Dublin Bus route planner?

luckat · 15-12-2009 09:55AM #1

Is there a bus route planner for Dublin that tells you what buses to get for a journey that needs changes? I can't find anything like that.

The one site I found that claimed to do it offered me a 986-metre (ie nearly a mile!) walk at either end of the route.

loyatemu · 15-12-2009 10:10AM

luckat wrote: »

986-metre (ie nearly a mile!)

1 mile = 1,609.344 meters

it is however, nearly a kilometre.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 11:07AM

luckat wrote: »

Is there a bus route planner for Dublin that tells you what buses to get for a journey that needs changes? I can't find anything like that.

The one site I found that claimed to do it offered me a 986-metre (ie nearly a mile!) walk at either end of the route.

Not as yet - it is under development for release next year I believe.

What's the journey that you need to do?

markpb · 15-12-2009 11:42AM

KC61 wrote: »

Not as yet - it is under development for release next year I believe.

That's what they told me two years ago too

What's even more shocking is that Google have already developed a journey planner that lots of cities use and they offer it free of charge. All DB need to do is format the timetables[*] in an acceptable format and upload them to Google. Instead, they're going to waste several years and at least tens of thousands of euros replicating that work and probably not doing it as well.

* Of course, this presumes DB can provide working/staged timetables to Google but that's a prerequisite they're going to stumble on no matter what system they use.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 12:28PM

It is definitely in the pipeline Mark. There is a new network spider map due imminently I believe too, which should be a large step forward in terms of customer information.

Redoing the timetables is not as straightforward as you suggest and will require a fair amount of work. The internal working timetables at present are planned only using either terminus, with the exception of cross-city routes which have city centre approximate times. They have to now be recast on a route-by-route basis based on bus stop locations.

At the moment there is a full network review ongoing, and I understand that we will see the fruits of this in 2010 with redesigned routes and timetables, with a drive to clockface formats, and also I believe intermediate times, with improved information at stops, online and in Head Office.

It is bqasically a full route and branch review of the entire operation following the Deloitte report earlier this year - while we all know that there are an awful lot of shortcomings, I think we do need to hold fire until the results of the review begin to take shape.

luckat · 15-12-2009 02:11PM

KC61 I need to get to Pearse Street Library (down at the Canal Basin end), from Dame Street or Aston Quay. (The first bus is easy enough - I can get a bus to either of these, or indeed to Dawson Street.)

KC61 · 15-12-2009 02:24PM

OK If you go to Townsend Street, bus stop CS you can take any of the 1, 2, 3, 50, 56A, 77 or 77A.

They are all very frequent.

Ham'nd'egger · 15-12-2009 02:34PM

KC61 wrote: »

It is definitely in the pipeline Mark. There is a new network spider map due imminently I believe too, which should be a large step forward in terms of customer information.

Redoing the timetables is not as straightforward as you suggest and will require a fair amount of work. The internal working timetables at present are planned only using either terminus, with the exception of cross-city routes which have city centre approximate times. They have to now be recast on a route-by-route basis based on bus stop locations.

At the moment there is a full network review ongoing, and I understand that we will see the fruits of this in 2010 with redesigned routes and timetables, with a drive to clockface formats, and also I believe intermediate times, with improved information at stops, online and in Head Office.

It is bqasically a full route and branch review of the entire operation following the Deloitte report earlier this year - while we all know that there are an awful lot of shortcomings, I think we do need to hold fire until the results of the review begin to take shape.

It may be of worth noting that there is an iPhone App with Dublin Bus info called Dublin Buster. The free version has route maps, stops and timetables of the main services along with LUAS information while it's big brother costs €2.35 and allows you to select buses from one point to another.

luckat · 15-12-2009 02:39PM

Thank you, that's great - Townsend Street. What's this CS?

loyatemu · 15-12-2009 02:42PM

KC61 wrote: »

OK If you go to Townsend Street, bus stop CS you can take any of the 1, 2, 3, 50, 56A, 77 or 77A.

They are all very frequent.

By the time you've walked over to Townsend St, you might as well keep walking - the library is not that far down Pearse St: http://tinyurl.com/y8s4eah

KC61 · 15-12-2009 02:43PM

luckat wrote: »

Thank you, that's great - Townsend Street. What's this CS?

All the city centre stops now have two letter identifiers either on a panel clipped to the standard bus stop or on a disc at the top of the new "trueform" style bus stops.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre-Bus-Stops/

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre-Bus-Stops/Trinity-College-Bus-Stops/

luckat · 15-12-2009 02:53PM

Do they so, begob? Efficiency almost strikes! Soon (perhaps) we'll have GPS location of buses and all-city routing done from a single central point, with all the little buses beetling along on a virtual map that citizens can actually look at!

