Child abuse: do Protestant clergy not do it?

ScumLord · 27-03-2010 10:31PM

I don't think you could say celibacy causes paedophilia but the Catholic priesthood as it was attracted weirdos. Back then it was often the runt of the litter that couldn't be married off that was sent to the priesthood and they probably had no choice in the matter. This could have meant you'd have a build up of spiteful characters. We where brought up to believe priest joined the priesthood out of a calling but it was much more basic and crude than that.

I think that much has changed and today's priest do want to to the job and accept the vows they have to take but there's still a generation of those old schoolers in control of the church corrupting all those below them that where forced and bullied into believing something and that where thought to force and bully others into the same beliefs.

ejmaztec · 27-03-2010 10:36PM

There are obviously paedophiles in all walks of life, and the only reason for the RCC getting a lot of attention is that it was intentionally covered up as much as possible, and that offenders were only prosecuted decades after the event. Had the Church done the right thing, and had these feckers kicked out of the Church and prosecuted in the first place, it wouldn't have lost the respect of a large percentage of the population.

The Church has only got itself to blame, and the megalomaniacs running it.

Pittens · 27-03-2010 10:37PM

Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy

Masturbation, as you so coyly alluded to, is a sin in the eyes of the Church. Priests are not supposed to do it.

I am really dealing with the general idea that chastity, or celibacy cause paedophillia, an absurd claim. It would mean, as others have pointed out, that people without boyfriends or girlfriends would find themselves - and maybe for the first time in their lives - attracted to children. Makes no sense. I dont think the celibacy causes rape either.

And most pedophiles are married.

Anyway that is slightly off topic. I agree that the Catholic Church attracted weirdos. I think that teaching has attracted weird people in Ireland too - not sure why.

migozarad · 27-03-2010 10:37PM

Conversely,Protestants prefer to rape OAPs

fryup · 27-03-2010 10:42PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

I'm wondering why similar stories are not emerging about the Protestant clergy.

brianthebard wrote: »

They have wives.

and husbands > don't forget about the women priests

but more to the point they're allowed to lead normal lives i.e. get married and have kids

Neyite · 27-03-2010 10:51PM

New Testament (Mk 1:29-31; Mt 8:14-15; Lk 4:38-39; 1 Tim 3:2, 12; Tit 1:6) the Apostle Peter (the first pope) had been married, and that bishops, presbyters and deacons of the Primitive Church were often family men.
(Peter) was married and had children. Traditionally, it is believed that Peter's wife suffered martyrdom. A reference in the Bible to Peter's marriage is Mark 1:29-31.
St. Siricius, the 38th pope born c.334, is said to have left his wife in order to become a pope

There were other popes who had wives or families but there were none who married after they became pope, as marriage was prohibited once he became pope.
Mandatory celibacy was enforced because there was so much political and economic power attached to the papacy especially during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. The Church has adopted celibacy as a matter of discipline, not as a matter of doctrine.”
I suspect it was also to protect the Vatican wealth. They would be forced to support a priest, wife, educate the children, and I imagine that inheritance rights would be a right can of worms the Holy See did not want to open. to admit wrongdoing in how they covered for pervert priests means that their legal defence is blown wide open for lawsuits.
The priesthood is a natural cover for a child molester: historically, they had absolute power over a community, and could do or say anything they wanted without being accountable to gardai. It was usually an isolated parish, with devout parisioners who believed unquestioningly the words of an educated man of the cloth. Rich pickings for a child abuser. And for a bonus, if he gets caught doing evil, he can go to confession and its all better again. And if he f*cks up big time, they just move him on to the next batch of victims.

Tigger · 27-03-2010 11:06PM

me_right_one wrote: »

Wrong Wrong WRONG!!!

Its nothing to do with supressing your sexual urges, couldn't you just hire a prostitute in some town where you're not known? Anyway, the highest proportion of paedophiles are actually married, and abuse their own children. Its just that paedofiles target positions of trust where they think they can get cover for their actions, hence why some of them targeted the church. There are paedofile teachers, doctors, swimming coaches etc. of all religions out there!

Its just that Catholicism is the biggest religon in the world, hence the (seemingly) higher proportion.

