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Why do Irish people not protest?

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    #32
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    duffflash wrote: »
    Then you will be the same fella on about the bogger invasion taking all our jobs!!

    I'm not a Dub myself, so no I don't call anyone boggers, and no one will be taking my job tbh so I don't care who 'invades' looking for work.

    Again, should I apologise that my location is Dublin? :confused: For some reason that was crucial enough for you to point out? What bearing does that have on your issue?


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    #33
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    I got burned on the Thierry Henry facebook petition and I'm not going back.

    Seriously - unless the army come out and back you, massing together with placards to shout slogans changes nothing. The govt got a 5-year mandate in 2007 to do as they please. That is how it is. The Irish public are total pragmatists in this respect.


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    #34
    duffflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭duffflash


    macgrub wrote: »
    OP, What would be your agenda in the protest?:confused:
    To deliver a valid protest against one form of system, you should be able to back it up with an alternate.
    Otherwise, the protest is just plain smashy smashy!

    You said it!

    and sure wouldn't any alternative be better that the pure capitalist system
    we are headed for.


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    #35
    macgrub
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭macgrub


    duffflash wrote: »
    You said it!

    and sure wouldn't any alternative be better that the pure capitalist system
    we are headed for.


    In Soviet Russia, Protest Drives You !:rolleyes:


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    #36
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    A lot of the radicalism came from the student movement years ago. Nowadays the youth are apathetic.


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    #37
    duffflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭duffflash


    macgrub wrote: »
    In Soviet Russia, Protest Drives You !:rolleyes:

    Da, Comrade!:rolleyes:


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    #38
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    People have their chocie at each election and time and time again nepotism and gombeenism wins the day. No amount of behaving like the Greek morons is going to change things.


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    #39
    duffflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭duffflash


    :(Thanks for this its been great and to a degree has answered my question as to why we don’t protest, all be it with more questions, but I’ll leave that to another topic!:rolleyes:


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    #40
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    duffflash wrote: »
    Why do Irish people not protest?
    Because ara sure it'll be grand...


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    #41
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    I get the distinct impression that the vast majority of people are too ignorant to protest about certain things that should or would warrant protestation.

    In order to be able to protest against something, one has to know and understand that which they are against.


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    #42
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Voltwad wrote: »
    A lot of the radicalism came from the student movement years ago. Nowadays the youth are apathetic.
    Very true, but it's not just the youth who are apathetic, it's society in general.

    What is it that fosters this apathy?


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    #43
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    duffflash wrote: »
    :(Thanks for this its been great and to a degree has answered my question as to why we don’t protest, all be it with more questions, but I’ll leave that to another topic!:rolleyes:

    What exactly would you protest against?
    What would be the form of the protest?
    What would be your alternative solution to what your protesting against?


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    #44
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    duffflash wrote: »
    Why are we so afraid of showing the government and the EU how we feel?

    I would gladly join a protest against some of the moves I think the government shafted the public with (Anglo, Nama etc.) but I know that any such march would be hijacked by the usual suspects.

    Last protests I took part in was back in 2002/03 against student fees. Each and every march, was seemingly taken over by college socialist societies, anti-war causes, SF and other (mostly left) groupings. Have seen this time and again.


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    #45
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    toiletduck wrote: »
    I would gladly join a protest against some of the moves I think the government shafted the public with (Anglo, Nama etc.) but I know that any such march would be hijacked by the usual suspects.

    Last protests I took part in was back in 2002/03 against student fees. Each and every march, was seemingly taken over by college socialist societies, anti-war causes, SF and other (mostly left) groupings. Have seen this time and again.

    That's the problem, confrontation junkies with no viable alternatives.


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    #46
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    toiletduck wrote: »
    Last protests I took part in was back in 2002/03 against student fees. Each and every march, was seemingly taken over by college socialist societies, anti-war causes, SF and other (mostly left) groupings. Have seen this time and again.

    +1. It also put a stop to me participating in student politics, and I see the same people will infiltrate each and any public demo no matter what the subject matter to promote themselves at all costs.


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    #47
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Thank god Ghandi never read this thread.


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    #48
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    mewso wrote: »
    Thank god Ghandi never read this thread.

    Why? :confused:


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    #49
    Tootle
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Tootle


    We're just apathetic. "Sure wont someone else with sort it out" or else "what would the neighbours think".


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    #50
    dsmythy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Well we could do what the Greeks did recently. Do economy crippling general strikes. Burn people in banks. Trash a few businesses and cost people their jobs. Make a mess of the streets. All to protest a left wing Greek government voted in a mere few months earlier.


