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Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

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Comments

  • #452
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    1.)No kids in america are thought abstinance. Of course then they are going to struggle with something they are told is wrong and dirty.
    2.) You (am) are defining it, at least by your religious point of views.
    I for one know that killing somebody is wrong and would not do it.
    I would not kill somebody for not believing in my "god" as all life is sacred right and only "god" can choose who lives and dies.
    3.)Is it so hard for you to realise that couples whoi watch porn are sexually satisfied even though they watch porn?

    1. It should be put forward as an option amongst many.

    2. If you want to get into a discussion on the nature of Christian morals, go to the Christianity forum. I personally don't define what is moral or immoral.

    3. I'm not going to make judgements on other people. Other people aren't my problem. I have an moral opposition to pornography itself. I believe it to be wrong. I don't regard myself as perfect, but I aim to live for what is right.


  • #453
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    krudler wrote: »
    It also states that a woman cant wear mens clothing for fear of going to hell, but most of the crazier stuff is ignored by your average christian;)

    Well, I do realise that most Christians, including my wife, ignore most of the bizarre male-centric anti-sex desert-myth hangups of their religion these days, which is why I wanted to ask Jakkass an open question and hope to get an honest answer.

    P.


  • #454
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    krudler wrote: »
    Bull****, sex is sex, sometimes you just want a release, I've only ever had one one night stand and thats all it was for, hadnt been with anyone for a while, the oppurtunity came along, i went with it, I prefer being in a relationship but at the time all I wanted was sex, as did the girl I was with, but hey, at least i didnt use porn to masturbate to right;)
    yes at least you didn't.
    touching someones body brings feelings of closeness and having an orgasm with someone brings feelings of love (whether you like it or not) as biologically we have evolved to pair bond as any time we have sex with someone could result in a baby to ensure the best survival for this baby the parent should be together and raise the baby together.

    You can have sex with someone once off without feeling a major connection personally i wouldnt do this it is cold however if you are repeatedly having sex with the same women you will start to feel greater feelings for her.

    Everytime humans touch a connection is made and you can't have sex without touching. I am basing this on human science and evolution.


  • #455
    DancingDaisy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭DancingDaisy


    Something has just dawned on me... some of the issue seems to be the idea of treating somebody as a sexual object and such. However, it is very possibly that the women making these films, for the short while that they are creating it, want to be treated as such.

    Is it an issue if you treat somebody as they want to be treated? If they are aware of what they are doing then what's the problem?


  • #456
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    You can have sex with someone once off without feeling a major connection personally i wouldnt do this it is cold however if you are repeatedly having sex with the same women you will start to feel greater feelings for her.

    Have you ever had a one night stand? I'll take a stab and say no, so you dont know what you're talking about, again


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  • #457
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes at least you didn't.
    touching someones body brings feelings of closeness and having an orgasm with someone brings feelings of love (whether you like it or not) as biologically we have evolved to pair bond as any time we have sex with someone could result in a baby to ensure the best survival for this baby the parent should be together and raise the baby together.

    I guess that when gay and infertile couples have sex then, it isn't really sex according to you.

    P.


  • #458
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    oceanclub, I've already answered your question, if you want further information click here.

    Just to clarify though, I am discussing with you under the pretext of respect. I may disagree with you all on the nature of pornography, but if we aren't going to show respect to one another, we may as well finish this discussion.


  • #459
    Raze_them_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes at least you didn't.
    touching someones body brings feelings of closeness and having an orgasm with someone brings feelings of love (whether you like it or not) as biologically we have evolved to pair bond as any time we have sex with someone could result in a baby to ensure the best survival for this baby the parent should be together and raise the baby together.

    You can have sex with someone once off without feeling a major connection personally i wouldnt do this it is cold however if you are repeatedly having sex with the same women you will start to feel greater feelings for her.

    Everytime humans touch a connection is made and you can't have sex without touching. I am basing this on human science and evolution.
    Yopu are very very very wrong here. Feelings of love if you have sex? Wrong.
    Can't have sex with a person multiple times without getting greater feeling for them? false.
    Everytime humans touch a connection is made. Yes everytime someone hits me i can't help but think wow look at those eyes :rolleyes:
    Jakkass wrote: »
    1. It should be put forward as an option amongst many.

