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Child abuse: do Protestant clergy not do it?

24

Comments

  • #32
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    "In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married."


    "The onset of pedophilia usually occurs during adolescence. Occasional pedophiles begin their activities during middle age but this late onset is uncommon."

    Adolescent priests? :rolleyes:

    Many Catholic priest went to seminary aged 14. (Gabriel Byrne was one - but he left)

    Secondly, the paedophiles who are priests were moved from parish to parish giving them more children to abuse. They're still a small proportion of all priests, but they seem to have had unlimited access to children even after they were found out.

    Thirdly, the Catholic attitude to sex meant that the sexual act was regarded as perverted in any case unless you were specifically trying to concieve a child. There are many married people with blighted sex lives because of this...how much more perverted could it become in those training for the priesthood?


  • #33
    Xluna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Xluna


    mike65 wrote: »
    Are paedophiles born or made?

    Probably a mix,like most things.


  • #34
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    The RCC is obsessed with what consenting adults of both genders get up to between the sheets. Because they cant get any themselves, it is their mission to;

    1) Make sex, sexuality and the act of sex itself dirty, disgusting and sinful in the minds of its herd, associating something pleasureable with sin is a great hook for controlling the ignorant.
    2) Degrade women, the RCC sees women as nothing more than baby factories to produce the next generation, who according to the RCC are born with "original sin".

    So, while that doesn't answer whether or not Protestant clergy engage in paedophilia, which I'm sure they do also, it goes some way to explaining the RCC mindset.


  • #35
    RustyBeanTin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭RustyBeanTin


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    is it possible for a man/woman to have sexual feelings for a child but repress them much the same as some gay people may repress their feelings for the same sex because they feel ashamed about it?
    Having a partner may ease the urge to commit something wrong but priests cant have a partner.


  • #36
    Elenxor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Elenxor


    Protestant clergy have sex with their wives until they procreate..
    Thereafter the whole unsavoury acts are never visited again thank you very much!:D


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  • #37
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    69 wrote: »
    Celibacy. Catholic priest may not marry, other religions allow their ministers to marry.

    Other than survival, procreation is our most basic instinct, suppress it at your peril.

    So all unmarried adults over the age of say 30 are suspect paedophiles ?


  • #38
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    So all unmarried adults over the age of say 30 are suspect paedophiles ?

    I don't think anybody is reading into that.

    However, it is a fair assumption to make that a life of celibacy is going to cause enormous sexual frustration in a person. Sex and procreation are our very raison d'etre, and to deny that to somebody is going to cause psychological problems.

    Some priests are mentally strong enough to deal with those problems, some priests bone the houskeeper, and other still prey on innocent children.

    At the end of the day, it the RCC wants to insist on this immoral and unnatural celibacy law, priests should be castrated - for their own good as well as that of their potential victims.


  • #39
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    me_right_one wrote: »
    Wrong Wrong WRONG!!!

    Its nothing to do with supressing your sexual urges, couldn't you just hire a prostitute in some town where you're not known? Anyway, the highest proportion of paedophiles are actually married, and abuse their own children.

    Now, that is something somebody here should be able to answer, given that so many of you 'thanked' Brianthebard's post which blamed celibacy.


  • #40
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    NekkidBibleMan wrote: »
    However, it is a fair assumption to make that a life of celibacy is going to cause enormous sexual frustration in a person. Sex and procreation are our very raison d'etre, and to deny that to somebody is going to cause psychological problems.

    Catholicism (along with many other religions) effictively prohibits all sexual activity outside of marriage.

    Yes I know its widely ignored but there are some dyed-in-the-wool Catholics who do go along with it.

    So if one is a unmarried adult and particularly devout Catholic do they face a stronger likelihood of becoming a paedophile ?

    I do think (insoar as its any of my business -which it isint really) the RCC should abolish its celibacy requirement however the assumption held in a lot of quarters that this would serve as some kind of panacea for the problem of clerical paedophillia is rather naive.


  • #41
    Gigiwagga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭Gigiwagga


    Sexual suppression and celibacy play critical roles in the twisted behaviour of these people. I would imagine the average healthy 18 year old masturbates ten times a day, or more. Suddenly he joins a seminary (no pun intended) and sex is a sin, women are a sin, impure thoughts are a sin, skin is a sin, erections are big hard sins, arousal is a big manky sin, sins sins sins. Children are innocent and pure and easy to control, thus they become the target of these suppressed men. These men committed horrendous crimes, and made children suffer mindboggling cruelty and pain. But they are company men, the company's ethos is equally to blame, and the people behind it.
    Ratzinger should be in custody right now, for knowingly operating a paedo-ring, he concealed and protected these people, and gave them more children to rape, as should Brady et al.
    Their company (the RC Church) is a disgusting s***hole, cesspit of betrayal and dishonesty and corruption. Ratzinger makes Robert Mugabe look like Nelson Mandela. And time I see the pope I want to vomit on the TV, he disgusts me, to me he is the personification of evil.
    And I don't like using such a biblical word as 'evil' for any body, but for him it's appropriate, IMO.


