Dublin Bus Network Review

dynamick · 27-04-2010 09:03AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is it just me or is there nothing in the papers today about this. I can't see anything up on independant.ie anyway, strange!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0427/1224269158571.html

Bus network undergoes major changes

TIM O'BRIEN

DUBLIN BUS yesterday announced its reorganised bus routes and timetables.

Changes to routes and services will be introduced in five phases from July.

They will take place at two to three-month intervals and will focus on areas as opposed to single routes. The first areas to be affected will be Stillorgan, Blanchardstown and Lucan.

From the outset, however, the effects will be felt over the entire network.

and

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/union-warns-dublin-bus-against-forced-layoffs-2149415.html

But the claims were dismissed by the opposition last night, who described them as a "con job".

Fine Gael's transport spokesman Fergus O'Dowd said customers would not benefit. "Dublin Bus's plans just don't stack up for passengers," he said.

"The company is axing routes, laying off staff and cutting back on its bus fleet. How can that be of benefit to anyone?"

Cookie_Monster · 27-04-2010 09:09AM

so there is something about... that Indo one is from Friday April 23 2010 btw.

murphaph · 27-04-2010 09:34AM

Fine Gael's Fergus whatever should really STFU.

Obviously running the plans down before he's even heard them all, just to score a couple of cheap political points. The main problem with efficient bus operation in Dublin lies not with DB (I do not like the way CIE has handled public transport one iota, but this is only partly their fault), but with the traffic the buses must compete with.

O'Dowd would be better spending his time trying to get bus priority measures introduced rather than denegrating DB for at least attempting to drag the network into the 21st century. His negative attitude (when he probably doesn't even understand the thing) is more annoying than how badly CIE have run it up to now in fact!

I'd love O'Dowd to present his detailed plans for the ENTIRE network, fully costed of course, to see what he would propose.

murphaph · 27-04-2010 09:37AM

JHMEG wrote: »

Should be called Lidl, Intel, or Leixlip Amenities Centre alright. I doubt whoever drew the map was familiar with that part of the network.

Is the Hitching Post actually gone?

The stops indicated on the maps are fare stages, not ordinary stops, so they can't just put Intel down on the map "cos it's kind of close and more people know it". They have to use the exact bus stop where the fare stage changes.

I sincerely hope however, that the fare stage system is abolished under the NTA and a zonal system introduced, but that would require a larger subvention from the taxpayer and we all know where public transport comes in the priority list.

JHMEG · 27-04-2010 09:47AM

murphaph wrote: »

Is the Hitching Post actually gone?

It's called Lidl now! Has been for 6 or 7 years.

murphaph · 27-04-2010 09:53AM

Then yeah, stop should be renamed Lidl, Maynooth Road or whatever but I would really prefer them to move away from naming stops after businesses altogether as (as can be seen here) businesses go bust and a stop ends up with a name that makes no sense.

They name all stops in Berlin after street intersections or public transport hubs (railway stations etc.) or actual towns outlying Berlin. Nothing is named after a business that I know of. It is robust and stands the test of time. They must also get into the habit of having bus stops in matching named PAIRS. The Cityswift bus stops were a joke: the bus stops on opposite sides of the road often had different names!!

dynamick · 27-04-2010 10:06AM

Fergus O'Dowd must have replaced Olivia Mitchell as FG transport genius. Mitchell told us that the interconnector was an unnecessary Rolls Royce luxury project for Dublin that duplicated the route of the Luas from Heuston to Connolly.

KC61 · 27-04-2010 10:12AM

murphaph wrote: »

I sincerely hope however, that the fare stage system is abolished under the NTA and a zonal system introduced, but that would require a larger subvention from the taxpayer and we all know where public transport comes in the priority list.

Unfortunately that's not my understanding...the staged fare system will remain, but the smartcard will apply the Transfer 90 fare to multi-bus journeys.

Stevek101 · 27-04-2010 10:34AM

Phase 2: Ballymun, Finglas and Clontarf.

Phase 3: Tallaght, Templeogue, and Malahide

Phase 4: Glasnevin, Drimnagh, Ranelagh, and Swords

Phase 5: Merrion Road and Howth Road.

noelfirl · 27-04-2010 10:35AM

KC61 wrote: »

Unfortunately that's not my understanding...the staged fare system will remain, but the smartcard will apply the Transfer 90 fare to multi-bus journeys.

So does that mean that a fresh €1.80 deduction will be applied if you board a third or fourth bus 90 minutes after the first time the card is presented? What about say, a bus, then a short Luas journey then another bus within 90 minutes of the first one, e.g. new 84 to Cherrywood, Luas to the Green and then a 92 to Heuston, i.e. any integration hope been given on that front?

