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M11/N30 - Gorey to Enniscorthy [open to traffic]

24567…46

Comments

  • #52
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    As long as Gormley and his green 'advisors' haunt the DoE they will never do what they should do to him. There is a solution for serial wasters of court time. You declare them to be vexatious and frivolous and a waste of space.

    They did this to Denis Riordan http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2001/1006/01100600017.html in 2006.

    They did it to a rather Nutty Monaghan woman last year

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0720/1224250942623.html

    The solution is called an Isaac Wunder Order, a declaration by the court that a particular serial litigant is a waste of court time and is constantly abusing the legal process.

    But the department of the environment....his usual target....will not do that :(


  • #53
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    As long as Gormley and his green 'advisors' haunt the DoE they will never do what they should do to him. There is a solution for serial wasters of court time. You declare them to be vexatious and frivolous and a waste of space.

    They did this to Denis Riordan http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2001/1006/01100600017.html in 2006.

    They did it to a rather Nutty Monaghan woman last year

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0720/1224250942623.html

    The solution is called an Isaac Wunder Order, a declaration by the court that a particular serial litigant is a waste of court time and is constantly abusing the legal process.

    Interesting... you're a fountain of factoids Spongey!


  • #54
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Furet wrote: »
    Interesting... you're a fountain of factoids Spongey!

    I shall simply refer to him as Isaac from now on, consider yourselves warned :cool:


  • #55
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    They did this to Denis Riordan http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2001/1006/01100600017.html in 2006.

    He was my lecturer in college. Probably deserved what he got.


  • #56
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Roryhy wrote: »
    True. This route may avoid knocking houses?...thats all i can think.

    Have you noticed at Ballydawnmore junction, that the link road then continues alongside the motorway to link up with the R744 at Tomnafunshoge? In all the roads offer quite a substantial package to the town and will make one hell of a difference to traffic congestion in the area.

    I agree, but I'm not talking about the need for the scheme, I'm talking about its poor alignment. I think its actually two projects amalgamated, and the old part has obviously not been revised. That's what our planning system precludes - common sense and flexibility. Not a blade of grass has been touched yet, and they've already made a meal of it... :rolleyes:


  • #57
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    Since this is going ahead as a single project on the PPP process it may be worth starting a thread on it as the N/M11 updates one is getting too bundled up now. The NRA have announced a contract notice lately.
    Title: M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy PPP Contract

    Published by: National Roads Authority

    Publication Date: 11/02/2010

    Application Deadline: 07/04/2010

    Notice Deadline Date: 08/04/2010

    Notice Deadline Time: 12:00

    Notice Type: Contract Notice

    Has Documents: Yes

    Abstract: The M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy PPP Contract comprises the design, construction operation, maintenance and financing of approximately 26 kilometres of motorway/dual carraigeway forming part of the N11 national primary route, together with several kilometres of associated side roads and link roads.All such elements of work set out above are approximate only and may be reduced or added to by the Authority following dialogue with those Candidates selected to proceed to the next stage of the competition or otherwise at the Authority's absolute discretion. The Authority may also extend the operation and maintenance elements to include other parts of the national road network.Further information and details of the project can be obtained in the Information Memorandum and Pre-Qualification

    Map of the scheme on the N11 thread

    105337.jpg
    Overview of scheme: The Scheme will see the construction of three new roads:

    M11/N11 Mainline: will connect the existing N11 in Clogh at the north, approximately 19km northeast of Enniscorthy, to the existing N11 in Scurlocksbush at the south, approximately 7km south of Enniscorthy

    N80 Link road: will connect the existing N11 and existing N80 at Ballynahallin at its eastern end to the M11 Mainline in Ballydawmore to the west.

    N30 Mainline: will connect the existing N11 and existing N80 in Clavass to the north to the existing N30 in Templescoby to the south.

