Road to the Raid

blorg · 19-02-2010 3:53pm

I suspect like Lumen you are overdoing it at the start of the 8% climbs. Do you find your speed dropping or it getting more difficult as you go up? For a long climb I will start easy and increase effort as I go up. In the Alps/Pyrenees I have often been passed at the bottom by people I catch later and sail past. They generally look in severe difficulty at that point. Exact same principle with a time trial, you start slow and let the pain come to you rather than go looking for it. Key difference is you should be going a lot easier up the hills than you would go in a time trial. There is 4.5 days of it after all.

8%+ can be easier than cycling on the flat if you only go slow enough. I found the Solour/Aubisque very easy even with 20kg of luggage, easier than the ones I went up unloaded.

Tom's tip about forgetting there is a top at all is a very good one. Forces you to ride sustainably.

Raam · 19-02-2010 4:04pm

Actually, I just remembered that my bro did the vast majority of his training for the WW200 on his turbo having never done anything remotely like the hills in Wicklow before. He's no slouch.

niceonetom · 19-02-2010 4:14pm

Lumen wrote: »

When I eventually get around to doing the Marmotte, I'll give you one half of the picture. In fact, I might train for it almost exclusively on the turbo.

It is often asserted that lactate threshold is the most consistent predictor of performance in endurance events, and the most effective way to raise your threshold is through lots of sweet spot training.

If the hills help you achieve that, great.

However, it's not all about the numbers, and training should be fun too. I'd rather do hill repeats or long spins in Wicklow than endless flat interval work on the featureless backroads of Meath.

Incongruities emboldened!

I never trust a graph with arbitrary units...

The sweet-spot thing is something I've come around to - and I think it gets results quite quickly, but I counter your tip with specificity in this game of Joe Freil top-trumps. It is certainly important to train to raise threshold power but economy is crucial for long days and long climbs, and that means doing what you will be doing on the day.

EDIT: Also, 8 of the first 14 men to win on Alpe D'Huez were Dutch. Make of that what you will.

ROK ON · 19-02-2010 4:35pm

Tom. Re the Dutch. IIRC Gert Jan Thuinesse was built like a centre forward but conqured many climbs.
However he took many many drugs. Either him or Rooks. When they rode with Kelly at PDM the bus was known as the pharmacy.

niceonetom · 19-02-2010 4:47pm

Well, I think know what you've got to do then.

Chips Lovell · 19-02-2010 5:40pm

niceonetom wrote: »

Well, I think know what you've got to do then.

Steal Sean Kelly's bus?

ROK ON · 20-02-2010 4:38pm

60km done today in about 2h20m.
Weekly total - 165km.

Planned longer today but two things:
(1) Couldnt leave until midday due to frost and had to be back by 2.30pm.
(2) Have what I suspect is a kidney condition. In mucho pain, agony actually. Felt awful coming off the bike, but strangely enough good on the bike.
Awaiting medical test results before making a decision, but in short term, training has to be reduced for time being due to heavy workload and family committments.

Anyway - spent 40km of the 60km spinning furiously in the 39 ring.
Still have not managed a century this year - that needs to change.

Goals for next four weeks
(1) sort out medical issues.
(2) Do a few 100kmers if at all possible. Possible in the sense of time issues and general well being at the moment. Pretty much exhausted to be honest. Only peace and quiet I get is actually on the bike, or on night out with the missus.
(3) Do more hill repeats - strangely satisfying in a brutally punishing type of way.
(4) If health issues clear up the 2*310 km rides on week 2 and week 3 in March. (310km over 2 days, not in one day).
(5) Spend a week in London for work and gorging myself in all the culinary delights that London has to offer for the week. I am staying in Park Lane, so I must say I am looking forward to this trip. However the rewards will only be justifiable should my pain subside and serious bloody training resumes over the next 4 weeks.

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/17771
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/17772

Lumen · 20-02-2010 6:32pm

Get well soon. Had a kidney stone around Christmas '08, I feel your pain.

Have you been here? Top Szechuan grub, IIRC.

Been down to that Thai place down Baggot St you recommended, very good.

ROK ON · 21-02-2010 4:19pm

Lumen wrote: »

Have you been here? Top Szechuan grub, IIRC.

Thanks. One of my fave pubs The Toucan is close by. Hope to try it. Love Sichuan cooking.

