Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish language?

1…5681011…18

Comments

  • #212
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Yes, it's taught so well that we're getting an increase in the failure rate year after year, and that the ones that do pass either fall out of maths entirely or they're poorly equipped for third level. Seriously, maths isn't taught well by any stretch of the imagination. The curriculum is outdated along with the methods, it's taught like a 'dead language', doing maths for the sake of maths, which isn't how maths should be done, unless you're John Nash or something.

    That's fair enough - I'm not a maths guy, so I'll take your word for it.

    El Siglo wrote: »
    I'm saying is, that maths has more uses that go beyond the scope of IT and Science. You could be a barrister and if you were good at maths, arguing a case would be absolutely piss. Just an example, maths is the heart of a logical argument, beautifully constructed it can be highly effective!:D
    Maths isn't just useful in the work place, it's useful in nearly every academic discipline. It's near next to impossible to escape it, the same can't be said for Irish.

    Nobody was trying to make the argument that Irish is more useful academically than Maths. Apples and oranges.
    El Siglo wrote: »
    That's reason enough, if the language was going to grow, it would have and should have grown by now.

    Not entirely true. If the language was taught correctly, it would have grown. But even after decades of teaching - our Government still hasn't come to the basic conclusion of how important spoken Irish is. They are trying to jump two steps ahead without tackling the most important aspect of language - the ability to speak it.
    El Siglo wrote: »
    It's sad to think the Israelis were able to introduce Hebrew, a language that in the 1940s was completely dead and had almost been replaced by Yiddish as a spoken language, now look at the Israel. Irish hasn't grown by any stretch of the imagination, it's going to continue to decline.

    Israel made it compulsory to learn, and the state language (and not just in a fake sense like our Government did). Although - I don't see any arguments being made that it affected Israel's ability to produce a highly educated work-force.

    El Siglo wrote: »
    And I didn't say you were a cultural elitist? My experience of some Irish speakers, going to school, college etc... has been that because they speak Irish, they're some how 'more' Irish than me.

    Those types of people are shítehawks. And I've encountered them myself. But they are an extreme minority within the Irish language community.


  • #213
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Also been to the Hebrides and I've heard Irish spoken on one maybe two occasions. Never heard it in Scotland(though in fairness that was only a few trips).

    Dude, the hebrides is in Scotland ;)

    Although, if you want to conquer it with dlofnep - I'm game! That was Scottish Gaelic they were speaking. The Hebrides is like the Aran Islands of Scotland in the sense that the traditions, culture and language has remained basically untouched.


  • #214
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    owenc wrote: »
    what did it sound like out of intrest?
    from my english point of view[and i believe that, because i spent years from the 1950s to the late 60s in the merchant navy] i heard many of the worlds languages and this sounded to me beautiful ,it was spoken by a oldish man to the young girl in the shop/garage ,i was so impressed i had to ask her if that was irish he was speaking,looking at my family history it says that both my ancestors who left ireland for england in the 1820s were unable to speak one word of english,so now i know what it sounded like


  • #215
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    owenc wrote: »
    I dont think [followed by more uninformed nonsense]

    There's your problem there. Educate yourself and stop spouting about stuff you have no knowledge of. Prejudice and knowledge are different things.


  • #216
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    getz wrote: »
    from my english point of view[and i believe that, because i spent years from the 1950s to the late 60s in the merchant navy] i heard many of the worlds languages and this sounded to me beautiful ,it was spoken by a oldish man to the young girl in the shop/garage ,i was so impressed i had to ask her if that was irish he was speaking,looking at my family history it says that both my ancestors who left ireland for england in the 1820s were unable to speak one word of english,so now i know what it sounded like

    ok thanks.. thats good and very intersting.


  • Advertisement
  • #217
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    I dont think youd find very many people speaking it well.. they would just do that in school as a hobby..

    Yes, you would. I've been to every Gaeltacht region in Ireland, so I feel I'm qualified to say so. How many have you been to?


  • #218
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    There's your problem there. [followed by yet another obnoxious comment]
    Seriously Rebel. What exactly went wrong with your toilet training? :)
    Did your parents get a cross between Derek Wilford and Mr. T on the job? :P


  • #219
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Not entirely true. If the language was taught correctly, it would have grown. But even after decades of teaching - our Government still hasn't come to the basic conclusion of how important spoken Irish is. They are trying to jump two steps ahead without tackling the most important aspect of language - the ability to speak it.
    Yes IMHO a lot of that was down to the notion that "well you're irish of course you can speak it" kinda thing.


