minimum wage

smurgen · 05-02-2010 01:10AM

Mark200 wrote: »

I don't think it's that simple, but do you not think that those with a higher education DO generally earn more? Because they do. And they deserve to. Obviously not all those with an education will always get paid more, you must be a right half wit if you did not understand my generalisation.

you only made the generalization now,you didn't with your previous comment.of course those with a higher education earn more,however just because you have a higher education doesn't necessarily mean you're going to contribute more to society.in my opinion there is a disparity between the amount of pay some people recieve and their overall contribution to the economy.lowering the minimum wage will only make this disparity more pronounced.

squod · 05-02-2010 01:28AM

A little off topic, sums up feelings of many workers in the state about the government's lack of morality when dealing with issues of wages.

It seems that the law of the jungle applied when the government

decided on who would bear the brunt of public sector pay cuts.

Notions of fairness and,heaven forfiend, 'morality' were

clearly scoffed at.

As a public sector worker, one of the unlucky ones without my

hands on the nations power switch or air traffic control panel.

I have had to swallow my medicine and take a twenty percent pay

cut for the course of the 'partial' financial emergency.

I now accept that the idea of worker solidarity is a fantasy. I

fully understand the 'tough luck' attitude of my fellow public

sector workers, who are immune to the reality of vital and

'nation-saving' pay cuts that are being semi applied....

The higher grade departmental secretaries and other senior

civil servants, who very politely asked for some relief with

regard to pay cuts, have had a very polite ''yes you can'' in

return.

........I propose that the former 'partners' in the government

and unions have a team chat with all those under their'

influence about the moral notion of getting your house in

order, taking your own advise and being fair.

Letters to the editor; Independent, Thursday, 4 February, 2010.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2nh13c2&s=6

K-9 · 05-02-2010 01:33AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

It wasn't that attitude that got us in the mess.

I believe in state run housing and homes should be sold at cost.

What got us in the mess was letting Contractors make 700% profit by building housing estates and apartment blocks with little or no infrastructure.

Who pays for it? The rich I suppose.

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 01:38AM

K-9 wrote: »

Who pays for it? The rich I suppose.

Pays for what?

Mark200 · 05-02-2010 01:48AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Pays for what?

I assume the state run housing and low cost homes...

JKM · 05-02-2010 01:49AM

davyjose wrote: »

I still don't agree. If McDonald's want people to "work" for them, i.e. give up their own time, and effort, to help McDonald's turn a profit, then said people to be reimbursed in a manner that allows them to live in a certain (but not particularly high) degree of comfort.

If McDonald's have a problem with that, then fcuk off and see how much money you make with no employees.

Seriously?!? Ever heard of the concept of supply and demand?

OutlawPete wrote: »

It wasn't that attitude that got us in the mess.

Uh, yes it was!!

OutlawPete wrote: »

I believe in state run housing and homes should be sold at cost.

Have a read of this. http://www.economy.com/dismal/blog/blog.asp?cid=113236

OutlawPete wrote: »

What got us in the mess was letting Contractors make 700% profit by building housing estates and apartment blocks with little or no infrastructure.

Again, supply and demand. The idiots who decided they needed a house so badly they paid outrageous prices for the privilege have a lot to answer for IMO.

K-9 · 05-02-2010 01:53AM

JKM wrote: »

Have a read of this. http://www.economy.com/dismal/blog/blog.asp?cid=113236

Again, supply and demand. The idiots who decided they needed a house so badly they paid outrageous prices for the privilege have a lot to answer for IMO.

That's a good piece. It would help if we had better tenancy laws here though.

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 01:56AM

Mark200 wrote: »

I assume the state run housing and low cost homes...

I said that they would be sold at cost.

Whatever they cost the state to build.

Why let contractors make money when we could have built our own homes and made sure they had an infrastructure in place.

Too late now anyway.

Mark200 · 05-02-2010 02:16AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I said that they would be sold at cost.

Whatever they cost the state to build.

Why let contractors make money when we could have built our own homes and made sure they had an infrastructure in place.

Too late now anyway.

Well state run housing implies that the state owns all housing, and people only 'rent' from the state. For example if the person living in a house moved, then the state would take over the house.