KC61 · 27-04-2010 10:41AM

noelfirl wrote: »

So does that mean that a fresh €1.80 deduction will be applied if you board a third or fourth bus 90 minutes after the first time the card is presented? What about say, a bus, then a short Luas journey then another bus within 90 minutes of the first one, e.g. new 84 to Cherrywood, Luas to the Green and then a 92 to Heuston, i.e. any integration hope been given on that front?

Well within 90 minutes I understand that the transfer fare will be EUR 1.80 or the smartcard equivalent which might be discounted.

After 90 minutes it would be a fresh journey.

I believe that there will be multi-modal fares that will offer a discount on the cash alternatives.

Cookie_Monster · 27-04-2010 10:53AM

Stevek101 wrote: »

Phase 2: Ballymun, Finglas and Clontarf.

Phase 3: Tallaght, Templeogue, and Malahide

Phase 4: Glasnevin, Drimnagh, Ranelagh, and Swords

Phase 5: Merrion Road and Howth Road.

there a reliable source on that? No mention of the Rock route QBC, I would imagine there'll be changes there too.

markpb · 27-04-2010 10:56AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there a reliable source on that? No mention of the Rock route QBC, I would imagine there'll be changes there too.

It's in the article linked to earlier on.

KC61 · 27-04-2010 11:00AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there a reliable source on that? No mention of the Rock route QBC, I would imagine there'll be changes there too.

I think that Merrion Road = Rock Road.

Stevek101 · 27-04-2010 11:02AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there a reliable source on that? No mention of the Rock route QBC, I would imagine there'll be changes there too.

Taken from the Irish Times article. This will be going on well into next year by the looks of it.

Cookie_Monster · 27-04-2010 11:04AM

KC61 wrote: »

I think that Merrion Road = Rock Road.

Brain Fail

schemingbohemia · 27-04-2010 12:02PM

Does anyone else think it odd that angel01 who was so vociferous before the changes were announced has been oddly silent since they were actually released? Apart from, strangely, thanking those who have queried the benefits of the proposals?

AlekSmart · 27-04-2010 12:18PM

The stops indicated on the maps are fare stages, not ordinary stops, so they can't just put Intel down on the map "cos it's kind of close and more people know it". They have to use the exact bus stop where the fare stage changes.

I sincerely hope however, that the fare stage system is abolished under the NTA and a zonal system introduced, but that would require a larger subvention from the taxpayer and we all know where public transport comes in the priority list.

I believe that whilst the Network Direct plan is a valuable and long awaited move into the 20th Century,we still have little or no official recognition that we also need to totally re-assess the supporting infrastructure.

They name all stops in Berlin after street intersections or public transport hubs (railway stations etc.) or actual towns outlying Berlin. Nothing is named after a business that I know of. It is robust and stands the test of time. They must also get into the habit of having bus stops in matching named PAIRS.

As murphaph posts,there is nothing to prevent us from adopting the Berlin model which in true Germanic style depends on hard factuality for its effectiveness.

One good start would be for Dublin Bus to Immediately set about re-identifying it`s route Stages.
I say RE, because as yet nobody has adequately explained to me why the Stage markings were deliberately removed in the first place,a decision which guaranteed a level of added confusion and contention ...Why ? Why ? Why ?.

The Network Direct principles are generally positive but for God`s sake will nobody take a look at the non-bus aspects too ??? :eek:

Torpedo · 27-04-2010 12:28PM

"Phase two will involve Ballymun, Finglas and Clontarf."

Any speculation on what what might happen here I know 40's have been talked about but what about 130 going cross city, changes to 11, 104?

angel01 · 27-04-2010 12:36PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Does anyone else think it odd that angel01 who was so vociferous before the changes were announced has been oddly silent since they were actually released? Apart from, strangely, thanking those who have queried the benefits of the proposals?

I have commented actually, why feel the need to single me out?

Surely it is a message board and I can use it or comment or not comment if I like to. The thanks option is there to be used, if you have an issue with that feature, you should contact the moderators/admin of boards

Seeing as you are so interested, I actually prefer to use other sections of boards.ie forums more frequently than this one.

schemingbohemia · 27-04-2010 12:51PM

angel01 wrote: »

I have commented actually, why feel the need to single me out? Surely it is a message board and I can use it or comment or not comment if I like to. The thanks option is there to be used, if you have an issue with that feature, you should contact the moderators/admin of boards

Seeing as you are so interested, I actually prefer to use other sections of boards.ie forums more frequently than this one.

why single you out? because before any detail came out you were preparing to man the barricades with objections to what would come out. since the detail has been released your 2 comments have not related to any of the detail at all, they've just been general comments which makes me think you haven't bothered reading the detail or that the changes don't affect you or perhaps more likely is that something really interesting has been happening in fair city

Cool Mo D · 27-04-2010 12:54PM

Torpedo wrote: »

"Phase two will involve Ballymun, Finglas and Clontarf."

Any speculation on what what might happen here I know 40's have been talked about but what about 130 going cross city, changes to 11, 104?