This

cornbb · 27-03-2010 11:32PM

Enforced celibacy + being put in a position of extraordinary power and trust = culture of rampant paedophaelia. There are paedophiles in other walks of life too but these two facts of life about being a priest means that many of these men turned to paedophaelia whereas they wouldn't have otherwise. The protestant churches in Ireland don't enforce celibacy and they were never a dominant force in modern Irish life, therefore they don't suffer this problem.

Mr. Presentable · 27-03-2010 11:37PM

Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy

A priest was on tv last night and said, paedophiles actively joined the catholic priesthood for the power, easy access to children and the respect. TBH, it seems a better call than that the lifestyle of a priest is in some way responsible. In other words, a paedo is a paedo.

laugh · 27-03-2010 11:45PM

I think alot of them are gay and confused and they hid in the church (because of the church) and mostly abused boys.

Stinicker · 27-03-2010 11:55PM

laugh wrote: »

I think alot of them are gay and confused and they hid in the church (because of the church) and mostly abused boys.

I think that is a stupid statement, being gay does not make them paedophiles! :rolleyes: There are plently gay priests and ministers who never touched a child, plus alot of the children abused were also girls. Paedos are sick either way regardless of their orientation.

Pittens · 28-03-2010 12:11AM

Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy

As to why the Catholic church asked for celibacy - partly to stop the Church as a Aristocracy, which tended to be the case with Anglicans.

Lone Stone · 28-03-2010 02:52AM

brianthebard wrote: »

They have wives.

A pedo is a pedo regardless if they have a wife or not.

laugh · 28-03-2010 10:52PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I think that is a stupid statement, being gay does not make them paedophiles! :rolleyes: There are plently gay priests and ministers who never touched a child, plus alot of the children abused were also girls. Paedos are sick either way regardless of their orientation.

No they were mainly boys, touching another male human sexually or putting your dick in them is gay.

Fratton Fred · 28-03-2010 11:40PM

Pittens wrote: »

As to why the Catholic church asked for celibacy - partly to stop the Church as a Aristocracy, which tended to be the case with Anglicans.

No its not, its because they want to keep all their money to themselves and don't want the hassle of widows and children eating into the balance books.

indough · 29-03-2010 12:07AM

no its because the giant spider told them to

moonpurple · 29-03-2010 09:47AM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Many Catholic priest went to seminary aged 14. (Gabriel Byrne was one - but he left)

Secondly, the paedophiles who are priests were moved from parish to parish giving them more children to abuse. They're still a small proportion of all priests, but they seem to have had unlimited access to children even after they were found out.

Thirdly, the Catholic attitude to sex meant that the sexual act was regarded as perverted in any case unless you were specifically trying to concieve a child. There are many married people with blighted sex lives because of this...how much more perverted could it become in those training for the priesthood?

many people went to seminaries and fled
john hume
mep joe higgins
gabriel byrne who backed mannix flynn becoming a councillor,

megadodge · 29-03-2010 10:39AM

Pittens wrote: »

I am really dealing with the general idea that chastity, or celibacy cause paedophillia, an absurd claim.

Why "absurd" ?

Can you explain why hetrosexual men who have normal hetrosexual lives, when incarcerated in prison for long sentences end up having homosexual affairs there?

I don't want to hear any rubbish about suppressed homosexuality, I think we both know it has everything to do with sexual release.

It's not a million miles removed from what you regard as "absurd".

PeterIanStaker · 29-03-2010 11:04AM

Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy

35notout wrote: »

Small point, but Catholicism is not a religion,

no you're quite right, its a business/paedophile ring.

Lux23 · 29-03-2010 12:06PM

In every walk of life you are going to find people who abuse children sadly its just a fact of life.

Dionysus · 29-03-2010 12:09PM

moonpurple wrote: »

many people went to seminaries and fled
john hume
mep joe higgins
gabriel byrne who backed mannix flynn becoming a councillor,

True. On the other hand, it is a tradition going back at least to the 19th century but perhaps to the post-Tridentine Church, that at least one son of large families had the privilege of a secondary school education if he was willing to go on to be a priest. My father was one of a very large family and the only one of the 7 surviving sons to go to secondary school (and a private boarding school at that) for this reason. He went on to the Columban seminary in Dalgan Park after boarding school, where there were over 600 seminarians when he was there in the mid-1950s.

