated what happened.


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    #95
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    There were Socialist Worker flags, there were "Irish Traveller Movement" flags, there were Sinn Fein flags, there were Unite flags and a whole raft of other flags at the protest.

    Get your facts straight before you misrepresent the truth to suit your own position.


    http://vimeo.com/11668031

    i'm confused. he seems to have had his facts right, and you agreed, but he still misrepresented the truth?


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    #96
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Valmont wrote: »
    Unemployment benefit for someone aged 18-24 is extortionately high. Compare it to the UK and then tell me again that they 'need it to barely get by'. I currently work five days a week on the minimum wage and if I switched to the dole I would only earn around 60 euro less. Can you not see the incentives young people have to stay at home and not look for jobs?

    Have a look at this advocacy group: Youth Against Dole Cuts, who are trying to keep their hand-outs at celtic tiger levels and if you think that is bad enough, they have sponsored the live4less card which is the ugliest, most abominable embodiment of the welfare state:

    "We at Live4Less understand that your life has changed dramatically recently. Fun nights out are at an all time low, money worries are taking over and treating yourself to something new is a thing of the past. AND, we bet you have more free time than ever before."

    I don't know how you can actually support a group that is campaigning to keep ridiculously high unemployment benefits so that young people can have nights out on the town, join up at curves gym, eat at Captain Americas, and buy suits at Cuff's formal wear, all at the taxpayer's expense. Don't fool yourself, unemployment benefits long ceased their basic functions of helping people barely scrape by, they are now blatantly, openly, and unashamedly about maintaining unearned lifestyles and luxuries with money taken from those who actually get up in the morning to go to work.

    Now, please defend them again, with a straight face.

    what a complete pile of s*it you have being saying. how old are you 65 ?
    €100 a week for an age group like this or for anyone for that matter is nothing as prices are still way to high in this country for everything. it's people like you that have this country in the state it is with your sarcasm. if more people got up off their a*se and went out and delt with this criminal government and banking system we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. maybe you like being ripped off constantly through your tax the rest of us don't. i'm amazed at the fact that the whole country didn't join in and break down the walls of that place. but it is ireland the country of whingers that do nothing unless they are told to.


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    #97
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    The premise that 18-to25 year olds need less money assumes an awful lot about their parents being wealthy,generous and walking saints.

    Many parents are not fit for purpose,Alcoholics.Junkies,some who take most of the money to feed their habits.

    by all means attach rules to payments but do not assume that people have anywhere to turn or come from silver-spoon backgrounds.

    Fcukin joke is that six week courses are being offered by Farcefas to learn the complete ECDL!

    Sickening amount of attacking the innocent victoms of this recession around boards and the net,not anything like enough attacks on the greedy stupid fcukers that have ruined so many peoples dreams and deprived them of their hopes.

    Ireland is a class ridden society although that is another 'inconveniant truth'we like to pretend is not true.

    Some just cannot help but see wealth and happiness to be their birthright but not that of 'the peasants'.


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    #98
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    There were Socialist Worker flags, there were "Irish Traveller Movement" flags, there were Sinn Fein flags, there were Unite flags and a whole raft of other flags at the protest.

    Get your facts straight before you misrepresent the truth to suit your own position.
    Those at the front causing the trouble had éirígí and Socialist Worker flags, the others were in the main crowd, non-involved in the violence.


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    #99
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    LOL just saw the video. We even suck are trying to storm the Dail. :D no surprise really


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    #100
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Victor wrote: »
    Those at the front causing the trouble had éirígí and Socialist Worker flags, the others were in the main crowd, non-involved in the violence.

    well it's about time people did get violent instead of taking it up the a*se


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    #101
    D-Generate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭D-Generate


    It actually terrifies me that people are in support of these aggressive demonstrations. I am an unemployed graduate desperately wanting to work and I know jobs are scarce but I have enough knowledge about global markets to understand that political unrest and protests like this will do more to set back Ireland and Europe quicker than anything else.
    I have done nothing wrong, I wasn't a developer/banker/public servant or anyone of the thousands who took on loans knowing that once the two year teaser rate was done that they couldn't pay the loans back yet I will still take this hand we have been dealt on the chin. The quicker we bear the brunt and keep on moving the quicker we get out of it. Causing bedlam in the Dail, strikes and looking for guidance from any of the loonies in the far left will guarantee hardship for Ireland.

