Iceland has banned strip clubs.

Feeona wrote: »

What changed my mind for me however was reading a thread on going to the gym (can't remember where I read it). Female posters were saying how uncomfortable they felt if they looked sweaty and unpresentable, whereas the males posters didn't mind how they themselves looked. What stood out for me was the male poster who said 'But if you look sweaty and red, it reminds men of how you look when you have sex'. It got lots of thanks from male posters (not that there's anything wrong with that, men are human too : P)

And it got me thinking: does the act of sex make women feel vulnerable?

To me personally, it just seems like the women on that thread feel uncomfortable about not looking their best (in their opinions) in public - I'm not sure whether it goes as deep as the act of sex causing vulnerability. I think so anyway...

I generally don't like saying such-and-such is a "fact" or a "reality" but in this case, I think it's fair to say the female form is pleasing to the eye: fact. :pac:
Possibly more pleasing than the male form.
Personally speaking, I'm a heterosexual woman and I still think a naked woman in great shape looks better than a naked man in great shape - not sexually, as women don't turn me on, but purely coming from an aesthetic perspective.
The female form being pleasing to the eye is not a bad, nasty, sexist thing - it's just a fact of life, it's natural, as is enjoyment of looking at it. Therefore, the censuring of this, ostensibly a natural phenomenon, sets a dangerous precedent IMO. Objectification of women or not, if there were a global banning of any sexual images of women whatsoever, it still wouldn't obliterate the enjoyment men/women have of the female form.
I also think e.g. burlesque ("artier" perhaps but still stripping) can look amazing. Leaving out the sex/sexiness factor: with the level of skill required, I'd deem it something of an art form. Ditto pole-dancing - incredibly acrobatic moves requiring extremely high levels of fitness, strength and suppleness. I totally understand a woman wanting to do either for a living - wouldn't mind it meself!
I also think it makes excellent business sense to make money out of your body if you've got a good one. You won't have it forever...

I am bearing in mind that I'm an educated woman living in Western Europe, and therefore a lot less likely to be a victim of sex trafficking, and I've no doubt there are some ultra creepy customers the women are less than happy about having to do private dances for... but at the same time, as already mentioned, these links between stripping and sex slavery seem pretty tenuous (IMO).

I do find page 3 a bit crass though - don't know why... Maybe it's because it's so random and seemingly out of context - the way it's just plonked at the start of a newspaper. And the way someone actually thought "I know - tits with your cornflakes!"

I felt compelled to post on this topic. It's a conversation I've had many times over the years and rarely have I come across anyone that agrees with my views. As open minded as I am, this is a topic that I haven't yet heard an argument that would sway my opinion.

Stripping/ sexual objectification however you want to refer to it is very damaging. Traditionally it's been a problem that mainly effects women, but it is also becoming a predominant male issue.

It degrades women and devalues their worth in society to that as a mere vessel for sexual gratification with complete disregard for their mental, intellectual or physical ability. It has huge repercussions on women in society in general. It places huge pressure on us to look a certain way. No matter how talented a woman may be intellectually or physically, she still feels the pressure to look a certain way, after all you can't truly be successful in life unless you can attract a man. Not to mention the multiple other repercussions it has eg, eating disorders, trafficking, rape etc.

I don't doubt that as long as there is a market for it then the sex industry will exist in all it's many forms but just because it's widespread doesn't mean it's ok. Similarly just because some women choose of their own free will to contribute doesn't make it ok.

Another issue, which is a whole other argument is the amount of women who actually choose these professions on the more serious end of the scale which is prostitution, brothels, strip clubs I doubt that any significant number choose this as a trade, and most are trafficked or feel coerced due to their own financial situations.

Just my 2 cents, I think it's all too easy to brush it off with 'it's all consensual and just a bit of craic so no harm done. The repercussions in society are numerous and far reaching.

[QUOTE=Dudess;65798938
How though? For instance, I don't have a problem with stripping and I also most certainly don't think women are mere vessels for sexual gratification. If stripping causes people to think that way about women in general, then I'd say they're few and far between. And very stupid.
And also, I know you're aware of this, but still: many women WANT to strip.
:[/QUOTE]
How? The answer was in my post, by totally disregarding their other abilities. Stripping DOES cause people to think this way about women, sexual objectification in the media also does. Extensive studies in this field have shown this time and again.

You yourself think it's ok to view a woman this way if you think it's ok for he to strip. They aren't doing it for intellectual stimulation, it's for mere sexual gratification. Why should it be ok in one instance and not in another? And where do you draw a line? Is stripping ok but prostitution not?

Yes I am aware that SOME women want to strip, it's the minority of people in the trade that enjoy it. Some women do it because despite not enjoying it, the remuneration is good, some are trafficked to Western countries to do it, some feel they have no other means to put food on the table.


[QUOTE=Dudess;65798938
Stripping is only one of the many, many things that puts that message out - and it is one of the lesser culprits too (in my opinion).
[/QUOTE]

I agree that it one of many but certainly not that it is one of the lesser culprits. Sexual objectification in the media is a major contributor also but it's all interlinked, the media is generally just a toned down, more socially acceptable version of what happens in a strip club.


[QUOTE=Dudess;65798938
Stripping leads to eating disorders, trafficking (perhaps some strippers from overseas are trafficked to e.g. here, granted - stripping doesn't cause it though), rape?

[/QUOTE]

Of course it causes trafficking, if there was no sex industry then there would be no demand to traffic these women. Simple fact is, in western society the majority of women do not want to strip, so vulnerable women are coerced under false promises and threats to come here and forced to satisfy that demand.

Now I seriously doubt that any person without extremely questionable morals is "ok" with an industry that encourages these sort of activities.

Rapists generally view women as mere objects, a view that is reinforced by stripping and sexual objectification. It's a view that makes society unsafe for women and can lead to increase instances of rape.


[QUOTE=Dudess;65798938

Why not?
[/QUOTE]

For all the reasons I've mentioned above, and many more.


[QUOTE=Dudess;65798938


From a woman taking her clothes off and dancing? [/QUOTE]

Yes, I'd take some time to do a bit of research on google scholar and in news archives if you'd like to find out more about the criminal activity and damage to society that occurs because of the existence of this industry.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you Polly. I mean, I take what you're saying about sexual exploitation (obviously an horrific reality) but I don't think that's going to disappear with the outright banning of strip-clubs. The ones where there is malpractice should be shut down of course, but those which are regulated and the women are treated correctly (and well paid) - it seems wrong to deny the punters... and the workers.
I dunno... what's wrong with a woman capitalising on her body of her own free will? This notion that she shouldn't because it's bowing down to misogyny seems... kinda misogynistic (well a variant of it) also tbh - a bit bordering on the "dirtypillows" kinda stuff Carrie's mom goes on about in the Stephen King novel. A woman's body is a number of things - one of those is sexual. And why not?

I just don't think an outright banning would bode well - like, there is exploitation of Coca Cola workers... so should all soft drinks be banned? Ditto clothing, footwear, coffee, chocolate.
And using the term "sex industry" as a panacea - it isn't this nasty, evil empire... it's multi-faceted, and some bits are fine, some aren't. Like any industry.

I also think men should be given a lot more credit than "it makes men think it's normal for women to be sexual objects" - to be fair.

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