Dublin Bus route planner?

angel01 · 16-12-2009 10:31AM

Paulj wrote: »

Can we expect any more orbital routes such as the one from tallaght to dun laoghaire?

Lol surely by now, Dun Laoghaire have bloody enough routes!!:eek:

Paulj · 16-12-2009 10:41AM

angel01 wrote: »

Lol surely by now, Dun Laoghaire have bloody enough routes!!:eek:

I'm not suggesting Dun Laoghaire needs more routes, i'm suggesting that the city needs more orbital routes. Currently most routes must go through the city centre.

KC61 · 16-12-2009 10:46AM

In short I don't know - but I imagine that it would be something that would be looked at.

Orbital routes are notoriously difficult to plan as:
1) Individual passenger journeys tend to rarely be the same, unlike radial routes where people tend to be travelling to/from places along the corridor
2) They need to pass through several areas where they will pick up/set down decent loads en route in order to be economically viable

In other words, direct point-to-point orbital routes do not tend to be very successful as loadings are poor. However routes such as the 75 have reasonably strong loadings all along the route as they service a variety of locations that will deliver passengers in reasonable numbers.

markpb · 16-12-2009 10:49AM

Another problem is that most non-arterial roads in Dublin are relatively narrow so they suffer badly from congestion and there is no space for bus lanes. This makes the bus routes unreliable and useless (103 anyone?)

Cool Mo D · 16-12-2009 11:01AM

KC61 wrote: »

In short I don't know - but I imagine that it would be something that would be looked at.

Orbital routes are notoriously difficult to plan as:
1) Individual passenger journeys tend to rarely be the same, unlike radial routes where people tend to be travelling to/from places along the corridor
2) They need to pass through several areas where they will pick up/set down decent loads en route in order to be economically viable

In other words, direct point-to-point orbital routes do not tend to be very successful as loadings are poor. However routes such as the 75 have reasonably strong loadings all along the route as they service a variety of locations that will deliver passengers in reasonable numbers.

Maybe some smart alterations to current orbital routes? Like trying to have orbital routes stop by a DART or Luas station wherever possible would help there numbers - for example the 17 goes from Blackrock station to Rialto, but it would be way more useful if it went from Blackrock station, to Rathfarnham, as it does presently, and then head out to the Red Cow Luas stop instead.

No-one likes making changes, especially on Dublin's buses, as they are so infrequent and slow, and orbital routes are going to be used by passengers wanting to change along their route by their nature, so they should run by as many high-frequency routes as possible to help this.

Orbital routes like Blanchardstown to Swords, via the Airport, starting at Clonsilla station and ending at Malahide DART, or Tallaght to Leixlip via Lucan, hitting the Luas, Kildare line and Maynooth line could work, based on a dual function of suburb-suburb journeys, and suburb to train/good bus connection journeys.

markpb · 16-12-2009 11:10AM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Orbital routes like Blanchardstown to Swords, via the Airport

I agree with everything you said but you know this isn't a runner, UrBus share part of that route so DB wouldn't get a look in.

I live on the 17a route (Finglas - Ballymun - Coolock - Kilbarrack - HJ&D Dart) and it's *exactly* what an orbital service should be. It doesn't meander into housing estates, it follows a straight line from suburb to suburb. It's reasonably high frequency: 5-6 bph during morning rush hour and 4 bph in the evening rush hour. It serves medium-high density areas, a large industrial estate, two shopping centres, connects with buses on four major arterial routes (N2, Ballymun, N1 and Malahide road) including the airport buses and it terminates close to (but not in for stupid reasons) a Dart station.

Recent work by DCC has removed almost all the congestion problems so it's very reliable most of the time. The only downside is the timetable reduces to 2 bph outside of peak hours which makes it close to useless then.

Paulj · 16-12-2009 11:23AM

markpb wrote: »

I agree with everything you said but you know this isn't a runner, UrBus share part of that route so DB wouldn't get a look in.

I live on the 17a route (Finglas - Ballymun - Coolock - Kilbarrack - HJ&D Dart) and it's *exactly* what an orbital service should be. It doesn't meander into housing estates, it follows a straight line from suburb to suburb. It's reasonably high frequency: 5-6 bph during morning rush hour and 4 bph in the evening rush hour. It serves medium-high density areas, a large industrial estate, two shopping centres, connects with buses on four major arterial routes (N2, Ballymun, N1 and Malahide road) including the airport buses and it terminates close to (but not in for stupid reasons) a Dart station.

Recent work by DCC has removed almost all the congestion problems so it's very reliable most of the time. The only downside is the timetable reduces to 2 bph outside of peak hours which makes it close to useless then.

This is what i'd like to see. DB identifying viable routes that would have enough passenger numbers to warrent a regular service. Even with 2 buses per hour the main problem is not know when its coming. When/if they introduce the GPS tracking and also bus stops with estimated times at each stop it might make these routes more popular.

KC61 · 16-12-2009 12:29PM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Maybe some smart alterations to current orbital routes? Like trying to have orbital routes stop by a DART or Luas station wherever possible would help there numbers - for example the 17 goes from Blackrock station to Rialto, but it would be way more useful if it went from Blackrock station, to Rathfarnham, as it does presently, and then head out to the Red Cow Luas stop instead.