    I am in two minds about the media. One part of me thinks that everything is open to reporting but on the other hand I think that the media some times has an obligation to not incite unrest. With 24 Hour news reporting it often seems that the minor of incidents become reported on to such a great extent that it seems to become a movement. I am glad RTE took the time to report it in a measured sense so as to not sensationalize the story or make it seem as if its becoming a popular idea.


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    #102
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    the irish people should right now or in the next couple of weeks form a coup and oust the government and run the bankers off this island permenantly. their are a nice few people that are willing to do it but not enough as most of the irish are lazy people that shouldn't be even called irish.


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    #103
    D-Generate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭D-Generate


    zenno wrote: »
    the irish people should right now or in the next couple of weeks form a coup and oust the government and run the bankers off this island permenantly. their are a nice few people that are willing to do it but not enough as most of the irish are lazy people that shouldn't be even called irish.

    What about the hairdresser in Tallaght who took out a loan and remortgaged her house to keep up the payments? Or those that falsified their mortgage applications? Should we kick out those people too? The banks didn't force them to take on these financial obligations. There are very few people squeaky clean in all this.


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    #104
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    D-Generate wrote: »
    What about the hairdresser in Tallaght who took out a loan and remortgaged her house to keep up the payments? Or those that falsified their mortgage applications? Should we kick out those people too? The banks didn't force them to take on these financial obligations. There are very few people squeaky clean in all this.

    well thats a simple answer the banks should not have given her a loan in the first place. and don't be trying to make out that half the country is the cause of this mess it is not. people still think the government is in control and always was but in fact it is the bankers that have full control of the government as such the banks can do anything they please. something seriously needs to be done soon because if it is not this exact thing will happen again in the future. a coup should have been formed a long time ago to remove all sick twisted governmental and banking associates from this island. the time will come eventually i'm sure. it has to or we will be always stuck in this loop.

    and anyone that falsified their mortgage applications should be dealt with by the law.


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    #105
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    zenno wrote: »
    the irish people should right now or in the next couple of weeks form a coup and oust the government and run the bankers off this island permenantly. their are a nice few people that are willing to do it but not enough as most of the irish are lazy people that shouldn't be even called irish.

    Yes the Irish are so lazy that at the height of the boom Ireland had full employment.
    The measurement of that is 5% of a countries jobseekers are on the Live register,in fact ours dropped below that.So much for that cheap remark by You zenno.

    I agree with the poster who thinks protesting will harm us more,really the sad fact is that behaving like sheep is the only option open to us now.

    within the boundaries of sheepishness still the most vunerable should be protected,that patently is not the case,and never will when some see themselves more entitled to be happy than others.


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    #106
    Valmont
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Sandvich wrote: »
    You are far too confident in your own speaking ability. The only reason you can keep a straight face is that I do not believe you are capable of making any kind of emotional connection to people in a situation different to your own. This is when people start using words like "bleeding heart" since they can't understand why people smarter than them give a toss.
    Let me get this straight- your conclusion is that you're smarter than I am and I'm an emotionless husk, devoid of empathy for those less fortunate than myself?

    Bravo on that response good sir.

    Dublin is now cheaper to live in than London. An eighteen year old in Dublin gets 100 euro to live on per week and an eighteen year old in London gets the equivalent of 60 euro to live on per week. I'm presuming that there are many unemployed young people in London who get by with this amount of money, would you agree with that? And given the popularity of the Youth Against Dole Cuts group and the Live4less card, is it not apparent that Irish welfare payments are so high that they are openly being spent on things above and beyond the necessities? Knowing that, can you still defend extortionately high welfare payments? Maybe not with a straight face, but perhaps without the spittle flying everywhere.


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    #107
    D-Generate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭D-Generate


    zenno wrote: »
    well thats a simple answer the banks should not have given her a loan in the first place. and don't be trying to make out that half the country is the cause of this mess it is not. people still think the government is in control and always was but in fact it is the bankers that have full control of the government as such the banks can do anything they please. something seriously needs to be done soon because if it is not this exact thing will happen again in the future. a coup should have been formed a long time ago to remove all sick twisted governmental and banking associates from this island. the time will come eventually i'm sure. it has to or we will be always stuck in this loop.

    and anyone that falsified their mortgage applications should be dealt with by the law.

    No you are wrong, both the lender and the borrower have responsibilities. The banks should have been stricter on the lending and the borrowers shouldn't have been trying to take on loans that they couldn't afford. It was poor practices by both sides that got us in to this mess. To think that the bankers are just the devil is short-sighted and will end up in a large proportion of the country refusing to shoulder the blame.