ROK ON · 26-02-2010 8:51pm

145km done this week, hoping tomorrow or Sunday brings that to 230km plus for the week.
May not sound like a lot to some people, but I am pretty contented given family and work committments. At present there I am training all that I can practically. However I do feel stronger on the bike, if no faster.
1*50km including 3 hill repeats. (Blue lamp and onto top of Barnaculla, plus Three Rock *2 to last gate (ice beyond so no further)).

Flat 60km spin to saggart and back. reasonably fast, Avg speed 25km but impacted by traffic lights early on. Reckon median speed around 30km. Fast for me. 2 sets of high cadence seated drills (circa 20mins with HR around 160+, followed by recovery).

Couple of commutes.

Felt great on both training runs. One small concern is that despite weight loss my time up Three Rock (17mins to last gate) is actually no faster than my times for the Boards time trial up last october. I have to push myself to get up, and I know that I can. However I thought that I would be faster. Keep trying I guess.

Tomorrow I am planning circa 90km loop, with maybe 1400m of ascent. One easy long climb (drag), One 6km killer at 8% and two 5km climbs at 4-5%. Borlin Valley, Priests Leap if the road is ok, then a few repeats on Caha Pass Tunnels. All on the Cork and Kerry mountains.

Had some health issues, and blood tests have seemed to rule a few things out that are a relief. Doc reckons that I have been overhydrating however, so I should watch that.

On the blood tests, my Haematocrit came back at 0.497. That would seem high - why does not not translate into better ability on the bike. Is it because I is black fat? Does haematocrit actually mean anything. Does it vary too much to be useful.

No weight loss this week. Ate like a pig. December showed a lot of discipline, as did January. While I have lost some weight in February, I have not realy followed my diet. March needs to refocus, as I so much want to get another 6kg gone by end of April.

Beasty · 26-02-2010 9:08pm

Are you attempting Three Rock fresh? I found that climbing a local hill after 3 days off the bike I was over 15% faster than when I have commuted (admittedly 50km or so) the same day.

Lumen · 26-02-2010 9:09pm

ROK ON wrote: »

One small concern is that despite weight loss my time up Three Rock (17mins to last gate) is actually no faster than my times for the Boards time trial up last october.

Races are always faster, don't sweat it. We should organise another one as soon as the clocks go forward.

ROK ON wrote: »

On the blood tests, my Haematocrit came back at 0.497. That would seem high - why does not not translate into better ability on the bike. Is it because I is black fat? Does haematocrit actually mean anything

Judging my Millar's comments on the effects of EPO, and my own very dim understanding of biology, haematocrit level reflects the potential of your highest level aerobic activity (e.g. flat out hill climbing/time trialling). At lower levels of training and/or effort you are unlikely to be maxing out your blood oxygen carrying capacity, therefore the high haematocrit level won't help much.

I am open to correction by the more knowledgable.

ROK ON · 26-02-2010 9:35pm

@Beasty: Fair point. Did 3 Rock after 9hours at work and a 18km ride there, oh I was up since 0430 that morning also.
@Lumen: Fair point. I am no athlete and hate going anywhere near the pain cave, so I am unlikely to ever find out.
Main thing I take from this is that I can bust myself up on a climb. But once I get to the top and catch my breath, I tend to recover very quickly. After most training sessions I would not feel it in my legs at all. Maybe I am improving or maybe I am not pushing myself. However even after doing the WW200 last year, I was not tired the following morning.

Raam · 27-02-2010 11:57am

Does anyone else feel really guilty after reading ROK ON's training log?

ROK ON · 27-02-2010 5:35pm

Raam wrote: »

Does anyone else feel really guilty after reading ROK ON's training log?

LOL. A lot of folk are doing a lot more time and intensity on the bike than I am. Like all of the folks racing for example. Its just that not as many people suffer from the same type of self adoration I do in order to committ this to file every week;).

Bad news first. Creme egg season has biten back. Gained 0.8kg this week. Nor surprise really. Need to refocus for March.

Good news. 93.5km in 4hours with 3 climbs (1229m ascent).
Total for the week 240km. Didnt do touhest climb in area (Priests Leap) as I didnt have the stones for it and the road I descend to get there was sh1te. Some other time. Did hill repeats on Caha Pass tunnels climb twice instead.
Felt reasonably strong. My first 4 hourcycle actually this year.

Hope to do a similar week next week. Given that this is what I feel is my most intense week this year so far, I will be interested to see what I am like next week.
Thanks for reading. Comments and critiques appreciated.