Sorry, dropped into a dream state for a moment there.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 03:26PM

luckat wrote: »

Do they so, begob? Efficiency almost strikes! Soon (perhaps) we'll have GPS location of buses and all-city routing done from a single central point, with all the little buses beetling along on a virtual map that citizens can actually look at!

Sorry, dropped into a dream state for a moment there.

The GPS is currently being rolled out on route 123 as a trial before rolling out onto the rest of the network.

luckat · 15-12-2009 03:34PM

But without *central* routing of all buses from one point, it means nothing.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 03:45PM

I really do think people should wait and see. There have been some improvements this year in terms of information and I think it'll gradually feed through in 2010.

markpb · 15-12-2009 03:54PM

KC61 wrote: »

I really do think people should wait and see. There have been some improvements this year in terms of information and I think it'll gradually feed through in 2010.

You'll have to excuse our apathy, DB have had years and to fix even minor things that they were completely in control of. Their website and the information on it is terrible (although the recent route maps are helpful when they're accurate), the information on their timetables is atrocious, only one route that I know of (the 104) has a public working timetable at all, the opening hours of their phone line are awful and depots either don't answer the phone (H'town) or can't help because they can't contact the drivers (Ringsend). Their ability to deal with staff issues is unreal (the drivers on the 15 routes regularly skip the end of the route and neither the depot not HQ staff are able to do anything about it), they accept cash on express routes when they should be eliminating it or making it so expensive people buy tickets.

The list is endless. DB needs more than new technology, they need new management. I used to believe DB could change and improve but I haven't seen any of it yet. It's not all bad, my own two buses are reliable and the 27x is great but we need that across the entire network to entice people to use it. The lack of a journey planner is a huge impediment - people shouldn't have to come here and ask you what buses to get

angel01 · 15-12-2009 04:00PM

KC61 wrote: »

It is definitely in the pipeline Mark. There is a new network spider map due imminently I believe too, which should be a large step forward in terms of customer information.

Redoing the timetables is not as straightforward as you suggest and will require a fair amount of work. The internal working timetables at present are planned only using either terminus, with the exception of cross-city routes which have city centre approximate times. They have to now be recast on a route-by-route basis based on bus stop locations.

At the moment there is a full network review ongoing, and I understand that we will see the fruits of this in 2010 with redesigned routes and timetables, with a drive to clockface formats, and also I believe intermediate times, with improved information at stops, online and in Head Office.

It is bqasically a full route and branch review of the entire operation following the Deloitte report earlier this year - while we all know that there are an awful lot of shortcomings, I think we do need to hold fire until the results of the review begin to take shape.

This review that is happening, will they make cutbacks to the routes that are operating or merge routes?

angel01 · 15-12-2009 04:01PM

KC61 wrote: »

I really do think people should wait and see. There have been some improvements this year in terms of information and I think it'll gradually feed through in 2010.

How about you ring HQ and ask for information, they are completely clueless, they want to get you off the phone as quick as possible, take your name, promise to call you back and surprise surprise, you never get a call :rolleyes::(

Victor · 15-12-2009 04:12PM

luckat, if its any use, the 74/a goes that direction also.

angel01 wrote: »

This review that is happening, will they make cutbacks to the routes that are operating or merge routes?

The general idea to merge sub-routes into solid, consistent, high frequency, direct routes.

angel01 · 15-12-2009 04:18PM

Victor wrote: »

luckat, if its any use, the 74/a goes that direction also.

The general idea to merge sub-routes into solid, consistent, high frequency, direct routes.

Sorry, I don't have that much knowledge about this. What would you count as sub- routes?

KC61 · 15-12-2009 04:50PM

Basically the Deloitte report recommended that each corridor would have a core route that would stick to the corridor itself rather than diverting and taking major detours around estates and which would operate at a high frequency. Examples are the 128, 145, 140 and 151.

Also, where there are several routes grouped along a corridor, they should in so far as possible have co-ordinated regular interval timetables (preferably clockface - i.e. same minutes past each hour).

Alongside that core route there would be other routes that would then deviate. So, for example on the Finglas corridor the 140 is the core route, with the 40/a/d then being the route that deviates around the housing estates.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 04:52PM

angel01 wrote: »

How about you ring HQ and ask for information, they are completely clueless, they want to get you off the phone as quick as possible, take your name, promise to call you back and surprise surprise, you never get a call :rolleyes::(

I really cannot comment on that as I don't work for Dublin Bus. However, I am aware that they have committed to implementing the Deloitte report and I am aware that there is significant work ongoing to do this in 2010.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 05:04PM

markpb wrote: »

You'll have to excuse our apathy, DB have had years and to fix even minor things that they were completely in control of. Their website and the information on it is terrible (although the recent route maps are helpful when they're accurate), the information on their timetables is atrocious, only one route that I know of (the 104) has a public working timetable at all, the opening hours of their phone line are awful and depots either don't answer the phone (H'town) or can't help because they can't contact the drivers (Ringsend). Their ability to deal with staff issues is unreal (the drivers on the 15 routes regularly skip the end of the route and neither the depot not HQ staff are able to do anything about it), they accept cash on express routes when they should be eliminating it or making it so expensive people buy tickets.