    Israel made it compulsory to learn, and the state language (and not just in a fake sense like our Government did). Although - I don't see any arguments being made that it affected Israel's ability to produce a highly educated work-force.
    Yep but in the case of basque and the eastern european languages the invading/majority language was made compulsory yet the languages survived and thrived. There's something else going on with irish and the irish psyche. I've joked about it before, but in some ways its not a joke, ban irish and watch it grow. :) I think there are other things too. One unspoken one is although the peoples of these islands have had serious back and forth issues over the ages, we're quite bonded as a group. We're more connected with each other than say a basque is to spain or france, or a Pole is to russia. The need to detach completely from each other is less. IMHO even if we had been the ones to invade Britain and not the other way around* and Irish had become the world language, there would be few enough saxin english speakers too.

    *well we did invade them and they invaded us, time and time again. It was hard to keep up with who was invading whom until the normans showed up :D


    Those types of people are shítehawks. And I've encountered them myself. But they are an extreme minority within the Irish language community.
    Again I guess its a personal experience thing. I've found in my life anyway, more of the Im more irish than you types, than not. Funny the few actual first language native Irish speakers were not like that at all. It was like with religion the "converts" were the pain in the arse.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #220
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Yes, you would. I've been to every Gaeltacht region in Ireland, so I feel I'm qualified to say so. How many have you been to?
    Pretty much all of them. Heard it once twice maybe. Then again I cat speak it so...

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #221
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Yes, you would. I've been to every Gaeltacht region in Ireland, so I feel I'm qualified to say so. How many have you been to?

    i was talking about scotland clearly!... and i have never been to an irish speaking area..


  • Advertisement
  • #222
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    i was talking about scotland clearly!... and i have never been to an irish speaking area..

    Very well.

    So you've been to the Hebrides? I find it hard to believe that you didn't see many Gaelic speakers there. Where exactly in the Hebrides were you?


  • #223
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Very well.

    So you've been to the Hebrides? I find it hard to believe that you didn't see many Gaelic speakers there. Where exactly in the Hebrides were you?

    no but i was in the highlands somewhere outside glasgow 20 miles north of glasgow and also 20 miles or so north of dundee.


  • #224
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    no but i was in the highlands somewhere outside glasgow 20 miles north of glasgow and also 20 miles or so north of dundee.

    Ok - But I was discussing the Hebrides. They have the largest Gaelic speaking population in Scotland. So if you haven't visited there - it's not unusual that you haven't met many Gaelic speakers.

    Here is a population map of Gaelic speakers: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/ScotlandGaelicSpeakers2001.gif


  • #225
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Ok - But I was discussing the Hebrides. They have the largest Gaelic speaking population in Scotland. So if you haven't visited there - it's not unusual that you haven't met many Gaelic speakers.

    Here is a population map of Gaelic speakers: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/ScotlandGaelicSpeakers2001.gif

    oh well anywonder then.. thanks map good info.


  • #226
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    oh well anywonder then.. thanks map good info.

    No probs :)

    You won't find Gaelic spoken much outside of the Hebrides. But it's very strong there.


  • #227
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    owenc wrote: »
    I dont think youd find very many people speaking it well.. they would just do that in school as a hobby..

    Er....Sorry to disappoint you, but I acually live in the Gaeltacht, and the vast majority of us speak it very well. In many households, it is the primary language (not mine - my OH is Scots, though all of my children are native speakers):)

    Noreen


  • #228
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    lugha wrote: »
    Seriously Rebel. What exactly went wrong with your toilet training? :)
    Did your parents get a cross between Derek Wilford and Mr. T on the job? :P

    Don't even mention toiletry matters with the amount of abject shíte you two have been spewing here about things related to Irish history, Irish culture and Irish politics.

    If you two went to university and applied yourselves to studying these topics, topics which you appear to be very interested in blabbering about, you would be worthy of respect. At present, with little to no knowledge between your collective heads about things Irish, you are expecting to be as respected as somebody who has studied these subjects for years can legitimately expect. It doesn't work like that.

    Put the work in and you'll be respected. Feign knowledge and your posts will, rightly, be derided.


  • #229
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Er....Sorry to disappoint you, but I acually live in the Gaeltacht, and the vast majority of us speak it very well. In many households, it is the primary language (not mine - my OH is Scots, though all of my children are native speakers):)

    Noreen

    No sorry I was talking about Scotland.. It's funny and weird how they speak another language down where you live


  • #230
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    owenc wrote: »
    No sorry I was talking about Scotland.. It's funny and weird how they speak another language down where you live

    In fact - in fact - you were clearly and unequivocally speaking about Ireland as the post in question makes clear.


  • #231
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    owenc wrote: »
    No sorry I was talking about Scotland.. It's funny and weird how they speak another language down where you live

    Not funny considering the language has been spoken here for well over 1000 years. Coleraine itself is an Irish word which comes from "Chúil Raithin".