    Amount of land to be used: 460Ha

    No. of farms affected: 109

    Sites of archaeological, architectural or cultural heritage significance: 168


  • #58
    NedNew2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭NedNew2


    Apparently the NRA are to meet on Tuesday to consider rebundling the New Ross and Enniscorthy bypasses as one contract again. This is in light of Peter Sweetmens failure in the High Court this week to stop the New Ross bypass.

    Which I think is good news. Having been stuck in both towns various times, in my opinion New Ross is a far worse bottleneck and desperately needs a bypass.

    Of course whether the bypass proposed is the optimum solution is an another debate altogether.


  • #59
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    They should re-bundle them, or else scrap Enniscorthy for the next 10 years and just build New Ross.


  • #60
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The N11 Enniscorthy tender may be pulled ( according to the NRA today) and the N25 New Ross Bypass is to be recoupled with it in a new tender to issue shortly. Or else the tender reply will be extended to synchronise with a New Ross tender.


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  • #61
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The N11 Enniscorthy tender may be pulled ( according to the NRA today) and the N25 New Ross Bypass is to be recoupled with it in a new tender to issue shortly. Or else the tender reply will be extended to synchronise with a New Ross tender.


    And what is your source?


  • #62
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    That makes perfect sense, might as well re-couple them while we have the chance.


  • #63
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    And what is your source?

    Ultimately the notice came from Hugh Creegan , Head of PPP Operations in the NRA and is not a secret or anything.


  • #64
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Ultimately the notice came from Hugh Creegan , Head of PPP Operations in the NRA and is not a secret or anything.


    I take it 'square pants' that you have some good contacts in the NRA or in fact actually work in the organisation ??


  • #65
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Actually a lot of sense would be made if Spongy was Hugh Creegan.


  • #66
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I have nothing whatsoever to do with the NRA or with any form of Civil Engineering :cool: The New Ross PPP is to issue shortly is the main story .

    Mind you the M18/M17 main PPP tender issued January 2010 and so far all we have a is a shortlist of 2 after 14 whole months of 'process'


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  • #67
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Original timeline for the M17/18

    OJEU Notice date – January 2009
    Dialogue Commencement Date – June 2009
    Receipt of Final Tender –May 2010
    Contract Close – October 2010
    Construction - Q1 2011


  • #68
    thedarkroom
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭thedarkroom


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I have nothing whatsoever to do with the NRA or with any form of Civil Engineering :cool: The New Ross PPP is to issue shortly is the main story .

    Mind you the M18/M17 main PPP tender issued January 2010 and so far all we have a is a shortlist of 2 after 14 whole months of 'process'

    You have an impressive knowledge of how this system works and finding the relevant information. What's your secret . . . or is it a secret?


  • #69
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    New Ross has officially been re-coupled with Enniscorthy and the original M11 tender has been cancelled as a result.

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR145808


  • #70
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Told Ye :D

    The next problem is whether the government cuts both the recoupled schemes as part of their review of PPPs.

    The next problem after that is whether they can reactivate the two schemes with money from the EIB which would cost less than a PPP would or indeed carry on with the tender and ask for a PPP price and a cash price both from the consortia.

    We shall see


  • #71
    Quadra
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Quadra


    This snippet from the Public Accounts committee, 22 April 2010:

    Second Roads PPP Programme
    There are four schemes currently planned in the National Roads Authority Second Roads PPP programme.

    Three of which are now in procurement, namely:

    1. N17/N18 Scheme (Gort to Tuam)
    Indicative financial close for this scheme is October 2010.

    2. N7/N11 Scheme (Arklow, Rathnew and Newlands Cross)
    Indicative financial close for this scheme is Q4 2010.

    3. M11/M25 Scheme (Gorey to Enniscorthy, New Ross Bypass)
    The scheme has recently launched.

    The fourth scheme the M20 (Limerick to Cork – Southern Section) is expected to launch over the next few months.