The list is endless. DB needs more than new technology, they need new management. I used to believe DB could change and improve but I haven't seen any of it yet. It's not all bad, my own two buses are reliable and the 27x is great but we need that across the entire network to entice people to use it. The lack of a journey planner is a huge impediment - people shouldn't have to come here and ask you what buses to get

No one doubts what you're saying, but until the review following the Deloitte report last year is concluded we'll all have to wait to see what happens.

What I can say is that there have been some improvements - such as the introduction of direct routes such as the 140, 128, 151 and 145. Others have been delayed by DoT. The implementation of the new GPS technology (delayed by DoT) will deliver the basic tools for management to schedule and control the bus service on a daily basis. They will help schedulers prepare reasonably accurate working timetables with intermediate points. Until that is done, any route planner will be relatively useless.

Victor · 15-12-2009 05:19PM

angel01 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't have that much knowledge about this. What would you count as sub- routes?

Route 40 (Parnell Street to Finglas) was over the years split into the 40, 40a, 40b, 40c & 40d.

These were merged into the 40/a (7 minute peak frequency) and 40d (20 minute frequency).

All the 40 and 40a buses operate to Charlestown and the same route from Parnell Street to the Tolka Bridge, albeit with some peak services diverting through South and West Finglas.

The 40d covers Tyrrelstown and South Finglas.

Overall what it means is a more higher and more consistent frequency with less bunching at much lower cost. Together with this, route 140 was introduced, giving a faster, direct service as far as Leeson Street Bridge.

angel01 · 15-12-2009 05:28PM

Victor wrote: »

Route 40 (Parnell Street to Finglas) was over the years split into the 40, 40a, 40b, 40c & 40d.

These were merged into the 40/a (7 minute peak frequency) and 40d (20 minute frequency).

All the 40 and 40a buses operate to Charlestown and the same route from Parnell Street to the Tolka Bridge, albeit with some peak services diverting through South and West Finglas.

The 40d covers Tyrrelstown and South Finglas.

Overall what it means is a more higher and more consistent frequency with less bunching at much lower cost.

But hasn't the 40D already had serious cutbacks? surely they can't cut that back anymore? Finglas is well covered with lots of choice, less choice for people in Tyrrelstown.

KC61 · 15-12-2009 05:38PM

angel01 wrote: »

But hasn't the 40D already had serious cutbacks? surely they can't cut that back anymore? Finglas is well covered with lots of choice, less choice for people in Tyrrelstown.

No one is suggesting that the 40D will necessarily be cut back further. I don't know. Given it has changed already it's probably unlikely. However, in fairness it was only cut back to every 15 minutes in the peak from every 14 and to every 30 minutes during the off-peak from evey 20. There are other routes that had far greater cutbacks.

The fundamental problem is where you have no co-ordination between bus timetables, such as the 25, 25a, 26, 66/a/b, and 67/a on the Lucan corridor where several buses can leave simultaneously and then there is a long gap. There needs to be co-ordinated schedules on each corridor. Who is to say that the 25A or another Lucan Corridor route should not continue through the city to somewhere else?

The whole design of bus schedules, frequency and routes needs a comprehensive overhaul and that's what I believe is in train if you pardon the pun.

luckat · 15-12-2009 06:05PM

As a passenger, I think the only thing that will improve Dublin Bus's service is commercial competitors.

If there was a Ryanair-style competitor out there stealing their passengers they'd quickly retain the discipline of their drivers and start serving passengers properly.

I hope some entrepreneur starts a competitive service soon, with lawyers backed up and ready to take on Dublin Bus if they try to drive the new buses out.

armada104 · 15-12-2009 06:13PM

KC61 wrote: »

a full route and branch review

badum-tish!

Victor · 15-12-2009 06:14PM

angel01 wrote: »

But hasn't the 40D already had serious cutbacks? surely they can't cut that back anymore? Finglas is well covered with lots of choice, less choice for people in Tyrrelstown.

Sorry, I am advocating the recent rationalisation as a good thing and the previous plethora of routes as a less good thing.

40d should stay as it is materially different and is the only route between Finglas and the Blanchardstown industrial estates.

bazzer · 15-12-2009 06:29PM

Victor wrote: »

40d should stay as it is materially different and is the only route between Finglas and the Blanchardstown industrial estates.

... apart from the 220.

Paulj · 15-12-2009 11:54PM

Can we expect any more orbital routes such as the one from tallaght to dun laoghaire?

Dublin Bus route planner?

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