    We are a free market society and as such the only thing that will see us survive is a capitalist mindset. To this end the bail out of the banks is a necessity so that they can begin to start trading again and provide liquidity to the Irish market. Sure some of this will go to bonuses but considerably more will go towards providing loans to people wanting to start businesses which will result in employment.

    If you have read any books whatsoever on economics then you will know that the financial policies of any left-wing organization up to and including the Labour party will not suit a country that relies heavily on foreign investment and imports. Its not like we have the commodities to make us an isolationist state.


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    #108
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Valmont the UK has the lowest unemployment rates in Europe.
    Two wrongs don't make a right.
    their is a problem in that the higher payments for some people on benifit is too close to the minimum wage.
    Lovely for people who want to hang around doing nothing{very few of them as was proven at the height of the boom.}

    For the vast majority unemployment is a living hell.


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    #109
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    quote: So much for that cheap remark by You zenno.

    you are missing my point. throughout the times the irish moaned and cried because they were screwed constantly but never once have they said enough is enough. surely i don't need to explain who destroyed this country again do i ? I am simply saying enough IS enough and the people have to fight for whats right and get out and do something about it so it doesn't happen again. is it that hard to contemplate.


    QUOTE: I agree with the poster who thinks protesting will harm us more,really the sad fact is that behaving like sheep is the only option open to us now.

    yes because we let it and such we will always be like sheep. enough of this entanglement of laziness to fix the problem. what happened to this country is traitorism on both government and bankers sides and they should be taken down. do you really want to use the excuse that we are like sheep now and can't do anything ? well if thats the case you have nowere left to go in irish society as life will always be like this for you and other irish people that think the same.


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    #110
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    QUOTE: The banks should have been stricter on the lending.

    precisely my point, the banks knew quite well hardly anyone would be able to pay them back so on their part (the bank that is) they should not have loaned.

    QUOTE: To think that the bankers are just the devil is short-sighted.

    are you serious.


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    #111
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    LESS PERSONAL ATTACKS PEOPLE.... KTHXBYE.


    DeV.


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    #112
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    Zenno You don't need to explain it to me at all,i can see it quite clearly.

    Capatalism seems to be the least worst type of economic culture.It is and always was cyclical in nature so there is a collective responsibility in the sense that it does not take a great historian to see that,proably a 12 page synopsis of it would have done.

    We are paying the cost of ignoring the lessons of history.

    We will pay an even higher one if we bring violence into the equation.


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    #113
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    ynotdu wrote: »
    Zenno You don't need to explain it to me at all,i can see it quite clearly.

    Capatalism seems to be the least worst type of economic culture.It is and always was cyclical in nature so there is a collective responsibility in the sense that it does not take a great historian to see that,proably a 12 page synopsis of it would have done.

    We are paying the cost of ignoring the lessons of history.

    We will pay an even higher one if we bring violence into the equation.

    well something has to be done.


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    #114
    ynotdu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    zenno wrote: »
    well something has to be done.

    Yes try ride the waves,hope that the planned attack on the Euro was foiled not just slowed down by the meeting of EU finance ministers on sunday.

    Somehow assuming there is no wave two that finishs the global economy off,I think THIS time the world has been changed forever.

    anyways far too late now to try to go into complexities,so i'll say G'nite!:)


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    #115
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    well something has to be done

    An attempted illegal removal of the government through a coup is not the answer.

    If people want to protest, protest for a change in government, protest in favour of elections and let the people who we think can get us out of the quagmire we are in, get voted by the people into power. Let them put their money where their mouth is.

    We are a grown up democratic society, yes we have the right to protest but numpties like the violent minority yesterday should be kept away from peaceful demonstrations.

    If this is supposed to be a demo every tuesday, just you wait and see how hard it will be for the protestors to get withing 100m of the Dail next week after that farcicle episode last night. The gardai were just doing their jobs, you think that THEY are happy with their own cuts? they probably morally support the protests, right up to the point where some hoody wearing scumbag tries to clock them with a flagpole.

    Our own economic stability will be viewed in the same light as the greeks if these types of violent outbreaks from anarchists and republicans (with completely different agendas than the main body protestors) are allowed to continue unchecked.