    2. If you want to get into a discussion on the nature of Christian morals, go to the Christianity forum. I personally don't define what is moral or immoral.

    3. I'm not going to make judgements on other people. Other people aren't my problem. I have an moral opposition to pornography itself. I believe it to be wrong. I don't regard myself as perfect, but I aim to live for what is right.
    Why should it be put forward? Safe sex would be much better.
    2. I have no wish to discuss the delusions of any religion.
    3. You are making judgements. You say porn is wrong therefore by association anyone who has anything to do with porn is wrong.


  • #460
    actuallylike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭actuallylike


    Novella wrote: »
    She signed the consent form. She walked away with the money in her pocket.
    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    This real woman decided to this as a job. I did not say here you better do this so I can get my rocks off.
    krudler wrote: »
    Its a job she took willingly, signed a consent form and got paid for

    Sweatshops pay people too and surely they have a choice, agree with them? And if you think pornstars get paid well then you're misinformed, yes the big stars, Jeremy, Jameson will get a big bite but vast majority get paid pittance.


  • #461
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Masturbation isn't the problem. It's lust, the sexual objectification, treating someone else as a sex object rather than a human being that I would regard as the issue..

    So do you think a person can masturbate _without_ sexual objectification?

    P.


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  • #462
    Novella
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes at least you didn't.
    touching someones body brings feelings of closeness and having an orgasm with someone brings feelings of love (whether you like it or not) as biologically we have evolved to pair bond as any time we have sex with someone could result in a baby to ensure the best survival for this baby the parent should be together and raise the baby together.

    You can have sex with someone once off without feeling a major connection personally i wouldnt do this it is cold however if you are repeatedly having sex with the same women you will start to feel greater feelings for her.

    Everytime humans touch a connection is made and you can't have sex without touching. I am basing this on human science and evolution.

    Having an orgasm does not bring feelings of love. I am sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish. Ok, if you have sex, or 'make love', within a loving relationship, sure that can happen but god, if you're just fcuking some guy/girl you met in a club that night, it's not, "Oh wow, I think I love him/her".

    You don't watch porn, you've never had a one night stand and you are basing all your opinions here on the first Google result you get so you don't have experience to stand on and you're not actually researching anything to make a valid point. That's my opinion. You are just hell bent on sticking to what you have decided in your own head.


  • #463
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    actuallylike wrote: »
    Sweatshops pay people too and surely they have a choice, agree with them? And if you think pornstars get paid well then you're misinformed, yes the big stars, Jeremy, Jameson will get a big bite but vast majority get paid pittance.

    They get paid a few thousand dollars to fcuk on camera and have it released to the wider world.

    Sounds fair to me, money in exchange for good and services.


  • #464
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    DancingDaisy wrote: »
    Fetish clubs and such have nothing to do with porn necessarily, other than the fact that some porn is based on certain fetishes. Women who are into fetish clubs and such are the same as everyone else. Father figure's really don't come into it, and certainly don't use their fetish to seek male approval. It's a completely separate issue.
    you misread my message i said i dont know anything about fetish clubs and was commenting on porn in general.
    krudler wrote: »
    Have you ever had a one night stand? I'll take a stab and say no, so you dont know what you're talking about, again
    this is a very personal Q but i will try to answer this....no but i have done other sexual things eg oral like a one night stand before i reformed.

    I felt cold and didn't like it and i am not talking phyisically, i can get pleasure from a guy orally but would rather have sexual relationships with someone i love and care about and trust this is true intimacy and pleasure.

    I think i do know what i am talking about as i have done sexual things (not full intercourse) with numerous men and didn't enjoy it.

    As i would start feeling like i really liked a guy that i barely knew and get upset when i never heard from him again. Why did i do it then? i was drunk 90% and also very naive that if a guy and me got intimate he must care for me and go out with me. I was 16-18 at the time and lived quite a sheltered live and wish i hadn't been so naive.


