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Pay more tax to bail out Public Servants?

135

Comments

  • #62
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    ascanbe wrote: »
    Hilarious.
    You have to pick out examples, who's position you then misrepresent, and are in no way representative anyway, and use this set up to attack public sector workers.
    Hasn't this been done ad nauseum?
    By the way, all the suppossed 'wealth creators' who have now lost their jobs aren't paying tax, at the moment, anyway, so what are you talking about?
    I'd imagine you're one of those people who were laughing at those dumb enough to stick with public sector jobs, when the 'wealth creators' were riding high and all but fellating themselves.
    Perhaps you were one of the 'wealth creators' or someone who CHOSE to work for them and perhaps, CHOSE to sign up for a mortgage and get yourself in debt that you now can't pay.
    But only the public sector deserves to be attacked; it's their fault, right?
    I suggest you take a course in basic logic.
    So you now attack people who happen to work for the public sector?
    If you have a legitimate point to make about how Ireland can get out of this mess, the make it.
    Ramp down the hysteria.
    Personally, i can't see a way, at this moment. You're beloved 'wealth creators', in combination with their lackeys in government, have made it all put impossible.


    Which Unions were walking in and out of Government buildings with massive pay increases every year? You talk about wealth creators now not wealth creating. No **** Sherlock they have been sacked. Which means less money for the public servant cohort. Can you, unlike the Unions, put 2 and 2 together? Less employed in the private sector means less for public sector. Half of them should be sacked. The remaining half a 40% pay cut on top of the cuts already. This will happen anyway when the IMF comes. May aswell do it now.


    BTW everyone attacking the OP is a public servant or has a relation public servant. I understand you don't like the truth. But you will just have to find out and take it.


  • #63
    dolliemix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭dolliemix


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Public Servants, ah those with secure jobs and pensions, they are not too happy atm with a mere downgrade of their "quality of life". Or so said a recent letter to the Irish Times by "Barry" who was moaning about his measly 53,000 a year and 300k mortgage. (he describes himeself as a "low to middle pay public worker" btw, 53,000!) Not a mention of course of the further 3,000 actual wealth creators added to the dole from the private sector. What is their "quality of life" like now I wonder? The mere fact this letter talked about "quality of life" had me fuming. "Quality of life"!?. Well thats what they are moaning about and treathening to strike over. Im left asking did I force him, as a taxpayer, to take out his unaffordable mortgage? Did I do something wrong? It's like the teacher who was attacking Brian Lenihan for the mere pension levy because she had a 600k mortgage.


    So I am contemplating this. Their Unions threathen us in the real world who create money with strikes (i.e everyone in the private sector) and they use the argument about "bailing out banks". Considering alot of Public Servants seem to have made stupid financial decisions themselves I want to ask


    Are you prepared to pay more tax to bail out public servants?

    How much do you earn? How much of your wages do you you contribute back to society?

    You've taken two dodgy examples of public servants.

    What exactly do you mean by the 'real world'? (The people who create money???!!! Apparently according to you. )

    Where is the money that you create???

    Do you believe that you are 'above' public servants morally - when you were 'creating' all this so called money, which you don't even have at the moment!!

    Public servants aren't there to create 'money'.

    But maybe you've been living in your 'creating money' life of greed for do long now that you've lost sight of the fact that people need basic services as well.

    No - schools do not 'create money' like you do
    No- hospitals do not 'create money' like you do
    No- Public services do not 'create money' like you do.


    Where, in life, did you go so wrong, that you would feel, that in order to properly contribute to society, and be a model citizen, you have to be able to 'create money'.

    Don't get me wrong 'creating money' is important. But there is another side to life as welll.............not everyone is as dynamic as you OP 'creating momey' and the rest of society and mere mortals need to be looked after too by public servants , whose main objective is not to 'create money'

    Thank God for that!


  • #64
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    CDfm wrote: »
    its years since i did any work on economics but i am an economist by training

    anyway i am sure you are familiar with the accounting practice of amortizing which breaks large payments into smaller installments over time or acturial assumptions.

    if the assumptions you use in your model are wrong then it doesnt work

    you do not need links to tell you the assumptions were wrong - common sense would tell you that

    clinging to the partnership or using that as justification is silly as its assumptions were wrong and to work it would have to allow decreases back to a base - as a mechanism it worked in a boom.

    it also was not accountable to parliment or its assumptions could not be checked. a magic roundabout,

    I would say increments in line with experience are fine. Obviously somebody with 10 years experience should usually earn more than one with 1 year.

    The performance part seems to be lacking in the PS.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #65
    ascanbe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Which Unions were walking in and out of Government buildings with massive pay increases every year? You talk about wealth creators now not wealth creating. No **** Sherlock they have been sacked. Which means less money for the public servant cohort. Can you, unlike the Unions, put 2 and 2 together? Less employed in the private sector means less for public sector. Half of them should be sacked. The remaining half a 40% pay cut on top of the cuts already. This will happen anyway when the IMF comes. May aswell do it now.


    BTW everyone attacking the OP is a public servant or has a relation public servant. I understand you don't like the truth. But you will just have to find out and take it.

    You're the OP. So you know the staus of everyone disagreeing with you? Wow, your knowledge knows no bounds.
    Anyway, if you want full disclosure; i am currently unemployed, having worked in the private sector.
    I have a parent and a sibling who work in the public sector.
    I do not agree with the stance the unions are currently taking; this country is in dire straits and i feel it is pointless, damaging and counter-productive to their interests.
    However, i understand the anger felt by many public sector workers and how those on the lower level of pay, are being pushed to the point where they may as well just give up their jobs and join the dole queue.
    Would that make you happy?
    Your initial post made no attempt to approach this in a way that would generate any rational debate; it was simply a vitriol fueled attack on those who have managed to keep their jobs in the public sector.
    If you wish to generate a debate about how these problems should be approached, then do so in a way that is conducive towards this.


  • #66
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Tigger wrote: »
    nobody is happy with a paycut


    i have takeen a 60% cut (stalk me if you want but where i work is immiterial)

    if i'm still paying tax i';m happy; now look inside work harder and lets productivity ourselves outa this

    You are paying less tax, nobody wants that. It's all great and saying you are more productive, you are paying less taxes.
    CDfm wrote: »
    now you are getting the seriousness of it

    its like the movie back to the future where we are being driven back to the 80s and no housing boom will bail us out

    the assumptions/expectations people are making assume such an event -it is gone

    Yep. Neither is 67% tax rates! DOH! I remember seeing my Dads payslips. People don't realise we are in this long term.
    darkman2 wrote: »

    BTW everyone attacking the OP is a public servant or has a relation public servant. I understand you don't like the truth. But you will just have to find out and take it.

    Hey OP, I have experience of a Guard as a Dad in the 80's, I was old enough to see his wages. I'm also old enough to see a 40% cut in wages so you got that wrong, Family Fortunes style.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • #67
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    dolliemix wrote: »

    Public servants aren't there to create 'money'.


    Don't get me wrong 'creating money' is important. But there is another side to life as welll.............not everyone is as dynamic as you OP 'creating momey' and the rest of society and mere mortals need to be looked after too by public servants , whose main objective is not to 'create money'

    Thank God for that!

    Sorry dolliemix but I cant understand your logic.

    A public servant draws down their salary from the public purse. Taxes.

    A private sector worker or self employed person does not.

    The argument here is do the private sector workers want to pay more to public servants who "earn more than we do" and the answer is no.

    There is not enough money in the kitty to do so so people say cuts For the win.


  • #68
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    CDfm wrote: »
    Sorry dolliemix but I cant understand your logic.

    A public servant draws down their salary from the public purse. Taxes.

    A private sector worker or self employed person does not.

    The argument here is do the private sector workers want to pay more to public servants who "earn more than we do" and the answer is no.

    There is not enough money in the kitty to do so so people say cuts For the win.

    It also isn't the public servants fault if the private sector fecked up, which we did, if we are going to generalise like the OP.

    Tax returns shouldn't be this low. The Private Sector fecked up. Let's tax them.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #69
    ascanbe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Which Unions were walking in and out of Government buildings with massive pay increases every year? You talk about wealth creators now not wealth creating. No **** Sherlock they have been sacked. Which means less money for the public servant cohort. Can you, unlike the Unions, put 2 and 2 together? Less employed in the private sector means less for public sector. Half of them should be sacked. The remaining half a 40% pay cut on top of the cuts already. This will happen anyway when the IMF comes. May aswell do it now.


    BTW everyone attacking the OP is a public servant or has a relation public servant. I understand you don't like the truth. But you will just have to find out and take it.

    Oh, on the 'wealth creators' you talked of.
    You're missing the point; they didn't create any wealth.
    Those smart enough, about 5 or so years ago, got out and certainly created a lot of wealth for themselves.
    All the other 'wealth creators' in the Irish economy didn't create any wealth; they created a fairytale that pushed themselves, many people in this country and, ultimately, the country itself into debt that we can but dream of escaping from.


  • #70
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    K-9 wrote: »
    It also isn't the public servants fault if the private sector fecked up, which we did, if we are going to generalise like the OP.

    Tax returns shouldn't be this low. The Private Sector fecked up. Let's tax them.

    no it isnt

    but the private sector doesnt exist to serve the public sector and the pain should be shared out

    if comparatively speaking the public sector get an unfair slice of the pie then trim it back
    ascanbe wrote: »
    Oh, on the 'wealth creators' you talked of.
    You're missing the point; they didn't create any wealth.
    Those smart enough, about 5 or so years ago, got out and certainly created a lot of wealth for themselves.
    All the other 'wealth creators' in the Irish economy didn't create any wealth; they created a fairytale that pushed themselves, many people in this country and, ultimately, the country itself into debt that we can but dream of escaping from.

    ok - and while they did not create wealth they created tax revenue used to fund massive public spending.

    tax receipts were unsustainable and are down

    it follows therefore that there is/should be a cooresponding decrease in public sector spending


  • #71
    ascanbe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    CDfm wrote: »
    no it isnt

    but the private sector doesnt exist to serve the public sector and the pain should be shared out

    if comparatively speaking the public sector get an unfair slice of the pie then trim it back



    ok - and while they did not create wealth they created tax revenue used to fund massive public spending.

    tax receipts were unsustainable and are down

    it follows therefore that there is/should be a cooresponding decrease in public sector spending

    I don't disagree; you're right.
    The reason i got involved with this was to challenge the OP's baseless attack on public sector workers.
    What needs to be done, regarding public finances and public sector cuts, is a different issue.
    I have relations who work in the public sector and i'm sick and tired of them being treated as though they have committed a crime by studying for, and qualifying for, a job they chose to take.
    What has happened in this country is not their fault.


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  • #72
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    ascanbe wrote: »
    What has happened in this country is not their fault.

    It is partly their fault. It was their Unions that made wages too high and made the country uncompetitive. NOT private sector or their unions. So they will pay the price. "Benchmarking" with no productivity comes home to roost. Alot of the public sector should be, and will be, sacked. The rest will take severe cuts. This is the punishment for greed. Public Unions were greedy and now the price has to be paid.


  • #73
    Stonypockets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭Stonypockets


    I've read half this post...

    Hi,

    I'm stonypockets... AND... I'm a civil servant.

    I pay the pension levy

    I pay the 2% levy

    I've taken a recent pay cut

    Finally, and this is the kicker ... I pay tax too ... any tax increases would be applicable to me too! :eek: *Shock* *Horror*

    I promise you I earn a lot less than 30,000 a year, and I work bloody hard, I do nights, I do weekends, and unfortunately due to understaffing I do a hell of a lot of overtime, because I cant say no when I'm asked. And no, I am not a guard...

    Also, I am not opposed to further pay cuts... so sue me if you must,
    The moral of this story is please, in future, do not make generalisations that all civil servants are lazy overpaid so and so's...

    EDIT: OP, why didnt you apply for a public sector job, if they have it so cushy?


  • #74
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    darkman2 wrote: »
    That will only result in bad things happening.

    "That will result in bad things happening"
    Its very easy to act a hard man over the internet.

    I was going to let this go, or PM you.

    But since you put this out in a public forum I'll reply.

    If you want to bring the bad to me here's my calendar for the coming year, apart from the foreign events I'll be in attendance in some capacity of other.

    If you have bad intentions I ain't that hard to find.


  • #75
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    K-9 wrote: »
    Oh and a reminder of what a well paid Public Servants pays on over 50k odd

    41% Tax

    8% PRSI

    2% Income Levy

    10% New Pension levy

    6% old Pension Levy


    Yep, 67% deductions, about 59/60% Net. Great incentive for overtime.

    My Dad used to give out about deductions like that in the 80's.

    This is misleading in the extreme and if you know anything about tax you know that. If I remember to post later I`ll post how much this guy actually has at the end of the week.


  • #76
    GeorgeBailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    bean na gaeilge wrote: »
    Any one who is complaining about being on 60k or that a year obviously has major priority issues....

    Sure a single person on 60k is on the pigs back. What about someone with a family to feed... or a drug habit. 60k ain't worth jack.
    Me on the other hand, myself and my wife earn sh!tloads so we're laughin.


  • #77
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    ascanbe wrote: »
    I don't disagree; you're right.
    The reason i got involved with this was to challenge the OP's baseless attack on public sector workers.
    What needs to be done, regarding public finances and public sector cuts, is a different issue.
    I have relations who work in the public sector and i'm sick and tired of them being treated as though they have committed a crime by studying for, and qualifying for, a job they chose to take.
    What has happened in this country is not their fault.

    forget about it then

    its a mindset of strikes and action to prevent cuts in pay

    senior public servants presided over and had input into the design and implementation of moneyspending schemes based on mad economic assumptions

    so the strike action etc is based on being treated like they were during the boom.

    so if i say benchgmark properlly against the private sector and realistically against european equivalent pay you have no problem with that.

    bearing in mind that irish wages were 70% of european average to allow us to be euroipean competitive you would have a big drop in salaries

    the partnership is a con let the Dail act


  • #78
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    CDfm wrote: »
    not to the same extent and are productivity profit based

    it would be very unusual for clerical/admin staff to be on equivalent increments that offer up to twice starting salary after 30 years.

    you would not get that
    Where are you getting this idea of increments from, any one I know gets over a ten year period. After that you moive on to LSI Long Service Increment, after two or three years; then that's it. I on the top of my pay scale and at the most IIRC the difference between point 1 and trhe top of the scale is about a 1/4 to 1/3.

    The whole point of increments is to try and keep experiernced people in the position they are working. My increments added about an extra 1000 to 1,500 a year to my salary, by the time it filtered down to me it work out about an extra 10-15e a week. I will get the LSI next year, now I'm faced with option of staying where I am, or leaving that position if I won't to earn more within my day job. There is a big difference between the service I supply to my clients and somebody just out of college, hence the difference in pay.


  • #79
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Odysseus wrote: »

    The whole point of increments is to try and keep experiernced people in the position they are working. My increments added about an extra 1000 to 1,500 a year to my salary, by the time it filtered down to me it work out about an extra 10-15e a week. I will get the LSI next year, now I'm faced with option of staying where I am, or leaving that position if I won't to earn more within my day job. There is a big difference between the service I supply to my clients and somebody just out of college, hence the difference in pay.

    Here is a link

    http://www.pseu.ie/html/pay.html

    The Civil Service pay system is complex and not straight forward.

    Even the expenses system is a joke

    The travel and subsistence rates are a racket.

    The services Civil servants supply are such that they are capable of being generic -they are either rights or not.

    There is a huge difference between civil service definitions of efficiency and private sector.

    Its like the difference between school and work.

    If you make a mistake in school the teacher tells you to do it again and in busines you loose money and looose enough you go broke.


  • #80
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    I saved no money during the Celtic Tiger and now i'm broke, so fook the public service workers


  • #81
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    CDfm wrote: »
    Here is a link

    http://www.pseu.ie/html/pay.html

    The Civil Service pay system is complex and not straight forward.

    Even the expenses system is a joke

    The travel and subsistence rates are a racket.

    The services Civil servants supply are such that they are capable of being generic -they are either rights or not.

    There is a huge difference between civil service definitions of efficiency and private sector.

    Its like the difference between school and work.

    If you make a mistake in school the teacher tells you to do it again and in busines you loose money and looose enough you go broke.

    Cheers for the link, looking at the first one there is sixteen years in the difference between the first point and last point resulting in a move from 29,820 to 47,321. Now I know little about admin, and I'm in the HSE so there are alot similarities, however, taking my position the is a significant difference between the quality of service I can provide and some one on the first point of the scale. Surely that should be acknowledged, would you not agree.

    You metioned benchmarking earlier, in my position benchmarking resulted in changes of work practice in order to show productivity levels, the result of this was I have less clinical time to work with people because I'm showing how many people I see, for how long, what I'm doing with them. It's now at the point where I am looking at blocking off one day a month, just to show my productivity, meaning one full day where I'm not seeing clients.

    As the travel, I commute by motor bike and move from clinic to clinic, after 5 years of trying to apply for travel, this was due to bike insurance companies and the HSE. I now get a whopping 38c per mile.

    I honestly don't know where people are coming from with there 50k+ being a massive salary. I could earn more in the private sector a lot of my mates do, I admit my salarly is ok I'm in the 50k+ bracket. However, for the service I provide and the qualifications I possess as well as my experience in the area it is just ok. How many more cuts do people want? I'm down 400e a month compared to this time last year.

    I'm luckly that I'm in position to take on extra work if I want, and I can make up for that short fall.


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  • #82
    bean na gaeilge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭bean na gaeilge


    CDfm wrote: »
    an irish teacher from the gaeltacht

    she will obviously get lots of grants and the pipe bit is probably new green technology

    In soviet russia house buy you ;)

    Irish teacher but not from the Gaeltacht, sorry to disappoint you all. :D- so no grants to be had. And its a saying....


  • #83
    Pot Noodle =
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    Just take the pain and move on


  • #84
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    theg81der wrote: »
    This is misleading in the extreme and if you know anything about tax you know that. If I remember to post later I`ll post how much this guy actually has at the end of the week.

    I specifically said over 50k but knock yourself out.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #85
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Cheers for the link, looking at the first one there is sixteen years in the difference between the first point and last point resulting in a move from 29,820 to 47,321. Now I know little about admin, and I'm in the HSE so there are alot similarities

    the hse payscales are a nightmare -
    You metioned benchmarking earlier, in my position benchmarking resulted in changes of work practice in order to show productivity levels, the result of this was I have less clinical time to work with people because I'm showing how many people I see, for how long, what I'm doing with them. It's now at the point where I am looking at blocking off one day a month, just to show my productivity, meaning one full day where I'm not seeing clients.

    if you were a service guy for a computer company you would log every repair or an accountant you would have a time sheet charging out.
    As the travel, I commute by motor bike and move from clinic to clinic, after 5 years of trying to apply for travel, this was due to bike insurance companies and the HSE. I now get a whopping 38c per mile.

    your choice to use a motorbike and lots of people traveling to work get nothing like that.
    I honestly don't know where people are coming from with there 50k+ being a massive salary.

    I'm luckly that I'm in position to take on extra work if I want, and I can make up for that short fall.

    a lot of people in the private sector make do with less.

    i was speaking to a friend of mine this morning who is borrowing money to take up a job in france

    the company he had worked for hadnt paid wages in 2 or 3 months

    can imagine a civil servant working like that in the hope of payment

    Now it is fine to take 1 job or sector as every agrees that health is needed etc.But its in the totality we cant afford the Public Service as they are.

    So where would you start making cuts. Well I would reduce pay for useless services like archaeologists etc.


  • #86
    USA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭USA


    The civil service/public sector employer (i.e. the country) has no money left. Therefore they have to get lower pay. It's irrelevant now whos fault that is.


  • #87
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    bean na gaeilge wrote: »
    Irish teacher but not from the Gaeltacht, sorry to disappoint you all. :D- so no grants to be had. And its a saying....

    OOOps didnt know that :rolleyes:
    theg81der wrote: »
    This is misleading in the extreme and if you know anything about tax you know that. If I remember to post later I`ll post how much this guy actually has at the end of the week.

    And how is that our problem -if he was an unemployed plumber it would not be our problem.
    K-9 wrote: »
    I specifically said over 50k but knock yourself out.

    A bit unfair - but IU agree with you that the pain needs to be shared and the public service should not be exempt.


  • #88
    bean na gaeilge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭bean na gaeilge


    CDfm wrote: »
    OOOps didnt know that :rolleyes:]


    Forgive you for that one I suppose:rolleyes:

    All this ranting and raving is a bit much. I am trying to be calm today so.... The reality is there are numerous people getting overpaid ridiculous amounts of money in the public sector (but not everyone;)) and it is annoying and its not fair, but lifes not fair. ... might take up philosophy.


  • #89
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    CDfm wrote: »
    A bit unfair - but IU agree with you that the pain needs to be shared and the public service should not be exempt.

    But if they are paying 41% tax, 8% PRSI, 10% New Pension levy, 6% old one and 2% Income levy on higher wages, surely they are?

    PRSI is halved over 75k odd, but the income levy doubles.

    How much deductions do people want them to make? 80%

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #90
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    bean na gaeilge wrote: »
    CDfm wrote: »
    OOOps didnt know that :rolleyes:]


    Forgive you for that one I suppose:rolleyes:

    All this ranting and raving is a bit much. I am trying to be calm today so.... The reality is there are numerous people getting overpaid ridiculous amounts of money in the public sector (but not everyone;)) and it is annoying and its not fair, but lifes not fair. ... might take up philosophy.

    forgiven:)

    check out the affordable housing schemes they are not pipes


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  • #91
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    K-9 wrote: »
    But if they are paying 41% tax, 8% PRSI, 10% New Pension levy, 6% old one and 2% Income levy on higher wages, surely they are?

    PRSI is halved over 75k odd, but the income levy doubles.

    How much deductions do people want them to make? 80%
    ]]

    OK they got benchmarking and generous pensions so its payback time.

    Because the pay and benefit system for the public service is so complex accross the board they are being taxed that way.

    We should not feel sorry for them as lots of them are institutionalised into an alternative reality.

    Just take the dectralisation scheme to reduce costs etc they didnt play ball.

    the 10% pension levy is like a voluntary pension contribution and about time. Thats not a tax -they should be allowed to opt out of the pension but its so generous no one would.


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