    The N11 route does looks seriously 'shovel ready'. A bungalow north of Jack White's cross (before the Barndarraig service station) was recently demolished, as was a two-story dwelling on the left-hand side at the start of the bends.

    To add to JD's point, you can see the simple - and ultimately tragic - reason for the urgency of this upgrade in the number of headstones, crosses and memorials at the side of this single carriageway stretch.


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  • #72
    123easy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭123easy


    Had a look at the M11 Enniscorthy PPP scheme, surely there are other parts of the country more deserving of a bypass than Ennisocrthy is of a motorway.


  • #73
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    100% definately, I'm against Enniscorthy starting AT THE MOMENT, while there are far more deserving projects floating around. As I see it, the reason it is getting done is because New Ross wasnt big enough to be a PPP in its own right so they tacked on the scheme that was geographically the closest, ie: Enniscorthy.

    A scheme of similar length for instance, that needs to be done far more urgently, is the N28 to Ringaskiddy. Thats been completely forgotten and despite lower traffic levels, is still needed badly.


  • #74
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The N11 corridor is seen as a sort of ersatz MIU due to the Rosslare freight traffic though, thats part of why the N11 bit of the Enniscorthy BP is motorway and goes all the way to Clogh.

    The scale of the scheme in general is huge though - is the N30 part of it DC also?


  • #75
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    http://www.wexfordcoco.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/M11GoreytoEnniscorthyScheme/
    The new Motorway will run from the Southern end of the Gorey Bypass at Clogh to Scurlocksbush at Oilgate and will incorporate the Enniscorthy Bypass. This section of the scheme will be 27 km and the scheme will also include a 4 km dual carriageway connecting the new motorway to the existing N11 at Scarawalsh and a further 8 km single carriageway link from Scarawalsh to the N30 at Clohass.


  • #76
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    jd wrote: »
    Scurlocksbush

    Sounds like a peculiar local mating ritual that :)

    Nice one getting 4km of dualler on the N30 and all. Like MYOB says the N11 is an Ersatz MIU since about the 1980's otherwise it would not be considered for Motorway at all. But let this section be an end to it :)


  • #77
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Sounds like a peculiar local mating ritual that :)

    Nice one getting 4km of dualler on the N30 and all. Like MYOB says the N11 is an Ersatz MIU since about the 1980's otherwise it would not be considered for Motorway at all. But let this section be an end to it :)

    Maybe an online (where possible) upgrade to D2AP to Rosslare :)


  • #78
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    MYOB wrote: »
    The N11 corridor is seen as a sort of ersatz MIU due to the Rosslare freight traffic though, thats part of why the N11 bit of the Enniscorthy BP is motorway and goes all the way to Clogh.

    The scale of the scheme in general is huge though - is the N30 part of it DC also?

    How much freight & passenger traffic is Rosslare getting these days anyway? particularly in comparison to the State's other ports located in or near urban areas? seems to me the idea of building & maintaining connections to Rosslare by Motorway & Rail is a product of 20 Century Shannon style thinking.


  • #79
    tw0nk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭tw0nk


    cant wait for N11 to be finished off, will knock 10-20 minutes off my journey every day, to those who are against the upgrade, the roads you are waiting for will eventually come, dublin - cork, dublin - galway, dublin - belfast, dublin - waterford, all finished or nearly finished with motorway.

    the amount of traffic throughout the summer months back and forth to wexford is huge, these road upgrades give huge time benefits to commuters, tourists and services (ambulance etc)


  • #80
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Interesting stats, perhaps this year with the ash cloud there will be a spike in passenger numbers but for the most part Rosslare seems to be stagnating in most areas over the past decade, will an enhanced motorway and rail service really reverse the ports long term decline?.

    As mentioned by Chris the N28 is surely more deserving of funds for an upgrade then parts of the N/M11.


  • #81
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Rosslare has slowly declined in importance over the past 20 years. Only 1000 vehicles a day used it (through) in 1999 and that is now 800 vehicles a day.