  • #465
    DancingDaisy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭DancingDaisy


    actuallylike wrote: »
    Sweatshops pay people too and surely they have a choice, agree with them? And if you think pornstars get paid well then you're misinformed, yes the big stars, Jeremy, Jameson will get a big bite but vast majority get paid pittance.

    I don't think sweatshops can really compare. If we ignore the illegal sex trade for a second, most pornstar's aren't in countries where their human rights are being denied, and they are working in an industry that they can leave. People who work in sweatshops may have a choice.... generally between working in the sweatshop or starving to death etc. I doubt that porn star's are in quite the same position.

    I can't say for certain seeing as I'm not one, but many of them have possibly pursued this as a career.


  • #466
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's a typical criticism to a view that challenges or disagrees with the behaviour of another.

    Eh, no, it's just a narrow definition on the scale of what is okay with regards to sex and sexuality. If you put swingers at one end, conservatives would be at the other.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's not about evangelism. XXXChurch actually is there to offer people who feel that they have a problem with pornography particularly Christians who are struggling with lust, and many people do, a chance to live a life free from pornography. I support them 100% in this endeavour, partly because I believe that pornography is harmful, and partly because I believe that many people do struggle with this irrespective of what you and others may think of it.

    Promotion is evangelism. If people have issues with pornography then that's for them to sort out with whomever they want. The minute you start giving some Christians struggling not have the odd **** as a good reason to think of pornography as harmful, then it all becomes a bit laughable.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    If one person profoundly affects the other party in the marriage, then what I would say is that it is profoundly immoral to engage with it without consulting your partner. I think it's profoundly immoral anyway, but this is where it gets to be the most problematic.

    Again, what I find profoundly immoral and what you find profoundly immoral is going to be poles apart - each married couple has the right to decide what works for them or they are not comfortable with.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    We can make decisions alright, but if those decisions prove to be problematic, there is absolutely nothing wrong with XXXChurch offering help.

    Offering help is one thing, declaring pornography to be morally reprehensible and the root cause of all things evil is another.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Another overly defensive argument. It's an ad-hominem fallacy too!

    I find it terrifying that people who promote one partner for life and say no to pornography consider themselves to be such experts on either that they can tell me what I can or can't enjoy & why, that's no fallacy.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Many people are in marriages without having to have porn as the third partner if you will.

    Are they? How do you know? And what does that have to do with anything anyway? Surely that's their CHOICE.


  • #467
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    OK folks good debate but lets keep things civil on both sides of the fence.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #468
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    just to lighten the mood a bit ...this is meant slightly tongue in cheek:p.....why don't we decided that sex is just an itch that need to be scratched..another thing to consume in our consumerist society...why bother with the idea that sex is beautiful, sensual, erotic, a gift ...


  • #469
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    Why should it be put forward? Safe sex would be much better.
    2. I have no wish to discuss the delusions of any religion.
    3. You are making judgements. You say porn is wrong therefore by association anyone who has anything to do with porn is wrong.

    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society. It's also the only one foolproof way of avoiding STD's and avoiding pregnancy. At least if both parties wait until marriage, there is a common expectation that sex is something special, and something that is worth waiting for. That's my opinion anyway.

    2. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine, but I should really redirect you to the correct location. You have to understand that I am just a person like you, I just choose to believe and to be guided by my God.

    3. I don't see how I am. I oppose pornography, but I am not criticising anyone's character here. Surely it is my choice to oppose pornography, or have whatever feelings about it that I have?

    I always wish to have discussion with respect. It's unfortunate that it is always a subject that people get overly defensive about. I'd love to have a good discussion about it.


  • #470
    Novella
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    serenacat wrote: »
    you misread my message i said i dont know anything about fetish clubs and was commenting on porn in general.

    this is a very personal Q but i will try to answer this....no but i have done other sexual things eg oral like a one night stand before i reformed.

    I felt cold and didn't like it and i am not talking phyisically, i can get pleasure from a guy orally but would rather have sexual relationships with someone i love and care about and trust this is true intimacy and pleasure.

