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The Six Nations General Banter Thread. *Read Mod Warning. Post no.5*

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    #542
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    SpAcEd OuT wrote: »
    For an over rated league their teams seems to have a far better record in the HC than we do. Add to that a World Cup to their national team's name.

    They'd bloody well want to. They were the first full time pro league coinciding nicely with the intro of the HC and have twice as many entrants as we do.


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    #543
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭Goose81


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Rubbish. His scrumaging has improved immeasureably since his first cap.

    Is that a joke or not,I cannot tell?
    His scrummaging would want to have improved afted 90 something caps.


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    #544
    Ciaran-Irl
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭Ciaran-Irl


    danthefan wrote: »
    As for Casey walking into the English squad, Kennedy can't make it in so I'd have my doubts over whether Casey would be picked.

    Yeah, but it is widely recognized that Kennedy isn't making the squad because Martin Johnson requires second row players to be intensely physical players that remind him of himself. Kennedy, while being an outstanding lineout operator, doesn't fit that bill. Casey does.

    I do take your point that this conversation is pointless in that he wouldn't be near the 22 and possibly not released for training squads however. I just think it is daft that MOD is ahead of him.

    Anyway, as people have mentioned, this is an old topic. We should talk of new things. Can anyone say if Declan Fitzpatrick is any good? He is behind an excellent player while not starting for Ulster, but I haven't seen enough of him to say if he is any good. Anyone know?


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    #545
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    dub_skav wrote: »
    The 2 in bold are fundamentals of the position of 2nd row. The 2nd one (scrum presence) being a very underrated quality.

    I think Casey is extremely unlucky not to be in the squad. But as others have said, it's a 44 man squad so most of those guys won't be anywhere near the match day squad anyway.
    I'll be more interested to see the 2nd row "A" pairing as that will show us the 4th choice 2nd row. That's me assuming Cullen will be on the bench of course

    I know but he's not better in the lineout than the other three options IMO and tbh our scrums will have issues that the second rows won't be able to fix even if they're complete scrummaging machines as our props aren't the best technically.

    I'd have him ahead of O'Driscoll personally but at best he's 4th choice. Plus as pointed out he doesn't get as much time in the set up due to his commitments with London Irish.


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    #546
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Goose81 wrote: »
    Is that a joke or not,I cannot tell?
    His scrummaging would want to have improved afted 90 something caps.

    To the point that he's very good at it. Saying he can only lift in the lineout is untrue.


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    #547
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭Goose81


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    To the point that he's very good at it. Saying he can only lift in the lineout is untrue.

    He is not good at it at all,how can you say that?
    He got raped against Aus,blame healy all you want but a better tighthead would not have allowed the scrum to be destabalised like that.


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    #548
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    To the point that he's very good at it. Saying he can only lift in the lineout is untrue.

    He's not very good at it. He's adequate. Sometimes.


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    #549
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    Just heard that the voice of rugby ,the legendary Bill McClaren passed away. Very sad to here that. RIP.


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    #550
    SpAcEd OuT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭SpAcEd OuT


    I reckon of that squad the final 30 should be

    Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
    Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
    Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
    Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
    Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
    Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
    Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
    Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
    Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
    Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
    Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
    John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)*
    John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
    Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
    Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*
    Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
    Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
    Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)
    Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
    Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*
    Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster)*
    Johne Murphy (Leicester)*
    Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
    Mick O’Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
    Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
    Sean O’Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
    Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
    Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
    Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
    Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Dan Touhy (Ballymena/Ulster)*
    David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
    Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)



    Leaving us with



    Props : John Hayes, Cian Healy, Tom Court, Marcus Horan, Mike Ross

    Hookers : Rory Best, Flannery, Cronin

    Second Row : O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Cullen

    Back row : Dave Wallace, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Jennings, McLaughlin, Ferris

    Scrum Half : Reddan, Boss

    Outhalf : O'Gara, Sexton

    Centres : D'arcy, O'Driscoll, Wallace, McFadden

    Wings : Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Horgan

    Full Back : Kearney



    I'm going to be slated for dropping O'Leary but I just don't feel on his current form that you can justify dropping either Reddan or Boss for him in my opinion.


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    #551
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    To the point that he's very good at it. Saying he can only lift in the lineout is untrue.

    He isnt a very good scrummagee. Thats wrong


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    #552
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    SpAcEd OuT wrote: »
    I reckon of that squad the final 30 should be

    Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
    Isaac Boss (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
    Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
    Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
    Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
    Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
    Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)
    Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
    Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
    Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
    Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
    John Fogarty (De La Salle Palmerston/Leinster)*
    John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
    Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
    Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)*
    Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
    Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)
    Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)
    Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
    Fergus McFadden (UCD/Leinster)*
    Kevin McLaughlin (UCD/Leinster)*
    Johne Murphy (Leicester)*
    Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
    Mick O’Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
    Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
    Sean O’Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
    Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
    Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
    Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
    Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Dan Touhy (Ballymena/Ulster)*
    David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
    Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
    Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)



    Leaving us with



    Props : John Hayes, Cian Healy, Tom Court, Marcus Horan, Mike Ross

    Hookers : Rory Best, Flannery, Cronin

    Second Row : O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Cullen

    Back row : Dave Wallace, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien, Jennings, McLaughlin, Ferris

    Scrum Half : Reddan, Boss

    Outhalf : O'Gara, Sexton

    Centres : D'arcy, O'Driscoll, Wallace, McFadden

    Wings : Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Horgan

    Full Back : Kearney



    I'm going to be slated for dropping O'Leary but I just don't feel on his current form that you can justify dropping either Reddan or Boss for him in my opinion.

    Can't say I diagree much with your 30 man squad but I would definitely have TOL in ahead of Boss. One or two great performances in recent matches? Is that enough to put him in ahead of TOL???? What about Henry ahead of MCLoughlin I think he has earned his chance and who else is a specialist number 8?