And I'd imagine even if houses were being sold at cost, they'd still be very expensive for anyone on minimum wage....

Also, the argument you used could be used for any part of the economy. Which is what communism is all about - eliminate profit because the state knows best. Well it doesn't. States are usually filled to the brim with bureaucracy and inefficiencies. Profit is incentive for people to do well. Competition between firms is incentive for their products to suit the customer.

DubTony · 05-02-2010 02:17AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I believe in state run housing and homes should be sold at cost.

Tried that already

Ballymun
Darndale

The Russians tried it as well

If you seriously believe that the state can be more efficient in building houses, you may need to look at costs associated with infrastructure in this country. LUAS brought in over time and over budget. Port Tunnel - over time and over budget. M50 - enough said.

Don't forget that the government actually helped to overheat property prices. It seems you're also proposing that the government should buy up all the land to build all the houses at cost. Are you aware that governments typically pay more for land than anyone else? The reason being that the guy making the purchase has no incentive to ensure a good price (unlike a property developer). This is just one reason why governments should stay the hell out of business.

BTW, looking at your other posts in this thread, I think you're living in the wrong country. You'd probably be very happy here

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 02:23AM

DubTony wrote: »

Tried that already

Ballymun
Darndale

Low quality council housing is not what I had in mind.

DubTony wrote: »

BTW, looking at your other posts in this thread, I think you're living in the wrong country. You'd probably be very happy here

Because I believe that our government shouldn't have let building contractors get away with what they did and that minimum wage shouldn't be lowered, that then means I should live in North Korea??

Interesting.

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 02:26AM

Mark200 wrote: »

Also, the argument you used could be used for any part of the economy. Which is what communism is all about -

Communism?? That's some leap.

Mark200 wrote: »

eliminate profit because the state knows best. Well it doesn't..

Well, we sold our national airline out so I'd agree there to a point but WE are the state - well, at least we should be.

Mark200 · 05-02-2010 02:29AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Communism?? That's some leap.

Well if profit is so bad in the housing sector, why is it not bad in other sectors?

OutlawPete wrote: »

Well, we sold our national airline out so I'd agree there to a point

And airline fares have since fallen

poms · 05-02-2010 02:31AM

I think its an absolute disgrace how some people here can say minimum wage is too high and should be lowered!

Clearly you are receiving a decent wage and are financially comfortable enough to look down on us getting the min wage. You try raising kids and putting food on table and pay bills etc with €8.65 p/h or worse unemployed and receiving the social..now thats a challenge.

It sickens me that you SLAVE for 40 hrs a week to try make some decent money at that rate, and if your hours are cut (like mine) to 14hrs a week then thats a f**kin nightmare.

Have some consideration for those less fortunate!! :mad:

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 02:32AM

Mark200 wrote: »

Well if profit is so bad in the housing sector, why is it not bad in other sectors?

"Profit" is not bad and I didn't say nor imply that it was.

Extortion is what I am complaining about and nothing was done to reign these guys in.

Mark200 wrote: »

And airline fares have since fallen

It is not that simple.

Do you think Aer Lingus workers are better off now than they were??

I can assure you they are not and we have more and more redundancy packages been offered each and every month.

05-02-2010 02:39AM

poms wrote: »

I think its an absolute disgrace how some people here can say minimum wage is too high and should be lowered!

Clearly you are receiving a decent wage and are financially comfortable enough to look down on us getting the min wage. You try raising kids and putting food on table and pay bills etc with €8.65 p/h or worse unemployed and receiving the social..now thats a challenge.

It sickens me that you SLAVE for 40 hrs a week to try make some decent money at that rate, and if your hours are cut (like mine) to 14hrs a week then thats a f**kin nightmare.

Have some consideration for those less fortunate!! :mad:

If you can't afford kids, don't fuking hav them. Minimum wage is handy to live off.. Everyone I know on it has a social life.

I hate this retarded mentality that society should look after people's children.. It's BS to have a baby with the full intention off the state paying for it. Stop having fuking children if you can't afford them.. I don't see why I should foot the bill for your children's nappys just because your unemployed and useless to the economy.

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 02:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can't afford kids, don't fuking hav them. Minimum wage is handy to live off.. Everyone I know on it has a social life..