No-one likes making changes, especially on Dublin's buses, as they are so infrequent and slow, and orbital routes are going to be used by passengers wanting to change along their route by their nature, so they should run by as many high-frequency routes as possible to help this.

Orbital routes like Blanchardstown to Swords, via the Airport, starting at Clonsilla station and ending at Malahide DART, or Tallaght to Leixlip via Lucan, hitting the Luas, Kildare line and Maynooth line could work, based on a dual function of suburb-suburb journeys, and suburb to train/good bus connection journeys.

So what do you do with the half-full bus loads of people that I see heading east every morning on the 17 as it arrives into Terenure? Are you saying that they should not have a bus service? There are actually sizeable numbers on that section of the route. The 75 links in with the 17 at Rathfarnham to Tallaght.

The 76/a/b and 210 all pass the new Clondalkin/Fonthill station but for some bizarre reason there is no bus stop outside it - this is an opportunity missed.

Blanchardstown to Swords is already there with UrBus so there is no hope of Dublin Bus introducing such a route.

Tallaght to Lucan was tried before (the old 74), but the loads were far from promising (surprisingly enough) if I recall correctly.

The 17a is straghtforward because it the areas it links (Finglas, Ballymun, Santry, Coolock and Kilbarrack) are served by a linear road. There are not so many opportunities to do that on the southside of Dublin, because the main route through South Dublin (the R112 from Foster Avenue through to Ballyfermot) misses some of the main catchment areas. The 17 picks up in good numbers at Clonskeagh, Nutgrove, Rathfarnham, Terenure, and KCR.

KC61 · 16-12-2009 12:33PM

Paulj wrote: »

This is what i'd like to see. DB identifying viable routes that would have enough passenger numbers to warrent a regular service. Even with 2 buses per hour the main problem is not know when its coming. When/if they introduce the GPS tracking and also bus stops with estimated times at each stop it might make these routes more popular.

I think that will be a big step in the right direction.

Cool Mo D · 16-12-2009 04:04PM

KC61 wrote: »

So what do you do with the half-full bus loads of people that I see heading east every morning on the 17 as it arrives into Terenure? Are you saying that they should not have a bus service? There are actually sizeable numbers on that section of the route. The 75 links in with the 17 at Rathfarnham to Tallaght.

The 76/a/b and 210 all pass the new Clondalkin/Fonthill station but for some bizarre reason there is no bus stop outside it - this is an opportunity missed.

Blanchardstown to Swords is already there with UrBus so there is no hope of Dublin Bus introducing such a route.

Tallaght to Lucan was tried before (the old 74), but the loads were far from promising (surprisingly enough) if I recall correctly.

The 17a is straghtforward because it the areas it links (Finglas, Ballymun, Santry, Coolock and Kilbarrack) are served by a linear road. There are not so many opportunities to do that on the southside of Dublin, because the main route through South Dublin (the R112 from Foster Avenue through to Ballyfermot) misses some of the main catchment areas. The 17 picks up in good numbers at Clonskeagh, Nutgrove, Rathfarnham, Terenure, and KCR.

They could get the Luas red line to the Red Cow, or take the number 50 bus. The 17 at the moment is nearly an orbital service, except where it takes a turn onto the Crumlin road, which already has radial services, and heads towards town half-heartedly, before giving up short. If it linked in with the Red Line near the Long Mile road, it would link much of Tallaght to the south-east suburbs, and provide a decent link for students living in Tallaght to get to UCD, which is badly lacking. Much of the 17 route east of Terenure would remain as is- the 17 dog legs badly on the way from Rialto to Terenure, (which I would like to see changed), so you'd be better of walking to the 65 route anyway. Even changing the 17 to hit the Walkinstown roundabout, then Kylemore Luas would be good.

KC61 · 16-12-2009 04:29PM

I'm not disputing your point regarding Tallaght-UCD connections, but for every journey that you might add there are others that could be discommoded by making the changes.

Two good reasons the 17 goes from Rialto are:
1) It can lay over and turn easily (and this is a practical problem!)
2) It gives a connection to St James' Hospital which is a short walk away

Also in changing bus routes, particularly journey lengths, you do need to look at what the impact on the Peak Vehicle Requirement (PVR) is and also how the driver rosters work out as well.

misslt · 17-12-2009 12:35PM

KC61 wrote: »

Blanchardstown to Swords is already there with UrBus so there is no hope of Dublin Bus introducing such a route.

I'd love to see a Swords-Blanch Route - The UrBus is so expensive (€5.50 from Swords to Blanch :eek:) and it takes sooooo long.

A DB route here would be great.

Cookie_Monster · 17-12-2009 02:49PM

Thats less than 10 mins walk in fairness...

KC61 · 17-12-2009 03:58PM

misslt wrote: »

I'd love to see a Swords-Blanch Route - The UrBus is so expensive (€5.50 from Swords to Blanch :eek:) and it takes sooooo long.

A DB route here would be great.

That's because it is not subsidised - that gives you an idea of what the real economic fares might be!

No chance whatsoever of a DB route once Urbus are there already.

luckat · 19-12-2009 09:00AM

We need black taxis like Derry - a bus-type service produced by the people for the people, rather than imposed from on high.

Dublin Bus route planner?

Comments