Garmin Files:
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/19275
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/19276
http://ridewithgps.com/trips/19277

ROK ON · 03-03-2010 1:48pm

Last night I took 38seconds off my time up ThreeRocj. I am happy.
Even more pleased in that unlike last week I never ended up going anaerobic to do it. So theoretically there is more in the tank should I ever wish to visit the pain cave.
Maybe this is progress. Long way to go but at least I am on the road.

Lumen · 03-03-2010 1:51pm

ROK ON wrote: »

Last night I took 38seconds off my time up ThreeRock

Nice one. Do you mind disclosing what that new PB is?

ROK ON · 03-03-2010 2:25pm

Lumen wrote: »

Nice one. Do you mind disclosing what that new PB is?

17m20s to the last gate. Ice beyond last week so that's where I measured split to. Next week 17m then 15 by end May..

ROK ON · 05-03-2010 12:03pm

Summary so far.

140km this week. 2*55km spins and a fgew fast paced commutes at high cadence.
Three Rock is getting more manageable as is the road up to the Blue Lamp.
Also did Howth Head for the first time. Nice. I thought I was going up the easy side, but took a wrong turn and ended up going by the coast up through a housing estate (St Fintans Road and Shiel Martin road). About 0.5km at 13% was nice.
I am finding that on high gradient stuff, that while my speed is laughably slow that I am able to control my HR much much better. Whereas in the past my HR would have always spiked to 185+ it now goes to about 178, which is a level that I can stay at for much longer than 185+.

Also finding that I have no problem doing 60km in the evenings back to back. In the next few weeks I want to put a few 150km plus spins back to back. If that is achieved I will be halfway where I want to be in terms of endurance for bothe the TourdeMunster and the Raid.

Hopefully over the next few months 2 things will happen, (1) HR continues to fall on climbs, meaning that I can last much much longer on the climbs, (2) that this allows me to concentrate a bit more on developing a higher speed while climbing.

Tomorrow the plan is to take a route that I have never taken before.
Kilgarvan to Morleys Bridge to Coom to Ballyvourney to Mullaghanish (650m with last 3km at 10%). Not sure how able I will be for this, but its worth a try. I would imagine that this is as tough if not tougher than priest Leap.
Other than Mt Leinster this is probably one of the few other climbs in the country that has the combination of length and gradient. While the length is only half to a third of what is likely in the Pyrenees, its better than nothing.
If I can get up this in March, then I will get up the Tourmalet (the part that is open) in May. Thats the theory anyway.

http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Mullaghanish&qryMountainID=7209

Raam · 05-03-2010 12:10pm

ROK ON wrote: »

ended up going by the coast up through a housing estate (St Fintans Road and Shiel Martin road). About 0.5km at 13% was nice.

I do a lot of my stuff on that section. I like it there. If you would like another challenge out that way, climb through the village, but take the right hand side of the church.

Route

You can also ride the opposite of that route and it has a nice section just as you leave Carrickbrack Road and head on to Old Carrickbrack Road and continues up as far as Windgate Rise.

ROK ON · 05-03-2010 12:23pm

Biggest issue with Howth is that I really had to fight hard the urge to head to beshoffs for a 1and1. Dont have that problem in 3 Rock, although I could kill a deer and have some venision tartare.

Thanks for the route. I will aim to head up Sheilmartin onto the Summit down to the Vilage and back up by that route by the church. A few nice lung busters for me there.

Raam · 05-03-2010 12:29pm

ROK ON wrote: »

Biggest issue with Howth is that I really had to fight hard the urge to head to beshoffs for a 1and1. Dont have that problem in 3 Rock, although I could kill a deer and have some venision tartare.

Thanks for the route. I will aim to head up Sheilmartin onto the Summit down to the Vilage and back up by that route by the church. A few nice lung busters for me there.

Cafe Caira at the bottom of the hill also do a nice fish and chips.

ROK ON · 06-03-2010 6:33pm

Today was hard. I planned on climbing Mullaghanish (630m, 7km, last 3.5km avg 10%). In getting there I drove to Kilgarvan and prepared for a nice cycle over the Top of Coom and on backroads to Ballyvourney. I thought this would be easy easy easy. It was sh1t. I was cold and tired. Did a quiz last night and was 1.15am before I got to bed and didnt sleep much the night before as one of the twins kept crying.
I was doing a stupidly low low speed, I mean soft-pedalling an easy gear at low cadence. I had no effort to give, tried to increase the cadence, tried mashing, none of this worked so I continued push a stupidly easy gear at low cadence leading to an embarassing speed. This was turning out to be an amble in the countryside not a cycle.
Anyway got to the Top of Coom (@325m they claim the highest pub in Ireland), only to find the descent covered in frost. Half way down this turned to black ice, so I was descending at 18-20km/h. Then the black ice turned to heavy thick white ice. I went down. Not hurt. Sort of walked/freewheeled down in the grass verge. In the distance looming over me I could se Mullaganish. I felt crap and defeated. By Christ I was getting to the top of that bloody thing if it killed me. Mootored onto Ballyvourney, crossed the roads and began climbing.