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    #51
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    fontanalis wrote: »
    That's the problem, confrontation junkies with no viable alternatives.

    You seem to misunderstand the idea behind protesting.

    Protests are not about a rapid overhaul of government Russia-1917 style they are about trying to make small changes in ways that benefit everyone.

    If there was a viable alternative to outright exploitation that wasn't smothered in the blood of corruption don't you think it would already be accepted or at least well known but currently being defamed ;).

    I find it amazing that you all would give out about these 'usual suspects' i.e. the people that want to make things better, if we take a historical look we'll see that it's the 'usual suspects' who were the ones campaigning for the 8 hour work day, to stop children from working, to fight for equal rights for black people, for women, for fairer wages, etc... etc...

    I disagree with some posters view on these usual suspects as if we look historically at those protests that make a difference whether by failure or victory we do see positive social consequences from it all, though sometimes accompanied by bloodshed unfortunately...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_labor_protests_in_France

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_in_France

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day

    I really don't need to go on with this list do I?

    Also, you'll notice it's usually a minority of people who devolve a peaceful protest into a riot. I'm aware Greece recently went a bit overboard but the Greek people have been screwed by their government. You'll notice that in most countries such as France, USA, Iran, Israel, etc.. etc... are capable of peaceful protests so I'm always skeptical of people who bring out the tarring brush, especially in the politics room ;).

    I would argue that the apathy some of you feel towards protesting is surely misplaced & can only stem from a lack of knowledge of history.

    The only other logic I could use to rationalize some of the nonsense I've read in this thread is that this demonic apathy some of you have brought up has extended to more areas of society than we'd like to admit ;)


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    #52
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    You seem to misunderstand the idea behind protesting.

    Protests are not about a rapid overhaul of government Russia-1917 style they are about trying to make small changes in ways that benefit everyone.

    If there was a viable alternative to outright exploitation that wasn't smothered in the blood of corruption don't you think it would already be accepted or at least well known but currently being defamed ;).

    I find it amazing that you all would give out about these 'usual suspects' i.e. the people that want to make things better, if we take a historical look we'll see that it's the 'usual suspects' who were the ones campaigning for the 8 hour work day, to stop children from working, to fight for equal rights for black people, for women, for fairer wages, etc... etc...

    I disagree with some posters view on these usual suspects as if we look historically at those protests that make a difference whether by failure or victory we do see positive social consequences from it all, though sometimes accompanied by bloodshed unfortunately...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_labor_protests_in_France

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_in_France

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day

    I really don't need to go on with this list do I?

    Also, you'll notice it's usually a minority of people who devolve a peaceful protest into a riot. I'm aware Greece recently went a bit overboard but the Greek people have been screwed by their government. You'll notice that in most countries such as France, USA, Iran, Israel, etc.. etc... are capable of peaceful protests so I'm always skeptical of people who bring out the tarring brush, especially in the politics room ;).

    I would argue that the apathy some of you feel towards protesting is surely misplaced & can only stem from a lack of knowledge of history.

    The only other logic I could use to rationalize some of the nonsense I've read in this thread is that this demonic apathyof you have brought up has extended to more areas of society than we'd like to admit ;)

    My cynicism of an irish protest boils down to it being used by the people I labelled confrontation junkies and after having a protest the next general election comes and it's back to gombeenism.
    If you gathered a large crowd with very few morons, made a good articulate point and then comes the election and people actually delivered and made politicains realise that people will no longer accept corruption and to be involved in running the country you need to have something between the ears then I'll clap you on the back.


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    #53
    sparkling sea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭sparkling sea


    duffflash wrote: »
    Why are we so afraid of showing the government and the EU how we feel?

    The grey voters - were well able to come out and protest last year when there pensions were to be meddled with.

    What do you want to protest against the EU for?


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    #54
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    fontanalis wrote: »
    My cynicism of an irish protest boils down to it being used by the people I labelled confrontation junkies and after having a protest the next general election comes and it's back to gombeenism.
    If you gathered a large crowd with very few morons, made a good articulate point and then comes the election and people actually delivered and made politicains realise that people will no longer accept corruption and to be involved in running the country you need to have something between the ears then I'll clap you on the back.

    So we'll just use the idea of free speech to prevent people coming out to exercise their voice because of some pseudo-rationale that they will pervert a protest from it's goal into erm... what exactly? What is this invisible demon you're so scared of, could you let us know?