    A couple of 2+2 online passing stretches between Rosslare and Oilgate would suffice in my opinion.

    Anyway the Rosslare - Oilgate scheme is one of the 90+ schemes the greens have kyboshed in the October programme for government not that any Wexford FFer will admit that.


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  • #82
    runway16
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭runway16


    Another point to consider folks is that the N11 is part of E01 - These are undertakings to deliver these routes (right across europe) to DC or M'way standard, and Ireland also has to deliver on that promise. There are strategic reasons for the delivery of this, and they go beyond just national or local reasons,


  • #83
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Begob he is right :eek:

    We signed an International Treaty on this as far back as 1950 ( and some since) :eek:

    http://untreaty.un.org/unts/1_60000/3/6/00004285.pdf

    See list of signatories and jump to Annex 2 for a shufty. But as the road does not carry over 600 vehicles an hour....even whan the ferry arrives..we would appear compliant with the 1950 standard if there is good quaility S2 between Oilgate and Rosslare.

    The most recent standard is here , from 2008

    http://www.unece.org/trans/conventn/ECE-TRANS-SC1-384e.pdf

    The N11 ( E1) is an intermediate not a reference route.


  • #84
    runway16
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭runway16


    I'm on the board a week... and already making waves..... COOL!!! ;-)


  • #85
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Bump! Dedicated Enniscorthy Bypass thread created by moving posts from various M11 and threads.

    enniscorthybypass.jpg

    This is coupled in a PPP bundle with the N25 New Ross Bypass. From the NRA's second round PPP programme document (attached):
    The M11 Enniscorthy Bypass will commence at Frankfort via a proposed grade separated junction with the existing Gorey Bypass. The proposed route continues in a south westerly direction with further junctions at Ballydawnmore (connecting with the N80 link) and finishing with an at grade roundabout in Roperstown on the existing N11 just north of Oilgate village. The N80 link commences at the Ballydawnmore junction and takes a westerly direction crossing the Dublin to Rosslare rail line and the Slaney River at Ballynabarny before connecting to the existing N11/ N80 junction at Scarawalsh with an at grade roundabout. The N30 western link commences at the N11/ N80 junction at Scarwalsh and continues in a south westerly direction to the west of Enniscorthy Town. There is an at grade roundabaout at Milehouse on the existing R702 and the scheme finishes to the south with a further at grade roundabout at Jamestown.

    Scheme Features:
    • On the M11 Mainline there are 2 no grade separated junction and two at grade roundabouts;
    • The N80 Link has one at grade junction;
    • The N30 Link has two at grade roundabouts;
    • The main structural feature of this scheme is the crossing of the River Slaney combined with a crossing of the Dublin/ Rosslare rail line;
    • Two Railway Bridges – crossing the Dublin/ Rosslare rail line.


  • #86
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    This scheme is overkill for the amount of AADT on route. It doesnt justify motorway IMO.


  • #87
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    This scheme is overkill for the amount of AADT on route. It doesnt justify motorway IMO.

    There is a certain inequity that this route gets a motorway when no such provision is envisaged for the likes of the N3 south of Cavan or the N4 which have similar traffic levels. 2+2 would seem appropriate in both cases.


  • #88
    123easy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭123easy


    Ah but its a euro route so it is special


  • #89
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    123easy wrote: »
    Ah but its a euro route so it is special

    yep, the E01 - eventually we'll be able to drive all the way to the Algarve - I can't wait!

    127905.jpg

    (some form of bridge or tunnel may be required for the final section, or "E01 Gap" as it'll no doubt be known)


  • #90
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    http://www.enniscorthyecho.ie/news/story/?trs=mhidqlgbau&cat=news
    THE PROPOSED Enniscorthy by-pass, which was unveiled to the public three years ago and was due to commence in two months, will not start now until at least 2015, it was confirmed this week.