Mullaghanish is like Kippure or Three Rock in that it is a public road over a mountain that leads to a private road heading to a transmission mast. As I approached the gate I didnt have the legs to begin the 10% plus climb to the top, so I continued climbing on the public road to get to the summitt at 425m. I was now warmed up and a bit more confident. At the plateau turned around and descended to the gate of Mullaghanish.
Met a farmer who opened the gate, so that I didnt have to climb over.
Climb began at 287m and finished at 625m, about 3km if not a little more later. It consists of and 20 or 30 hairpins all the way up. The average is 10.5%, but most of the climb is at 15% Sounds crazy to say, but while I was very very slow, I felt great. I knew I was getting to the top. HR was mostly around 166bpm and occasionally up in the high 170's but never really went anaerobic. I was very happy, elated. I just pushed on and got to the top. I really felt as if my body could handled another 7km (although there is no way to prove this). I was never out of breath. No maybe my mind would not have allowed me.
At the top I could see Cork city in the distance, as well as Carrantouhil and the kerry mountains to my right. Stunning day.

Descended slowly to avoid hundreds of sheep, I mean hundreds.
Got back on the main road, and felt crap all over again.
Not a great training session, but one bright spark.

There is no climb in this country that I would not be able to get up IMO. Not fast, ridiculously slow actually, but at least I am able to get up.
I am not sure is this tougher than Prests Leap, as I am significantly fitter now than the last time I was up the Leap. However the road is so much better than the Leap or Kippure.
It is significantly tougher the Slieve Maan and Kippure IMHO.
I will try Kippure on Thursday hopefully, and put this thesis to the test.

Sorry for the longwindedness. But you are more than likely used to this by now.

http://ridewithgps.com/trips/20562

Captain Havoc · 06-03-2010 10:55pm

Doesn't Johnny Foxes claim to be the highest pub in Ireland? This actually turned out to be a shock to me when I climbed up to it because I arrived and was like "is that it".

lescol · 06-03-2010 11:10pm

I'm not sure I should derive such enjoyment out of your misery. Such a fabulous day for cycling, managed 62k this morning and was amazed at how many were out on bikes. So I had a good strong ride and enjoyed it all, last week on the same route I bonked, first time in years, it was hell to get back home, so get out, do it again and it will be great. Looking forward to the next episode.

blorg · 06-03-2010 11:14pm

A lot of pubs claim that, including one in Roundwood which is certainly not. If the pub ROK_ON mentions is at 325 I think it would probably pip Johnny Foxes, I would have to look up my GPS records to be sure

lescol · 06-03-2010 11:26pm

We have ye there boy! http://www.flickr.com/photos/gouganebride09/3415129471/

ten speed racer · 06-03-2010 11:42pm

blorg wrote: »

A lot of pubs claim that, including one in Roundwood which is certainly not. If the pub ROK_ON mentions is at 325 I think it would probably pip Johnny Foxes, I would have to look up my GPS records to be sure

The Ponderosa on the Glenshane in Derry also claims to be the highest pub in Ireland, but I think the one ROK_ON mentions is probably the true highest.

The tax man · 07-03-2010 1:01am

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Doesn't Johnny Foxes claim to be the highest pub in Ireland? This actually turned out to be a shock to me when I climbed up to it because I arrived and was like "is that it".

Much the same when you eat in there too.

Sorry,back on topic.

Fair play ROK ON,would love to join you heading up Kippure but on call this week. Any time you're over my direction on these midweek climbs give me a shout and I might join you if I can.

ROK ON · 07-03-2010 9:53am

blorg wrote: »

A lot of pubs claim that, including one in Roundwood which is certainly not. If the pub ROK_ON mentions is at 325 I think it would probably pip Johnny Foxes, I would have to look up my GPS records to be sure

The highest point on the road from Barnaculla ti Glencullen is 325m circa. However Foxes is at the bottom of that hill and is IIRC circa 285m.