    I am starting to think it's not only protests that vaguery is clouding your judgement on, we hear you mentioning gombeenism & corruptionism without any specifics & no doubt you'll want to mention one or two things after reading this but you would still be missing the big picture.

    You're trying to look for justice in an inherently corrupt system & then apathetically complaining that trying to change things will result in nothing;
    fontanalis wrote: »
    and after having a protest the next general election comes and it's back to gombeenism.

    You again seem to forget your history, and even the present in a lot of respects. It's not like you're facing the barrel of a gun for voicing your anger at what's going on, it's not like you will have to go into hiding after publish these vague opinions under a pseudonym. You can act to change things peacefully & it's not like that everywhere in the world.

    If you see all this corruption why don't you write about it & publish it so that people like me can read about it & then do something. I'm not actually asking you to do this (hence the lack of a question mark ;)), I merely mention it to say that it's something you could do & it could have a good effect on society - as is the goal of the authors who do publish that type of work.

    It's fine for you to come away from here still criticizing everybody else for being gombeens, but I do not agree with you, as is obvious above.

    It's just not fair to criticize people who go out to try to change things with labels & no justifiable reasoning behind it...


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    #55
    Peanut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Peanut


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    So we'll just use the idea of free speech to prevent people coming out to exercise their voice because of some pseudo-rationale that they will pervert a protest from it's goal into erm... what exactly?

    It's pretty clear that the answer is, an alternative (usually socialist) agenda.

    I agree it's not a reason not to protest, but mis-representation of whatever your political message is, is certainly something to be concerned about.


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    #56
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    I just don't understand where the idea of them mis-representing anything comes from though...

    Honestly, where is the mis-representation?

    The way you've said it makes it seem like they are lying to everyone because they would take part in a particular protest because they believe in the cause, like they are deceiving everyone...

    It's like you want these socialists to let everyone know they are there for some reason...

    Why not get all those people in the demonstration who are not Irish to let everyone know they are amongst the people too???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RwPpbX6GO8


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    #57
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    What are we going to protest, attempts to reduce budget deficit?

    The protests we have had already have achieved nothing. I think I'll just use my vote and try to encourage others to use theirs sensibly too.


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    #58
    Peanut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Peanut


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    It's like you want these socialists to let everyone know they are there for some reason...

    I think the point is, they do a good enough job of that themselves!
    And distract from whatever the relevant issue is.

    If I happened to be non-Irish and wanted to participate in a demonstration, I would get behind the organisers of that demonstration on the basis of whatever they are protesting. I wouldn't try to push my own agenda at the same time, whether it's socialism or capitalism or any other -ism.


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    #59
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    duffflash wrote: »
    Why are we so afraid of showing the government and the EU how we feel?

    Why do we want to protest against the EU, In my opinion the level of corruption would be a lot more if we weren't monitored by an outside impartial body. Most of the politicians are related in some way. The political voting system is all wrong. Parish pump politics.

    Why don't we protest, why start now. We've never done it before it maybe something in our mentality in that we were suppressed for 800 years. We seem to appauld corruption and the "Cute Hoor".


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    #60
    dogbert27
    Registered Users Posts: 4,924 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    I'm too busy working every hour I can to pay back the personal debt I accumulated through buying my house and car to protest against the government for taking action to pay back their debts.
    I live in one of these "unfinished estates". The county council won't take over the maintenance of the estate because it's broke.
    Will I protest outside the county council until they do something or will I get a bag and a pair of gloves and go clean the roads and footpaths and cut the grass in my own area?
    The answer was the latter. The residents association formed and did it last weekend.
    Just like us, the Greek people should stop and take a look at themselves and question their actions for the last 10 years before protesting and question what they could have done previously to alter the course of events.
    We all know now with hindsight where we went wrong, both government and citizens, and we probably saw it at the time too but didn't want to stop the party. Maybe there isn't much protest because the Irish people are able to face the reality of the situation and get on with sorting it out now.


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    #61
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    I'm aware Greece recently went a bit overboard but the Greek people have been screwed by their government.


    Just how have the Greek people been screwed by their government? :confused: They've been living it up for years compared to the rest of us with shockingly low retirement ages, people getting paid 14 months wages per year, notoriously low tax returns, a massive proportion of the economy operated on an under the counter/black market style, cooking their national books.. etc etc etc. Their government played along and the Greek people were delighted.

    Gravy train stops..O it's the big bad government screwing us over, we didn't have a clue :rolleyes: Get out of it.


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