    I think i do know what i am talking about as i have done sexual things (not full intercourse) with numerous men and didn't enjoy it.

    As i would start feeling like i really liked a guy that i barely knew and get upset when i never heard from him again. Why did i do it then? i was drunk 90% and also very naive that if a guy and me got intimate he must care for me and go out with me. I was 16-18 at the time and lived quite a sheltered live and wish i hadn't been so naive.

    I've had sex with guys and then realised I was starting to like them blah blah blah. This has nothing to do with porn. It's just a problem with separating emotions from physical acts. There has been a whole thread on it already.


  • #471
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    Novella wrote: »
    Having an orgasm does not bring feelings of love. I am sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish. Ok, if you have sex, or 'make love', within a loving relationship, sure that can happen but god, if you're just fcuking some guy/girl you met in a club that night, it's not, "Oh wow, I think I love him/her".

    You don't watch porn, you've never had a one night stand and you are basing all your opinions here on the first Google result you get so you don't have experience to stand on and you're not actually researching anything to make a valid point. That's my opinion. You are just hell bent on sticking to what you have decided in your own head.

    i have watched pleanty of porn to know ok.


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  • #472
    Raze_them_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    actuallylike wrote: »
    Sweatshops pay people too and surely they have a choice, agree with them? And if you think pornstars get paid well then you're misinformed, yes the big stars, Jeremy, Jameson will get a big bite but vast majority get paid pittance.
    Are you seriously comparing the porn industry to sweat shops. I now disregard your opinion.
    serenacat wrote: »
    you misread my message i said i dont know anything about fetish clubs and was commenting on porn in general.

    this is a very personal Q but i will try to answer this....no but i have done other sexual things eg oral like a one night stand before i reformed.

    I felt cold and didn't like it and i am not talking phyisically, i can get pleasure from a guy orally but would rather have sexual relationships with someone i love and care about and trust this is true intimacy and pleasure.

    I think i do know what i am talking about as i have done sexual things (not full intercourse) with numerous men and didn't enjoy it.

    As i would start feeling like i really liked a guy that i barely knew and get upset when i never heard from him again. Why did i do it then? i was drunk 90% and also very naive that if a guy and me got intimate he must care for me and go out with me. I was 16-18 at the time and lived quite a sheltered live and wish i hadn't been so naive.
    Exactly, you were naive. I know that women can just want sex from me and women know the same. I don't see that as a problem. Like we said to each their own.


  • #473
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    serenacat wrote: »
    i have watched pleanty of porn to know ok.

    To know what?


  • #474
    Raze_them_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Jakkass wrote: »
    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society. It's also the only one foolproof way of avoiding STD's and avoiding pregnancy. At least if both parties wait until marriage, there is a common expectation that sex is something special, and something that is worth waiting for. That's my opinion anyway.

    2. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine, but I should really redirect you to the correct location. You have to understand that I am just a person like you, I just choose to believe and to be guided by my God.

    3. I don't see how I am. I oppose pornography, but I am not criticising anyone's character here. Surely it is my choice to oppose pornography, or have whatever feelings about it that I have?

    I always wish to have discussion with respect. It's unfortunate that it is always a subject that people get overly defensive about. I'd love to have a good discussion about it.
    You don't think std's can be caught outside of sex? Plenty of people have caght hiv and aids outside of sexual intercourse.
    You oppose pornography, which means you oppose the poeple whoo do it. Many people support families from it, give to charities and even support politicians.


  • #475
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Eh, no, it's just a narrow definition on the scale of what is okay with regards to sex and sexuality. If you put swingers at one end, conservatives would be at the other.

    If narrow means doing the right thing, call me the most narrow guy in town.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Promotion is evangelism. If people have issues with pornography then that's for them to sort out with whomever they want. The minute you start giving some Christians struggling not have the odd **** as a good reason to think of pornography as harmful, then it all becomes a bit laughable.