Come on Ads.

Life isn't that simple and if someone has a child and goes to work they should be commended.

If Minimum Wage is lowered (not sure if you wish it to be) then life would be impossible.

Rented Mule · 05-02-2010 02:52AM

deadhead13 wrote: »

A relatively small number of workers in the economy are on the minimum, less than 1 in 20.

Can you post statistics to back up that claim ?

I do realise that there are just as many people just above the minimum as on the minimum, but I would be very surprised if that claim is accurate.

05-02-2010 02:52AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Come on Ads.

Life isn't that simple and if someone has a child and goes to work they should be commended.

If Minimum Wage is lowered (not sure if you wish it to be) then life would be impossible.

Life is simple, unless you have kids.. I have an easy life, I pay my rent and I spend my spare money socializing because I wont have kids till I'm 30.

I don't think minimum wage should be lowered.. I think everyone should start on 200euro a week and every six months, this figure should drop by 20euro. That would take care of the dole fiends pretty easily.

Rented Mule · 05-02-2010 02:57AM

Mark200 wrote: »

And airline fares have since fallen

Exactly which fares are you referring to ?

As someone who flies trans-Atlantic three to four times per year, I can assure you that they are much higher now than they were before.

This is due to the fuel surcharges, baggage fees and the devaluation of the dollar as much as anything else, but my point is still valid.

Rented Mule · 05-02-2010 03:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think minimum wage should be lowered.. I think everyone should start on 200euro a week and every six months, this figure should drop by 20euro. That would take care of the dole fiends pretty easily.

I think that the government should create/find work for people to do around the country. There are plenty of things that need to be done, much of which could happen in their own neighborhoods.

OutlawPete · 05-02-2010 03:05AM

Rented Mule wrote: »

I think that the government should create/find work for people to do around the country. There are plenty of things that need to be done, much of which could happen in their own neighborhoods.

I think that they should set up a system where people on the Dole have to be on beck and call for people with illnesses and disabilities.

Have them do Meals on Wheels, go to the shop etc etc.

Pride Fighter · 05-02-2010 03:06AM

Rented Mule wrote: »

No....McDonald's fcuks off and takes a few thousand jobs with them when they leave the country.

Loss of Jobs
Loss of Corportae tax
Loss of Vat

The employees are now making nothing, spending less and dependent on the government for their weekly dole.

How many thousands of outsourced positions have already left Ireland due to the higher costs to do business in the country ?

There is an incredible sense on entitlement with the younger population of Ireland at the moment that seems to have sprung up during the Tiger years. Times are tough at the moment, but they are going to get far worse in the upcoming years. Emmigration has helped absorb the overall shock, but it won't for very much longer.

There was an article that I read five or six years ago that said 70% of Irish people would be 'un-hireable' in the next 15 years if they didn't re-train themselves.

There is a ****storm on the horizon but people are too busy complaining about the smell on the breeze to realise they need to re-invent themselves.

It would be great if Mc Donalds left the country. The amount of money saved on healthcare due to people getting fat and having heart attacks from their trans-fat laden, nutritionally deficient crap would be a step in the right direction.

barney 20v · 05-02-2010 03:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can't afford kids, don't fuking hav them. Minimum wage is handy to live off.. Everyone I know on it has a social life.

I hate this retarded mentality that society should look after people's children.. It's BS to have a baby with the full intention off the state paying for it. Stop having fuking children if you can't afford them.. I don't see why I should foot the bill for your children's nappys just because your unemployed and useless to the economy.

AH.....so you advocate that people who are unemployed should not have children? Perhaps you would approve that people without degrees or earning less than 60 k a year should be banned from conceiving children? "Minimum wage is handy to live off..." Ignorance of the highest order old pip!
The parents of the future generations deserve the full support of this state..this "nation" is f##ked because of the attitudes of people such as you old bean! These children are the FUTURE of this nation.
With regards to the unemployed being "useless to the economy".... the unemployed person spends a much larger % of their income on the essentials than what you might describe as a" full Irish citizen"? i.e in employment and worthy of children?
I am educated, healthy, unemployed 11 months, a father to two girls, both born while i was in full time employment..what do you suggest i do with my kids? am i entitled to them according to you?
"ads by google"

05-02-2010 03:22AM

barney 20v wrote: »

I am educated, healthy, unemployed 11 months, a father to two girls, both born while i was in full time employment..what do you suggest i do with my kids? am i entitled to them according to you?
"ads by google"

As far as yourself and your children go, I'm sorry you lost your job. My argument is about the people who have children without any intention of working themselves..