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    #553
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Rory Best is only there to keep him around I think. I doubt he's in consideration for any of the matches so John Fogarty will probably stay.


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    #554
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭Goose81


    Risteard wrote: »
    Rory Best is only there to keep him around I think. I doubt he's in consideration for any of the matches so John Fogarty will probably stay.

    Yep,I would say your right.
    No way he will feature,not good news for us because he is very good.Fogarty will do a job if required though.


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    #555
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Do you think Flannery will still be considered for Italy given that he won't have featured for Munster this weekend?

    For the sake of development, I would like to see Cronin start, whether Flannery is available or not.


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    #556
    chupacabra
    Registered Users Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Do you think Flannery will still be considered for Italy given that he won't have featured for Munster this weekend?

    For the sake of development, I would like to see Cronin start, whether Flannery is available or not.

    Seeing as our front row is likely to get hammered by italy I'm not sure giving Cronin his first start in that match would be a good idea


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    #557
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Do you think Flannery will still be considered for Italy given that he won't have featured for Munster this weekend?

    For the sake of development, I would like to see Cronin start, whether Flannery is available or not.

    I'd imagine Flannery will start, DK put himself and Hayes straight into the front row for the AIs so I reckon he'd be less likely to change for the 6N. I think not giving Cronin any meaningful time in the AIs was a huge mistake.


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    #558
    SpAcEd OuT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭SpAcEd OuT


    Bugnug wrote: »
    Can't say I diagree much with your 30 man squad but I would definitely have TOL in ahead of Boss. One or two great performances in recent matches? Is that enough to put him in ahead of TOL????

    Boss has had mostly average games with two magnificent performances but in my opinion O'Leary has been poor in almost every game he has played in. For me O'Leary is in no form to be considered right now.


    What about Henry ahead of MCLoughlin I think he has earned his chance and who else is a specialist number 8?

    I suppose my reasoning is that I would still have Wallace at 8 ahead Henry at 8 in the 6 nations should the unthinkable happen to Heaslip. Ferris has been quite injury prone lately and I think McLaughlin is the best alternative 6 we have.


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    #559
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Do you think Flannery will still be considered for Italy given that he won't have featured for Munster this weekend?

    For the sake of development, I would like to see Cronin start, whether Flannery is available or not.

    If its development we're talking I dont think starting Cronin against the Italian beast machine would be wise. I'd prefer to have Flannery starting if he's fit.


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    #560
    SpAcEd OuT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭SpAcEd OuT


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If its development we're talking I dont think starting Cronin against the Italian beast machine would be wise. I'd prefer to have Flannery starting if he's fit.

    I reckon if were winning comfortably I would love to see Kidney have a front row of

    1.Healy
    2.Cronin
    3.Court

    Play together against the Italians for the last 20 minutes. It would be very interesting to see how they hold up (especially Court whose primarily a loosehead)


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    #561
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Quick Question: 22 or 23 man squads?


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    #562
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    bleg wrote: »
    Quick Question: 22 or 23 man squads?

    22


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    #563
    sm.org
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭sm.org


    Goose81 wrote: »
    He is not good at it at all,how can you say that?
    He got raped against Aus,blame healy all you want but a better tighthead would not have allowed the scrum to be destabalised like that.


    Statement retracted for sake of forum tranquility


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    #564
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Hayes isn't a great scrummager. At the best of times he's solid. But I do disagree with the statement that 'all he can do is lift in the lineout.'

    Also the scrum isn't about one individual player. Both props and to an extent the second rows and hooker were at fault for the scrum in the AIs. Not just one player.


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    #565
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The most important thing Kidney has to do this season is find a replacement for Hayes. Hayes may make it to the RWC but he's already starting to show signs of aging. Asking him to play 80 mins now is already unfair on him, one and a half seasons from now its going to be ridiculous.

    Having Best in the squad is just the last step in terms of ridiculous squad announcements. I don't know why Kidney bothers tbh and I don't know why anyone bothers reading anything into them. Its an absurdly large squad with several nonsense players and there is no reason based on past experience to think that Kidney won't pick players not mentioned in this squad for future smaller squads over the 6N period. His squads mean absolutely bugger all.


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    #566
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sm.org wrote: »
    Statement retracted for sake of forum tranquility

    Thank goodness. One less person on the ignore list


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    #567
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    The most important thing Kidney has to do this season is find a replacement for Hayes. Hayes may make it to the RWC but he's already starting to show signs of aging. Asking him to play 80 mins now is already unfair on him, one and a half seasons from now its going to be ridiculous.

    I reckon we are going to see a period of transition. Less game time for Hayes as another tighthead is gradually phased in, to the point where Hayes will be covering as sub for the new guy.


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    #568
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    There is no TH to take over. Buckley is crap and Ross can scrummage but isn't getting any gametime. Court is playing LH. It's a disastrous situation to be in.

    The only Irish TH regularly playing other than Hayes is Andress at Quins.


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    #569
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    danthefan wrote: »
    There is no TH to take over. Buckley is crap and Ross can scrummage but isn't getting any gametime. Court is playing LH. It's a disastrous situation to be in.

    The only Irish TH regularly playing other than Hayes is Andress at Quins.

    Yeah I'd say Hayes will be our tighthead for the next while. Are Van Der Linde and Botha heading back to South Africa to try and push for selection next season? Might give Ross and Court a chance to push for a bench spot or starting spot.


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    #570
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well it has to happen and soon. We literally have no option but to play someone else.


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    #571
    sm.org
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭sm.org


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thank goodness. One less person on the ignore list

    It got to the stage during last years HC that I had so many people on the ignore list I was ignoring myself :o


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