    Providing help to people who have problems with pornography is hardly wrong. I support Craig Gross' ministry because it helps people who were formerly dependent on pornography to reclaim marriages that were in difficulty, and to live freely of it. Many people are thankful of what XXXChurch has done worldwide, and I think that's to be praised. What's so wrong with this?

    Mind you, I think they like I, really would be indifferent as to whether or not you find it laughable. Laugh all you want, but if this helping people, I cannot but praise it. Their presence at porn shows is also a huge plus, it gets people to think twice about it and their situation, and it is great that the organisers of porn shows welcome them.

    Do you genuinely believe that nobody has a problem with pornography?
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Again, what I find profoundly immoral and what you find profoundly immoral is going to be poles apart - each married couple has the right to decide what works for them or they are not comfortable with.

    It doesn't mean that both views are equally valid however. I will be supporting the view that pornography is harmful, because this is what I perceive from reality.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Offering help is one thing, declaring pornography to be morally reprehensible and the root cause of all things evil is another.

    Who has claimed that it is the root cause of all things evil?
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    I find it terrifying that people who promote one partner for life and say no to pornography consider themselves to be such experts on either that they can tell me what I can or can't enjoy & why, that's no fallacy.

    I don't consider myself an expert. I'm just a guy with an opinion, and I have every right in a free society to openly oppose pornography.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Are they? How do you know? And what does that have to do with anything anyway? Surely that's their CHOICE.

    People are free to come up with their own conclusions. It doesn't mean that their own conclusions are right however.

    This subject is one that unfortunately gets far too heated. It's also impossible to argue that pornography is wrong with a moral relativist.


  • #476
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    Novella wrote: »
    I've had sex with guys and then realised I was starting to like them blah blah blah. This has nothing to do with porn. It's just a problem with separating emotions from physical acts. There has been a whole thread on it already.

    i was responding to a question, your response is plain rude.


  • #477
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Jakkass wrote: »
    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society. It's also the only one foolproof way of avoiding STD's and avoiding pregnancy.

    Marriage is a foolproof way of avoiding pregnancy? Sorry, no idea what you meant there.

    And the idea that no-one married has caught an STD is bunkum.

    P.


  • #478
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    minidazzler wrote: »
    To know what?

    what it is about


  • #479
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society. It's also the only one foolproof way of avoiding STD's and avoiding pregnancy. At least if both parties wait until marriage, there is a common expectation that sex is something special, and something that is worth waiting for. That's my opinion anyway.

    Well what if you got married to someone that was terrible in bed and didnt satisfy you sexually? and werent going to get any better? you dont buy a car without taking it for a test drive first :D

    You can get herpes and warts from other contact than sexual, so that rules out the "no std's" argument

    Teaching kids that sex is only for married people is the reason this country was so backwards to sex for so long, it was ILLEGAL to sell condoms in this country in 1990, how laughable is that? Luckily the church's influence is becoming less and less apparent in our society today in these issues


  • #480
    DancingDaisy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭DancingDaisy


    serenacat wrote: »
    what it is about

    I didn't think the content of porn was where your issue lay. I thought it was the concept of it. The idea of watching it. What's so very wrong about the content?


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  • #481
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Jakkass wrote: »
    1. I think there are advantages in waiting until marriage, and I think that this should be at least discussed in school considering that it is still a major force of thought in our society. It's also the only one foolproof way of avoiding STD's and avoiding pregnancy. At least if both parties wait until marriage, there is a common expectation that sex is something special, and something that is worth waiting for. That's my opinion anyway. .

    And then two people realise they aren't sexually compatible and the relationship suffers because they built it up so much in their heads and it was a let down.

    But this thread is about porn.

    IMO, porn is good for lots of reasons and bad for few.

    It gives people good idea's to try, it keeps relationships from going stale, lights out missionary in the dark just doesn't cut if for me I am afraid.

    The bad, some women might regret doing it later in life, some might feel they were taken advantage of. They are 18, old enough to make an adult decision and stick with it and it's consequences.

    It is the minority of women who will regret it I think, and very few men will. No need to ban porn because some people don't like it, luckily, it's not made for those people! :)


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