USA · 05-02-2010 03:38AM

I wouldn't work for minimum wage.

Or would I ? Muhahahahahaha!!!!!

Rented Mule · 05-02-2010 03:45AM

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It would be great if Mc Donalds left the country. The amount of money saved on healthcare due to people getting fat and having heart attacks from their trans-fat laden, nutritionally deficient crap would be a step in the right direction.

As opposed to a Full Irish Breakfast ?

Johnnnybravo · 05-02-2010 03:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Life is simple, unless you have kids.. I have an easy life, I pay my rent and I spend my spare money socializing because I wont have kids till I'm 30. One of my best friends lives of the state because she has a kid.. It's a disgrace how easy she has it because a condom broke.

I don't think minimum wage should be lowered.. I think everyone should start on 200euro a week and every six months, this figure should drop by 20euro. That would take care of the dole fiends pretty easily.

Its worth the ban to tell you that you are one of the biggest fcukin idiots Ive come across in a while.

Also a judgmental little cnut.

Great you have yer life planned out :rolleyes:
Yer personality is quite the contraceptive so that should sort the kids end of things for you.

I love how you say your paying for peoples nappies.

lol you really havent a fckuin clue do you! Id say by the sound of ya you pay a tennar tax a week, ****in moron.

I wouldnt even bother debating with someone as stupid as yerself.

Dont bump yer head when ya fall off that high horse. Ya Tit!

Senna · 05-02-2010 03:56AM

The minimum wage is too high and will come down, catering industry employers have already been given the green light to pay less if the can prove inability to pay and this will spread to more sectors.

Most people look at big employers when talking about minimum wage, but 60% of the workforce are employed in small industries (less than 50 people), its these companies that have been haemorrhaging jobs and the wage bill is often the deciding factor.
My own employer came within days of closing down and from seeing the books myself, the wage bill was unsustainable (90% of staff on minimum wage). The missus lost her job last year, her employer just could not cover the cost of keeping enough staff to keep the business open, she has now opened her own business, but wouldn't make anywhere near minimum wage after her costs are paid.

At the very least the national minimum wage is unnecessary outside cities, while €8.60 may be ok for Dublin, in Donegal a 3 bed house (in the largest town) cost €100 a week to rent and if rent was that price in Dublin, the minimum wage would be €5 tomorrow.

Johnnnybravo · 05-02-2010 03:59AM

Senna wrote: »

The minimum wage is too high and will come down, catering industry employers have already been given the green light to pay less if the can prove inability to pay and this will spread to more sectors.

Most people look at big employers when talking about minimum wage, but 60% of the workforce are employed in small industries (less than 50 people), its these companies that have been haemorrhaging jobs and the wage bill is often the deciding factor.
My own employer came within days of closing down and from seeing the books myself, the wage bill was unsustainable (90% of staff on minimum wage). The missus lost her job last year, her employer just could not cover the cost of keeping enough staff to keep the business open, she has now opened her own business, but wouldn't make anywhere near minimum wage after her costs are paid.

At the very least the national minimum wage is unnecessary outside cities, while €8.60 may be ok for Dublin, in Donegal a 3 bed house (in the largest town) cost €100 a week to rent and if rent was that price in Dublin, the minimum wage would be €5 tomorrow.

Fcku off minimum wage for dublin but not country people??

You fckuin stupid or something??

Jesus christ, what is up with people posting here.
one rule for dublin and one for everybody else, FCKUIN RIDICULOUS:rolleyes:

Stupidest thing now I heard in a long while.
Hows about also we only put up tax in dublin?? Sounds fair, IT in dub to 25% and 45%, that sound good too?

ps is dublin the only city now too???

Great also that you know the price of rent everywhere isnt it??

Jesus chrsit get a clue would ya! Off back to www.generalisationsthatsuitme.com for yerself.

minimum wage

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