    What should have been the most expensive infrastructural project in the town’s history has become the latest casualty of the economic downturn.


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  • #91
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    This on e-tenders today: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN195839

    The NRA seems rather busy of late with plotting and planning.


  • #92
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Tremelo wrote: »
    This on e-tenders today: http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JAN195839

    The NRA seems rather busy of late with plotting and planning.

    Read the subtext in that
    A. M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy Project (including M11 Clogh to Enniscorthy, M11 Enniscorthy Bypass & Links from M11 to N30 and N80)
    B. N25 New Ross Bypass & 2nd River Crossing

    Were I a betting man I would punt on the A bit being decoupled from the B bit and the A bit being tendered out on a Build Only basis in late 2011....just a hunch mind. :)


  • #93
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Read the subtext in that



    Were I a betting man I would punt on the A bit being decoupled from the B bit and the A bit being tendered out on a Build Only basis in late 2011....just a hunch mind. :)

    You're usually a pessimist (realist??) Sponge, but in this case I think you're being over-optimistic. We're unlikely to see Enniscorthy before 2015.


  • #94
    sundula
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭sundula


    Any update on this ? I believe all the digging and testing stuff is done. I have an uncle whos is losing nearly 5 acres to the road proposed to go around Enniscorthy from Scarwalsh to Clohass and join the New Ross road. He was told that this part was happening but he hasnt got any thing about proceeding with the purchase officially. He did have an offer for the land but nothing in writing.

    Is this part of the bypass likely to proceed given that it is more straight forward than the bypass to join the N11 Wexford / Rosslare Road ?


  • #95
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    sundula wrote: »

    Is this part of the bypass likely to proceed given that it is more straight forward than the bypass to join the N11 Wexford / Rosslare Road ?
    It was always planned to happen before the Rosslare/Oilgate section, it doesn't make sense to have a national road going through the center of a town.


  • #96
    Jayuu
    Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    jd wrote: »
    It was always planned to happen before the Rosslare/Oilgate section, it doesn't make sense to have a national road going through the center of a town.

    Especially when the national route has to yield to local traffic.

    Edited to add
    I know technically it doesn't as both bridges in Enniscorthy are part of the N11 and its kind of like one large roundabout but the layout does cause significant delays for through traffic (southbound and northbound) at the expense of traffic that has originated in the town.


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  • #97
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,537 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    jd wrote: »
    It was always planned to happen before the Rosslare/Oilgate section, it doesn't make sense to have a national road going through the center of a town.

    I think he meant the N30 section rather than the N11 section of the Enniscorthy BP. They're nearly completely separate.


  • #98
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭jd


    Farmers aren't happy with value being put on land by the NRA-they aren't being offered Bubble-era amounts

    http://www.enniscorthyecho.ie/news/eyausneyau/

    LOCAL LANDOWNERS have been stunned at the low prices being offered for their land by the National Roads Authority, which is now acquiring land for the Enniscorthy bypass project.

    ..

    While the route for the motorway scheme was announced in 2001, landowners were not formally put on notice that their land was being purchased until October 2010 – when prices were at rock bottom.
    ..

    “A lot of people are angry that the route for this scheme was announced ten years ago but our land is being valued at 2010 prices – but if we were selling three of four years ago we would be getting multiples of the amounts were are now being offered.

    ..


  • #99
    invinciblePRSTV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    jd wrote: »
    Farmers aren't happy with value being put on land by the NRA-they aren't being offered Bubble-era amounts

    http://www.enniscorthyecho.ie/news/eyausneyau/

    Wouldn't you know it, it's a backwoodsman FG Cllr/farmer shouting the loudest. Someone needs to tell him to cop the feck on.


  • #100
    hamsterboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭hamsterboy


    Typical from Kavanagh.... pure greed as always


  • #101
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Big farmers vote FG , they should get busy acquiring land in the west where they won't lose any votes instead :D


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