Hopefully the 11 will be timetabled so that the 11, 11A and 11B don't all meet up along the way anyway.

I imagine the 4/4a won't be touched, neither will the 140, the 130 will prob be extended southward to at least Leeson Street, don't know after that.

angel01 · 27-04-2010 01:26PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

why single you out? because before any detail came out you were preparing to man the barricades with objections to what would come out. since the detail has been released your 2 comments have not related to any of the detail at all, they've just been general comments which makes me think you haven't bothered reading the detail or that the changes don't affect you or perhaps more likely is that something really interesting has been happening in fair city

Awww thats nice you searched where I post.. thanks

Feel free to drop in...;)

murphaph · 27-04-2010 01:57PM

angel01 wrote: »

I have commented actually, why feel the need to single me out? Surely it is a message board and I can use it or comment or not comment if I like to. The thanks option is there to be used, if you have an issue with that feature, you should contact the moderators/admin of boards

Seeing as you are so interested, I actually prefer to use other sections of boards.ie forums more frequently than this one.

How do feel about the network review, will it help you or have no effect, or do you not know yet as the 40D wasn't mentioned?

I'm genuinely interested in your case as you're one of the people the review should help (2 buses and the Luas each way).

angel01 · 27-04-2010 02:11PM

murphaph wrote: »

How do feel about the network review, will it help you or have no effect, or do you not know yet as the 40D wasn't mentioned?

I'm genuinely interested in your case as you're one of the people the review should help (2 buses and the Luas each way).

I never said I got the 40D so I am not sure where you are coming with on that one.

So far, some of the choices that have been announced do make sense, others don't go far enough. If they want to stop people using the luas, they need to change the bus options to Sandyford.

murphaph · 27-04-2010 02:17PM

angel01 wrote: »

I never said I got the 40D so I am not sure where you are coming with on that one.

So far, some of the choices that have been announced do make sense, others don't go far enough. If they want to stop people using the luas, they need to change the bus options to Sandyford.

That's great Angel, but could you be more specific. I assumed 40D, must have picked it up from someone else. What bus routes do you use and where do you change buses/Luas?

devnull · 27-04-2010 02:22PM

The 47 is a fail for me, because it starts at Merrion Square, if it started north of the liffey it would be a potential way of people getting to Sandyford from the North Side or the city centre without having to get another bus or walk to Stephens Green to get a Luas.

So for most people who use two buses and a luas or one bus and the luas so far, it's not going to make things any easier, unless you're on the 47 route.

Cookie_Monster · 27-04-2010 02:33PM

devnull wrote: »

The 47 is a fail for me, because it starts at Merrion Square, if it started north of the liffey it would be a potential way of people getting to Sandyford from the North Side or the city centre without having to get another bus or walk to Stephens Green to get a Luas.

So for most people who use two buses and a luas or one bus and the luas so far, it's not going to make things any easier, unless you're on the 47 route.

I agree in part. I think it should have been runs as far as Pearse, Tara or Connolly stations to allow some integration of services rather than just someone north of the liffey.

schemingbohemia · 27-04-2010 02:34PM

devnull wrote: »

The 47 is a fail for me, because it starts at Merrion Square, if it started north of the liffey it would be a potential way of people getting to Sandyford from the North Side or the city centre without having to get another bus or walk to Stephens Green to get a Luas.

So for most people who use two buses and a luas or one bus and the luas so far, it's not going to make things any easier, unless you're on the 47 route.

that does seem to go against the rationale for many of the changes and the deloitte report.

what's your route and what effect will the changes have, if any?

markpb · 27-04-2010 02:47PM

angel01 wrote: »

If they want to stop people using the luas, they need to change the bus options to Sandyford.

Why would anyone assume they want less people to use the Luas? That's a fight that DB are never going to win (if only because of peoples natural preference for trains over buses).

devnull wrote: »

The 47 is a fail for me, because it starts at Merrion Square, if it started north of the liffey it would be a potential way of people getting to Sandyford from the North Side or the city centre without having to get another bus or walk to Stephens Green to get a Luas.

I'm one of those people who commutes from the northside to Sandyford and I don't have a problem with this plan. I do occasionally use the bus instead of the Luas (because it brings me right across the city centre) but I would never, ever advocate DB allocating more buses to compete with the Luas.

What I would like to see are more cross-city routes which do not go through the city centre. I've mentioned it before here but a bus route that uses the Eastlink or Samuel Beckett would save a lot of time. Similarly, I think a route that crosses the city west of the city centre would also be useful. I also think that they should use this opportunity to beef up the Sandyford, Dart and Luas feeder services. The 17a is being made more frequent which is great for Howth Junction - they need to repeat this all over the city. Shorter routes that serve local areas are vital. Almost everyone I work with lives near Sandyford but few, if any, use buses to get there so the traffic jams continue.

Dublin Bus Network Review

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