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    #116
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Morphéus wrote: »
    If this is supposed to be a demo every tuesday, just you wait and see how hard it will be for the protestors to get withing 100m of the Dail next week after that farcicle episode last night.
    Remember Lansdowne Road when a group of British scumbags came to town? The Gardai will have no problems showing the same force if these Irish scumbags show up again next week.

    The Gardai at large might not be married to the current government, but they do strongly support and uphold our democracy and will flatten any SWP idiot who tries to undermine that.


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    #117
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    zenno wrote: »
    well something has to be done.


    Aye, lets all get soem socialist flags and run at Gardai.


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    #118
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    People were innocently assaulted by the Gardai. There were at least a half dozen people with head injuries from batton charges from the Gardai who completely overreacted. Yeah protect the precious house of parliament but by assaulting innocent people partaking in a peaceful protest? Sickening....


    http://vimeo.com/11668031

    Could you watch this and tell me who was "innocently assaulted" ( :confused: ). Half a dozen people with head injuries?

    Seems to me like the peaceful protestors were across the street behind railings having a perfectly fine peaceful protest.


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    #119
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    prinz wrote: »
    Could you watch this and tell me who was "innocently assaulted" ( :confused: ). Half a dozen people with head injuries?
    The only people assaulted here were the Gardai. It's clear that a couple of protestors were using sticks as weapons and firing "missiles" into the Gardai.

    I can't see a single Garda baton in that video, maybe I missed it.


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    #120
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    prinz wrote: »
    http://vimeo.com/11668031

    Could you watch this and tell me who was "innocently assaulted" ( :confused: ). Half a dozen people with head injuries?

    Seems to me like the peaceful protestors were across the street behind railings having a perfectly fine peaceful protest.


    Well done to the Gardai on duty I say


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    i for 1 do not agree with a lot of the governments mistakes, but i also look at other circumstances,
    - theres a world wide recession, ireland as a small island nation was always going to be hit hard
    - people gave out about roads not up to scratch so bertie announced massive road building plans which cost a lot of money, it was only part funded by the eu
    - every contractor took advantage, over running costs cos there no consequences until the government changed the rules about 5 or 6 years back, can't remember exactly how long. point being everyone gained, contractors, there workers etc so not just the government are to blame
    - people have been skiving the dole and there benefits for years, other people turned a blind eye with the famous line "if they can get away with it, fair fcuks to them", so we are to blame, everybody knows somebody "working under the counter" jobs or they previously did and did nothing.
    - all this bertie scandal, it shocked me that plenty were upset when he left
    - if the government clamped down years ago on the construction bubble it might have staved off the bank crisis but every discipline from electrician to labourer were on the gravy train and were making crazy money, now that its burst and jobs are scarce they blame the government for everything but if the government had in my opinion curbed the boom to prevent the massive collapse these same people would have been shouting that the government are preventing them from a living and so on.

    more positive notes

    - we've had 14 years of effectively free third level education bar the fees, significantly increased in the last year, but still generously means tested, and although the €1500 price they are still well below the uk where students leave college with debts on average of 30,000 pounds
    - our roads and rail have significantly improved, there is no denying this
    - our welfare is still generous even for the €100 a week sector, majority of dole recipitants under 24 still live at home, and as mentioned about 1 person under 24 living with RA of €25 a week can still live a decent life, go shop in lidl, for €25 for 1 person you can get a bunch of stuff, allow another €10 for bills and your left with €40. live within your means, buy clothes from penneys and not sports or designer shops.
    - we still don't pay rates, the uk do
    - we up until 2 years ago didnt pay extra fees for additional homes, if the government had added this years ago there would have been uproar from builders, builders employees, 2nd home owners, etc etc


    i struggle to have sympathy with ex builders (as in employees) who now blame the government for all there troubles because they bought a house during the boom which there high wages helped push up the price of, many might say this was a minority but in my case it was the majority.

    my sympathies lie with the people turning 18-19-20 now cos they have little opportunity or college grads, these people who protested more than likely reaped the benefits and lived the high life. unions have no right to protest, they contributed massively to this mess, demanding increases during the boom helping push up prices in doing so. the majority of this country is to blame and not just the government.

    i myself graduated 2 years ago and had to leave cos i couldnt find a job, i'm not resentful towards the government, if not for them i would be educated, the world economy is a mess, when things pick up will we learn from past mistakes, unfortunately i dont think so.

    as for greece, they caused there own mess and have made themselves even worse with there violent protests, no investor will want to touch a country like that, do we want the same treatment.


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