Girls who wished to become nuns also had the same opportunity to progress to secondary school. My Mam ended up being plucked from rural Ireland to be a nun and got most of her secondary school education in Ireland before finishing it in a convent in Rome of all places as a seminarian (?) in the 1950s. If you were from a large and poor family expressing the intention of becoming a priest or nun was by far the most common way people could advance to secondary schools.

Like both of my parents, and as one of a big family I was also offered the chance to go to the same boarding school on condition that I went on to be a priest but I opted instead for the local Community College.

As a society we've a lot to be thankful for to Donogh O'Malley for introducing free education in 1969.

Noreen1 · 29-03-2010 12:49PM

Does anyone actually have any statistics on paedophilia? ie. Proportion of celibate men/women v. Those in a relationship. Proportion of priests/ministers/teachers/care workers etc v The population at large, who do not have easy access to/are in a position of power over children.

It seems only logical to try to check the facts before making any decision on this - and I am as angry as anyone else, (except, perhaps, the poor victims and their families) about the abuse that has taken place.

Noreen

BennyLava · 29-03-2010 01:09PM

Have any studies been carried out, as to how the concept of absolution, as practiced by the RCC could be a contributing factor

i.e. in that the perpetrator of abuse knowing that he has done wrong, seeks absolution from another Priest/ Bishop, thus "his" sin is forgiven, until he acts on his impulses again

The same sort of cleansing of sin doesn't happen in the Protestant churches as the relationship is more directly with God as opposed to dependence on intermediaries

I wonder how how may of the abusers having confessed to their fellow priests/ bishops were absolved and continued to abuse

ScumLord · 29-03-2010 01:32PM

megadodge wrote: »

Why "absurd" ?

Can you explain why hetrosexual men who have normal hetrosexual lives, when incarcerated in prison for long sentences end up having homosexual affairs there?

Because they've no choice in the matter if it's an American prison.

Dionysus wrote: »

Girls who wished to become nuns also had the same opportunity to progress to secondary school. My Mam ended up being plucked from rural Ireland to be a nun and got most of her secondary school education in Ireland before finishing it in a convent in Rome of all places as a seminarian (?) in the 1950s. If you were from a large and poor family expressing the intention of becoming

Your mother was pretty bad at being a nun.

Noreen1 · 29-03-2010 04:01PM

BennyLava wrote: »

Have any studies been carried out, as to how the concept of absolution, as practiced by the RCC could be a contributing factor

i.e. in that the perpetrator of abuse knowing that he has done wrong, seeks absolution from another Priest/ Bishop, thus "his" sin is forgiven, until he acts on his impulses again

The same sort of cleansing of sin doesn't happen in the Protestant churches as the relationship is more directly with God as opposed to dependence on intermediaries

I wonder how how may of the abusers having confessed to their fellow priests/ bishops were absolved and continued to abuse

I don't know about any such studies, however the absolution given requires true contrition for sins committed and a clear and sincere promise not to commit the same sin again. No contrition and promise not to re-offend = no absolution.

Since absolution comes from God, the priest merely being his spokesperson, as it were, I can't see any sicko managing to con himself that he has a clean slate to go and abuse again. Twisted as these guys were/are, I doubt if even they were arrogant enough to think they could con God - if they believe in him at all, that is.

Noreen

Glenster · 29-03-2010 04:07PM

Birds do it

Bees do it

Even educated fleas do it

Hope that clears things up.

Noreen1 · 29-03-2010 04:14PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

1) Make sex, sexuality and the act of sex itself dirty, disgusting and sinful in the minds of its herd, .

Herd?? Now that's insulting!

Noreen

Noreen1 · 29-03-2010 04:16PM

migozarad wrote: »

Conversely,Protestants prefer to rape OAPs

What is it about this thread that it seems to give a mandate to people to post offensive comments about other religions.

Noreen

goose2005 · 29-03-2010 06:19PM

brianthebard wrote: »

They have wives.

And husbands :eek:

M6 · 30-03-2010 08:59PM

They do have this problem but because they are typically small entities it doesn't attract the same attention. I read today of an instance of a JW (ok so they are not Christian)- this dude committed crimes of the same nature.

Check this out:
http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

The poll is badly worded. I can't vote on it! A simple yes or no or don't know would suffice.

Child abuse: do Protestant clergy not do it?

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