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  • #42
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    info@williamrua wrote: »
    Sexual suppression and celibacy play critical roles in the twisted behaviour of these people. I would imagine the average healthy 18 year old masturbates ten times a day, or more. Suddenly he joins a seminary (no pun intended) and sex is a sin, women are a sin, impure thoughts are a sin, skin is a sin, erections are big hard sins, arousal is a big manky sin, sins sins sins. Children are innocent and pure and easy to control, thus they become the target of these suppressed men. These men committed horrendous crimes, and made children suffer mindboggling cruelty and pain. But they are company men, the company's ethos is equally to blame, and the people behind it.
    Ratzinger should be in custody right now, for knowingly operating a paedo-ring, he concealed and protected these people, and gave them more children to rape, as should Brady et al.
    Their company (the RC Church) is a disgusting s***hole, cesspit of betrayal and dishonesty and corruption. Ratzinger makes Robert Mugabe look like Nelson Mandela. And time I see the pope I want to vomit on the TV, he disgusts me, to me he is the personification of evil.
    And I don't like using such a biblical word as 'evil' for any body, but for him it's appropriate, IMO.

    The fuck?! :confused:


  • #43
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Catholicism (along with many other religions) effictively prohibits all sexual activity outside of marriage.

    Yes I know its widely ignored but there are some dyed-in-the-wool Catholics who do go along with it.

    So if one is a unmarried adult and particularly devout Catholic do they face a stronger likelihood of becoming a paedophile ?

    Well, I would say yes.

    If there's a normally healthy man who will crack off a **** when he's horny, will have sex with women and so on, I would say he is less likely to abuse children.

    If there's a normally healthy man who has been told that cracking off a ****, watching porn and having sex before marriage is dirty, evil and prohibited, I would imagine he would be more likely to become perverted and possible abuse kids than the guy above. At least they can still openly admit to finding women attractive and pursue them though.

    It's the man who has been told and believes all of the above, becomes a priest and has no glimmer of hope of every getting his rocks off and it not being an affront against god, that's most likely to abuse kids, I would say.


  • #44
    35notout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭35notout


    me_right_one wrote: »
    Wrong Wrong WRONG!!!

    Its just that Catholicism is the biggest religon in the world, hence the (seemingly) higher proportion.

    Small point, but Catholicism is not a religion, its a church or faith under the Christian Religion.

    Catholic priests have always had more of a "god complex" than their other Christian counterparts imo - this had led them to believe they can do nothing wrong. Abusing children was their way of showing their power

    Fear of the priest etc


  • #45
    robby^5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭robby^5


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    The celibacy is almost certainly the reason behind it. It's a great cover story to go along with access to trusting children.


  • #46
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Given that the term "Child abuse" covers a lot more more than mere paedophillia surely Protestant clergy are more prone to it since many of them have children of their own to abuse ?

    And if we go for the Dawkinesque definition of "Child abuse" just about all clergy are child abusers since they attempt to brainwash children.


  • #47
    beanyb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭beanyb


    I think celibacy, and the f&cked up attitude to sex that is prevalent in the Catholic church, is a factor. But it's not the only factor. Another important factor is the amount of power that the Catholic church had in this country. This in turn has contributed to the cover-up which has made the scandal far worse for all involved. Access to children is obviously another. Power, and access to children is likely to attract people with paedophilic tendencies, and the culture within the Catholic church just exacerbated this even further.

    There are probably paedophiles in all/most walks of life, including the Protestant clergy. However, other institutions didn't offer as great an opportunity for these predators to commit their crimes, and to get away with them if anyone actually found out.


  • #48
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    beanyb wrote: »
    I think celibacy, and the f&cked up attitude to sex that is prevalent in the Catholic church, is a factor. But it's not the only factor.

    Agreed.

    After all if the linkage between celibacy and paedophillia was as strong as some people reckon then surely the Government should be providing prostitutes for those who cannot find partners by virtue of being too ugly/disabled/geeky/busy/socially unskilled/otherwise unqualified in order to prevent them turning into paedophiles :pac:


  • #49
    pljudge321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭pljudge321


    RustyBeanTin wrote: »
    is it possible for a man/woman to have sexual feelings for a child but repress them much the same as some gay people may repress their feelings for the same sex because they feel ashamed about it?
    Having a partner may ease the urge to commit something wrong but priests cant have a partner.

    Something I've always wondered about is the amount of people who are paedophiles but never act on their attraction. Its actually quite scary when you think about it.


  • #50
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    Reading this entire thread I cant see any actual evidence that Catholic priests are more likely to be pedophiles than other people with access to children ( i.e. anybody acting as parents, or locus parentis).