  • Advertisement
  • #232
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    you are expecting to be as respected as somebody who has studied these subjects for years can legitimately expect.
    Tut tut Rebel. Such an awkward grammatical construct. Your game is slipping. :p

    If I went to university? So you're am intellectual snob as well an an Anglophobe? Unusual combination :eek:. A fine education, which you undoubtedly have, is somewhat diminished by this, and your staggering intolerance of, and rudeness towards, those whose opinions differ from yours, don't you think?
    Actually don't answer. I'm sure I could hazard a guess at what you think. :)


  • #233
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    lugha wrote: »
    So you're am intellectual snob as well an an Anglophobe?

    an*

    as*

    Jaysus, look at dlofnep go! Not a bit of shakespeare in me!

    JK :D


  • #234
    lugha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    dlofnep wrote: »
    an*

    as*

    Jaysus, look at dlofnep go! Not a bit of shakespeare in me!

    JK :D
    Now now dlopdep. Know your place. It's the Rebels job to correct people's grammar / spelling. :)


  • #235
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    lugha wrote: »
    Now now dlopdep. Know your place. It's the Rebels job to correct people's grammar / spelling. :)

    Rebel's :-)


  • #236
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    owenc wrote: »
    No sorry I was talking about Scotland.. It's funny and weird how they speak another language down where you live


    :D:D:D Now that is funny!

    Down where I live, we have spoken Gaeilge for hundreds (if not thousands) of years. We don't find it at all funny, or weird. Just normal!:D

    Noreen


  • #237
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    lugha wrote: »
    Now now dlopdep. Know your place. It's the Rebels job to correct people's grammar / spelling. :)

    Just taking the piss buddy ;)

    I don't really care either way about all that grammar and spelling malarky!


  • #238
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    lugha wrote: »
    If I went to university? So you're am intellectual snob as well an an Anglophobe?Unusual combination :eek:.

    Hello? Hello? History lesson: the English are nothing but a bunch of upstart merchants. Mere merchants trying to ape the Normans, but, in Ireland anyway, treated with contempt by the Normans for their crude nouveau riche notions.

    To be intellectual and opposed to this crowd of blood-thirsty, monastery-robbing, land-grabbing peasants that pass as the New English (i.e. the English, as they are now known) is a historically solid position in Ireland. Intellectualism, English style, was attained through the barrel of many, many guns and marked by a willingness to break established norms of warfare and engage in mass murder such as the scorched earth policies of Humphrey Gilbert, Walter Devereaux and Richard Bingham. Nothing respectable, never mind intellectual, about that reality.

    /Lesson.

    lugha wrote: »
    Actually don't answer. I'm sure I could hazard a guess at what you think. :)

    Oh, OK.:)


  • #239
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    unreggd wrote: »
    Agree 100%
    Post reported.
    unreggd wrote: »
    I never said you have to be forced to learn it.
    But you agree that one should be forced to learn it ?
    unreggd wrote: »
    Its compulsory now, so I was merely suggesting ways to make people enjoy it more, before we just get rid of it all together
    Yes it is compulsory, but it shouldn't be. That's what the dicussion is about.
    unreggd wrote: »
    Most people don't want/need secondary-level maths, but good look gettin rid of that
    Mathamatics is the most important subject in school, it is the father science from which all other sciences originate.

    Anyone who can even compare a dead language to mathamatics doesn't even deserve an opinion in school curricula.
    unreggd wrote: »
    And my comment about using Irish to talk about Irish people was clearly sarcasm.

    Get a grip
    As was mine.

    Perhaps you should get a life ? One that doesn't involve spending a huge number of hours learning a dead language.


  • #240
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    But you agree that one should be forced to learn it ?

    Nobody is forced to learn Irish.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes it is compulsory, but it shouldn't be. That's what the dicussion is about.

    You "feel" it shouldn't be. That is not the popular opinion of the Irish public. Most people are indifferent either way, and are content with Irish being a part of the curriculum.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Anyone who can even compare a dead language to mathamatics doesn't even deserve an opinion in school curricula.

    The Irish language is not a dead language.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Perhaps you should get a life ? One that doesn't involve spending a huge number of hours learning a dead language.

    I'm sorry, but who are you to dictate to someone what they can or cannot spend time on? Just because you're unwilling to invest time into the language does not mean it's not useful to someone else who invests time into it.


  • Advertisement
  • #241
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Nobody is forced to learn Irish.
    Irish is a mandatory subject for every person attending school in ireland unless that person was born abroad.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    You "feel" it shouldn't be. That is not the popular opinion of the Irish public. Most people are indifferent either way, and are content with Irish being a part of the curriculum.
    Then Irish should be made optional and the majority that do want to learn it can continue doing so. Those of us who would rather spend countless hours learning something useful can do that instead.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    The Irish language is not a dead language.
    Yes, it is.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but who are you to dictate to someone what they can or cannot spend time on? Just because you're unwilling to invest time into the language does not mean it's not useful to someone else who invests time into it.
    I'm not dictating anything to anyone. I want Irish to be made optional, it is those in favour of Irish remaining mandatory that wish to dictate others.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement