Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

jonsey · 04-02-2010 04:31PM

alpha 2 zulu wrote: »

One of our lecturers has mentioned that the TUI and WIT have come to some sort of an agreement today. The TUI has called a meeting for this evening for their members. If their previous votes are anything to go by their is a fair chance the dispute will be effectively over come tonight in my opinion.

Hopefully it will come to an end alright. It'd take a couple of days for the exam results to be processed I'm sure but at least we'd know when they were coming out.

alpha2zulu · 04-02-2010 04:33PM

jonsey wrote: »

Hopefully it will come to an end alright. It'd take a couple of days for the exam results to be processed I'm sure but at least we'd know when they were coming out.

I'm sure it could be up to 3 weeks before the official results but at least the TUI ban on unofficial results will be gone.

jonsey · 04-02-2010 04:43PM

alpha 2 zulu wrote: »

I'm sure it could be up to 3 weeks before the official results but at least the TUI ban on unofficial results will be gone.

I doubt it'd take that long tbh. The TUI don't have a ban on unofficial results - the college (management) do! The college have always had and always will have a ban on giving out unofficial results.

alpha2zulu · 04-02-2010 04:54PM

jonsey wrote: »

I doubt it'd take that long tbh. The TUI don't have a ban on unofficial results - the college (management) do! The college have always had and always will have a ban on giving out unofficial results.

But there is the practice of the unofficial results being unoffically available...;) Its even been going on this week from some lecturers despite the TUI only allowing 'general feedback' to students on the results.

jonsey · 04-02-2010 04:55PM

alpha 2 zulu wrote: »

But there is the practice of the unofficial results being unoffically available...;) Its even been going on this week from some lecturers despite the TUI only allowing 'general feedback' to students on the results.

Well it shouldn't have been going on but I take your point in that respect. However, not giving the results this time is a mangement directive afaik.

beegirl · 04-02-2010 05:02PM

alpha 2 zulu wrote: »

I'm sure it could be up to 3 weeks before the official results but at least the TUI ban on unofficial results will be gone.

Yes it probably would take a few weeks because as well as the lecturers submitting results, exam boards will have to be held and so on.

Clano · 04-02-2010 05:16PM

beegirl wrote: »

Yes it probably would take a few weeks because as well as the lecturers submitting results, exam boards will have to be held and so on.

We were told by head of engineering it would take about 2 and a half weeks

shapez · 04-02-2010 05:28PM

Clano wrote: »

We were told by head of engineering it would take about 2 and a half weeks

That's interesting as there is no Head of Engineering anymore. He's retired.

Are you sure it wasn't your Head of Dept.?

Clano · 04-02-2010 05:37PM

shapez wrote: »

That's interesting as there is no Head of Engineering anymore. He's retired. Are you sure it wasn't your Head of Dept.?

Think hes head of engineering technology actually,

Sully · 04-02-2010 06:36PM

seanyroche wrote: »

i cant be bothered to read these comments

Ill make it even easier for you so. Adios.

sparkling sea · 04-02-2010 07:08PM

Very few employers need and can allow for mitigating circumstances
in the current economic climate, there to busy trying to keep there businesses afloat, they don't need the hassle when there are some many people looking for a job. In reality they will pick someone else because its the easiest option.

And in what scenario would an employer require such urgent results for Christmas exams? [/I]

You would have to ask someone in this scenario, I think it was discussed a few pages back.

They would have every part to play as they would have more field experience than any 3rd or 4th year law student in WIT.[/QUOTE]

No they wouldn't legal. Industrial relations practice only allows for the parties in dispute to be involved in the dispute resolutions. The TUI and the WIT.
Further anyone who claims to have experience in this field is pulling your leg. There haven't really been any industrial disputes for years and it is only recently (past year or so that they have arisen). Anyones there have been have been dealt with by the unions and whether or not they know what they are doing is very subjective.

Again the SU would be as well to get their info from a legal student who is as likely and should have a full understanding of the issues.

thejanitor · 04-02-2010 07:35PM

One of our lecturers has mentioned that the TUI and WIT have come to some sort of an agreement today.

The exam results will not be long around the corner. Talks are going well between both parties and good news is expected next week.

As I said yesterday, talks are in process and we should expect good news soon on the matter.

As for:

No they wouldn't legal. Industrial relations practice only allows for the parties in dispute to be involved in the dispute resolutions. The TUI and the WIT.
Further anyone who claims to have experience in this field is pulling your leg. There haven't really been any industrial disputes for years and it is only recently (past year or so that they have arisen). Anyones there have been have been dealt with by the unions and whether or not they know what they are doing is very subjective.

There are plenty of experts out there that have mediated two or more groups in dispute. You seem to be under the impression that the current dispute is unlike any other. Its not, in fact its the exact same, its all about money.

What you are trying to say is that nobody else has any further experience than WIT 3rd year law students. Please engage your brain here for a moment. Most law students have never been inside a courtroom or attended official union meetings/labour court hearings. There are legal secretarys out there that have more field experience than some law students (no offence to any law student out there - just making a point). Same goes for any profession, engineers, accountants, lecturers etc.. College qualification is only 50% of your study, the other 50% is made up of experience, hence the person with the most relevant experience will most likely get the job en the end.

Law students dont work from a low salary to a high salary on graduation for no reason. Increases are based on performance/experience. You will see this when you graduate.

sparkling sea · 04-02-2010 07:46PM

Sully wrote: »

Would prefer the union asked a legal professional rather then a student.

You cant just start giving advise after a few years in college for god sake.

Don't know why you have such little faith there are always a couple of students in any class how can give every nuance needed on any given topic and its easy to find out who they are. They usually get at leat 70% in everything.

After a few years in college any student worth their salt should be able to give the information needed by the SU but if you'd perfer to pay to find out this information so be it.

sparkling sea · 04-02-2010 08:09PM

thejanitor wrote: »

As I said yesterday, talks are in process and we should expect good news soon on the matter.

As for:

There are plenty of experts out there that have mediated two or more groups in dispute. You seem to be under the impression that the current dispute is unlike any other. Its not, in fact its the exact same, its all about money.

What you are trying to say is that nobody else has any further experience than WIT 3rd year law students. Please engage your brain here for a moment. Most law students have never been inside a courtroom or attended official union meetings/labour court hearings. There are legal secretarys out there that have more field experience than some law students (no offence to any law student out there - just making a point). Same goes for any profession, engineers, accountants, lecturers etc.. College qualification is only 50% of your study, the other 50% is made up of experience, hence the person with the most relevant experience will most likely get the job en the end.

Law students dont work from a low salary to a high salary on graduation for no reason. Increases are based on performance/experience. You will see this when you graduate.

You presume too much again.
I studied law quite some time ago and I promise you that before the Celtic Tiger you needed to be good, during the boom you were just needed and that goes for accountants, engineers, etc.

The reason I did something else was because I was ill and needed something to do to stop me getting bored. Financially I was in a position to so. Fortunately I am still employed and will not be looking for employment and I know that I did well, I don't need anyone to clarify this for me

I hate to be this rude (its so immature but) maybe its time you engaged your brain a bit, industrial resolutions rarely take place in court, very few disputes every get to court to begin with, most resolutions happen in house, following specific in house procedures. Further there are many legal secretaries out there who could give much better legal advice then there bosses. It would be any idea to drop the attitude and learn to heed good advice, this and brown nosing is the best way to climb the ladder in any profession, even lecturing - just ask any of the lecturers.

Any chance you would humour me by letting me in on who and where these experts are in Ireland. I'm sure they'd like to know themselves.

I suppose you can bring a horse to water

Sully · 04-02-2010 08:48PM

Just to add before I give this topic another clean up (its painful, trust me. This has been a nightmare to mod, ye feckers

). One of the sabbatical officers has an honors degree in Legal Studies with 4 years work experience with a solicitor who also specialized in arbitration. I think going to undergraduates and graduates with no experience would be very foolish.

sparkling sea · 04-02-2010 09:05PM

Sully wrote: »

Just to add before I give this topic another clean up (its painful, trust me. This has been a nightmare to mod, ye feckers ). One of the sabbatical officers has an honors degree in Legal Studies with 4 years work experience with a solicitor who also specialized in arbitration. I think going to undergraduates and graduates with no experience would be very foolish.

Foolish in your opinion it may be, but it will be the same information that you get if you pay for it.

Arbitration by the way is not something the students will need, they are not employees.

I bid this thread farewell and will leave you guys to your surmizing.

thejanitor · 04-02-2010 09:12PM

sparkling sea wrote: »

You presume too much again.
I studied law quite some time ago and I promise you that before the Celtic Tiger you needed to be good, during the boom you were just needed and that goes for accountants, engineers, etc.

The reason I did something else was because I was ill and needed something to do to stop me getting bored. Financially I was in a position to so. Fortunately I am still employed and will not be looking for employment and I know that I did well, I don't need anyone to clarify this for me

I hate to be this rude (its so immature but) maybe its time you engaged your brain a bit, industrial resolutions rarely take place in court, very few disputes every get to court to begin with, most resolutions happen in house, following specific in house procedures. Further there are many legal secretaries out there who could give much better legal advice then there bosses. It would be any idea to drop the attitude and learn to heed good advice, this and brown nosing is the best way to climb the ladder in any profession, even lecturing - just ask any of the lecturers.

Any chance you would humour me by letting me in on who and where these experts are in Ireland. I'm sure they'd like to know themselves.

I suppose you can bring a horse to water

OH MY GOD ITS LIKE TALKING TO A PLANK OF WOOD!

Sully · 04-02-2010 09:13PM

sparkling sea wrote: »

Foolish in your opinion it may be, but it will be the same information that you get if you pay for it.

I very, very much doubt it.

Arbitration by the way is not something the students will need, they are not employees.

Its what this dispute has been needing, apart from a local agreed deal. So, it helps to know the inner workings from it.

I bid this thread farewell and will leave you guys to your surmizing.

Cheereo

Sully · 04-02-2010 09:20PM

Mod Note

Closing this topic while I go through it, clean up whatever needs cleaning and post a decent summary of events. The topic is moving at a very fast rate so we need a short while to sort it out before the next onslaught of comments.

Thanks for your patience folks.

Temp Closed

Sully · 04-02-2010 10:47PM

Mod Note
Topic re-opened. May I remind everybody of the new [url=]forum charter[/url] which everybody should have read by now. In particular the following point comes into play:-

Please don't:

- Attack any individual forum poster or WIT Staff Member (including lecturers and union members)

WITSU is a small enough body in terms of sabbatical officers (just the three) compared with various departments in WIT and other unions in WIT such as the TUI. Therefore, the relaxed approach towards attacking groups does not apply the same way here. Constructive and civil comments are welcome but if your just going to attack and abuse the WITSU sabbatical officers then action will be taken from the moderators.

As for the larger body that is WITSU - well, the relaxed approach will be taken here and the general charter use applies.

We felt the need to address this as it is becoming a common problem in this topic.

If you are acting out of what could be considered 'normal behaviour', don't be surprised if you get a holiday from the forum.

Thanks for your co-operation folks.

beegirl · 05-02-2010 10:03AM

There is good news folks! I'm sure you will probably hear this today anyway, but the dispute has been resolved at a meeting last night - so no more industrial action and lecturers will be submitting results ASAP.

By the way, the offer made by WIT was the EXACT same as the one TUI rejected a couple of weeks ago - the only difference is that WIT has now agreed to negotiate further on the issue and get back within the grievance procedure. People were willing to accept any offer that got things back into proper negotiations, and many expressed concern about what not accepting the offer (i.e. dragging things out further) would mean for students. So I hope that may put paid to the comments that it was all about the money and that lecturers didn't care about student welfare.

If these negotiations don't work out, now that the proper grievance procedure is being adhered to, the issue would be taken to the LRC - rather than resulting in any more industrial action. That might put some students' minds at ease, knowing that this debacle won't be reoccuring anytime soon :eek:

Sully · 05-02-2010 12:28PM

beegirl wrote: »

There is good news folks! I'm sure you will probably hear this today anyway, but the dispute has been resolved at a meeting last night - so no more industrial action and lecturers will be submitting results ASAP.

By the way, the offer made by WIT was the EXACT same as the one TUI rejected a couple of weeks ago - the only difference is that WIT has now agreed to negotiate further on the issue and get back within the grievance procedure. People were willing to accept any offer that got things back into proper negotiations, and many expressed concern about what not accepting the offer (i.e. dragging things out further) would mean for students. So I hope that may put paid to the comments that it was all about the money and that lecturers didn't care about student welfare.

If that was the case, why did ye not accept the deal before? :P

If these negotiations don't work out, now that the proper grievance procedure is being adhered to, the issue would be taken to the LRC - rather than resulting in any more industrial action. That might put some students' minds at ease, knowing that this debacle won't be reoccuring anytime soon :eek:

True that, if the TUI allow it. Just seems a flaw in the procedure that they decide when to go but fingers crossed it wont come to that

dlofnep · 05-02-2010 12:43PM

Sully wrote: »

If that was the case, why did ye not accept the deal before? :P

Because WIT did not follow protocol and did not adhere to the grievance procedure. It wasn't an issue about money, and I highlighted this about 10 pages back. It was the WIT's management's fault for not adhering to basic procedures.

beegirl · 05-02-2010 12:44PM

Sully wrote: »

If that was the case, why did ye not accept the deal before? :P

I just said, because the first time there was no negotiation - this time they have still cut the rate, but are willing to negotiate and see if they can come to an agreement. If they eventually agree on a higher rate (or if the LRC agrees it for them!) lecturers would get back the difference. I don't really give a monkeys though, and I would say I am the lowest paid person in the whole college lol! The whole thing was ridiculous :rolleyes:

beegirl · 05-02-2010 12:46PM

Sully wrote: »

True that, if the TUI allow it. Just seems a flaw in the procedure that they decide when to go but fingers crossed it wont come to that

I don't get what you mean by this part? The TUI would be the ones pushing for this to go to the LRC, if it doesn't get agreed soon...

Sully · 05-02-2010 12:52PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Because WIT did not follow protocol and did not adhere to the grievance procedure. It wasn't an issue about money, and I highlighted this about 10 pages back. It was the WIT's management's fault for not adhering to basic procedures.

beegirl wrote: »

I don't get what you mean by this part? The TUI would be the ones pushing for this to go to the LRC, if it doesn't get agreed soon...

I would have assumed the TUI could continue negotiating and getting full pay during the negotiating stages under the procedure, without the LRC assistance (as the TUI lodged the dispute, they need to call on the LRC).

Sully · 05-02-2010 12:53PM

jonsey wrote: »

When the mod of a forum makes comments that are so out of touch with the facts of a case then you know a thread is screwed.

So your telling me that is not how the grievance procedure actually works?

beegirl · 05-02-2010 12:56PM

Sully wrote: »

I would have assumed the TUI could continue negotiating and getting full pay during the negotiating stages under the procedure, without the LRC assistance (as the TUI lodged the dispute, they need to call on the LRC).

No, lecturers will be getting the 50% rate until such a time that a higher rate is agreed on (if it ever is!). That is the deal that was accepted so that we could end the industrial action. The whole point was to get back inside the grievance procedure so that TUI would be able to take this to the LRC, if it cannot be agreed on locally.

jonsey · 05-02-2010 12:57PM

Sully wrote: »

So your telling me that is not how the grievance procedure actually works?

I was referring to your earlier points on why the TUI didn't accept the deal before when there was no such deal before. Not a very clever comment to make. As for the grievance procedure, what is your point on that? Are you suggesting that the TUI should have dug their heels in and get full pay! Even if you were suggesting this as an option (not sure why you would) then it wouldn't work like that at all.

beegirl · 05-02-2010 01:00PM

---Quote (Originally by jonsey)---
When the mod of a forum makes comments that are so out of touch with the facts of a case then you know a thread is screwed.
---End Quote---

What happened to this post? Do any posts that you don't like just get deleted??? This isn't a forum it's a dictatorship :rolleyes:

Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

Comments