    Abuse clearly runs through any kind of society - and whether the perp was married or not has little significance. I was going to quote BrianTheBard's trite comment and say

    "Joesph Frietzal was married".


    ( Were I a Thanks whore).

    There are legitimate comments to be made about the Catholic hierarchy from these scandals, there are no legitimate comments to be made about Catholicism, or Irish society. Except that we wash our dirty linen in public.

    Take our neighbours - Spain. No scandals. Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

    No. Spain probably has child abusing priests.

    So what about Protestant Europe. Or secular Europe. Are there child abusers in secular schools, protestant schools, nurseries, etc.

    Let's take the UK.

    1) Kincora.
    2) Anecrdotal evidence on all Public schools.
    3) Islington.
    4) Jersey. ( these two linked).
    5) Child abuse of the 10,000 children transported to Australia.
    6) Abuse in kindergartens.

    Belgium had a scandal that seemed to go to the top, then we heard nothing from it.

    The Catholic church is to blame, but not Catholicism or Catholic societies.

    We investigate our abuse because the Catholic church is the ruling class no longer.

    If the UK opened it's lid, it would bring down - I think - plenty of the great and mighty.


  • #51
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    for those who cannot find partners by virtue of being too ugly/disabled/geeky/busy/socially unskilled/otherwise unqualified in order to prevent them turning into paedophiles

    Putting it like that shows the absurdity of the "celibacy cause pedophilia" nonsense.

    And this: most child abusers are parents. Most abused children are abused by their parents.


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  • #52
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    The Irish people should share responsibility, especially the older generations. They gave the church power and status it did not deserve and should not have had. The priesthood was therefore viewed upon as a position of power and prestige. So many parents pushed their sons into the priesthood to gain reflected glory, however you reap what you sow. The fact that quite a few of these 'priests' were sick fcuks, was inevitable. The culture of abuse would indeed seem endemic to the Catholic church, no other religion even begins to come close.


  • #53
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    The culture of abuse would indeed seem endemic to the Catholic church, no other religion even begins to come close.

    Proof?


  • #54
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    medicman2009 wrote: »
    The culture of abuse would indeed seem endemic to the Catholic church, no other religion even begins to come close.

    Among others the Waco branch of the Branch Davidians or some of the most fundamentalist branches of Islam could probably give them a run for their money in all fairness ?
    pljudge321 wrote: »
    Something I've always wondered about is the amount of people who are paedophiles but never act on their attraction. Its actually quite scary when you think about it.

    Why ?

    Surely its the ones which do act on it are the ones to be scared about ?

    According to an item I heard on the radio onetime (dont have further details but for what its worth) around 1% of the population are paedophiles but only a tenth of them ever act on it.


  • #55
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    one protestant clergyman would be reverend lovejoy of the simpsons,

    observe he has a wife..sexual outlet,

    a child, therefore understands that children are not vague objects who are indifferent to grotesue choices

    he also does not believe that to go to confession sets the meter back to 0

    he also has a positive idea of being a christian and not the sneaky, slithering, secretive dishonest shiite that passes for christianity among many catholics, let alone their priests

    I am a survivor of an Irish Catholic childhood which is theologically abusive,


  • #56
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    So all unmarried adults over the age of say 30 are suspect paedophiles ?
    I never said that.
    Are all unmarried adults over 30 celibate and see celibacy stretching out before them until their dying day? That must have some effect on your mental well being. Enforced celibacy is just not natural.

    I would also venture that priests don't become paedophiles, my guess is that paedophiles become priests. The access to children coupled with the power and trust that priests used to enjoy in the community was like being given the keys to a sweetie shop. Then if they were caught they were protected by their superiors. Win win all the way for the sickos.


  • #57
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    observe he has a wife..sexual outlet,

    For the love of Logic. The vast majority of child abuse is carried on by the married.


  • #58
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    I would also venture that priests don't become paedophiles, my guess is that paedophiles become priests..

    Isnt that the exact opposite of your original argument about celibacy. I agree that paedophiles become priests.

    And everybody has a right hand, and a left one if necessary. Sexual relief is not the issue.


  • #59
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Yes, child abuse is culturally endemic to the Catholic Clergy
    Among others the Waco branch of the Branch Davidians

    That was unproven horse**** justifying a armed attack by a paramilitary arm of the US government


  • #60
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    its completely unnatural for a man or woman to go through life celibate, thats why so many catholic priests are alcoholics & loopy in the head


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  • #61
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Pittens wrote: »
    Isnt that the exact opposite of your original argument about celibacy. I agree that paedophiles become priests.

    And everybody has a right hand, and a left one if necessary. Sexual relief is not the issue.

    No it's not the opposite, it's a complimentary factor. Masturbation, as you so coyly alluded to, is a sin in the eyes of the Church. Priests are not supposed to do it. If they don't, they loose that outlet. If they can somehow involve someone else in the act they can rationalise it away.


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