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N17 & M18 - Galway to Tuam and rest of Atlantic corridor back on agenda

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Derek I can take your point about driver quality, but I hadn't been down this road since the recent tragedy until yesterday - I noted that approaching the location of the accident (from Sligo) there are a lot more temporary electronic signs warning of bad bends ahead and to slow down - were these put up after the accident?

    Going through that bend again - and in the light of what happened recently it really bought to mind just how bloody dangerous it is.

    From Sligo a sharp right hand bend, a brow of a hill then down about 30 yards before a right angle left hand bend. It is a akin to a rally course not a national route - those poor girls - on a night like the accident was, it wouldn't take much in terms of loss of concentration to slip across the road at that bend and hit any oncoming vehicle

    If this accident isn't a catalyst to get things sorted in the meantime on that bend then I really don't know what the authorities are playing at - I don't think it's acceptable now just to wait the maybe ten years for the dc to come along, Galway Coco and Mayo coco and the NRA need to do something and soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    DWCommuter:

    Quite frankly, despite the poor quality of driving in this country in general, I do strenously object to your position. I think poor quality roads entirely unsurprisingly do result in lives lost.

    While "massive" roads everywhere isn't feasible, I do think we have to *improve* roads (to some degree) *everywhere*. At the very least bring all R and N roads to a reasonable standard, which we are still a very long way away from in general, despite the new motorway network.

    Of course funding is in short supply at present, but that is only relevant to arguments as to what *can* be done, not what *should* be done.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    They only just reopened ( and resurfaced) this part of the goat track after floods last week.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/10038-man-critical-condition-following-serious-crash-gort
    A man is in a critical condition in hospital following a serious two car collision in Gort earlier. The crash happened at around 3 o' clock this afternoon just below the level crossing at Kiltartan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Has anyone heard what Noel Grealish may be putting on his must have for continued support list:

    Just mindful of his previous utterings on N17 and CG bypasss.

    Just one example here from three years ago.

    http://www.nuachtchlair.com/nlpdf/janfeb07/January%20February%202007%20-%2000001.pdf


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    westtip wrote: »
    Has anyone heard what Noel Grealish may be putting on his must have

    Grealish will do a Jackie Healy mystery list that 'must remain confidential' so he can claim credit for absolutely anything and get notified of expenditures on 'ministerial terms' like Jackie does by the whips office.

    I have only one thing to say to Grealish while he tries to save himself from the real economy.

    LinksGTFO.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Sponge I agree these independents like Jackie Healy Rae are a bunch of charlatans and epitomise the very depths of what is bad about our parish pump politics mentality. However if Grealish can seriously bump tne N17 Gort Tuam up the waiting list and maybe a relief road for CG, then at least we will get something from this shambles - I know its my backyard politics and I am being selfish as a better route to Galway would be great for Sligo/Galway travellers....and the sooner the better and less death injuries and misery as well.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    Grealish only wants a deal where he can announce on the same terms as Fahey or O Cuiv and gets informed at the same time that the shed roof at Ballymagoo school is to be replaced and can claim credit for it.

    That is all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Power is knowledge. I know a teacher in Donegal who got information ahead of pat the cope about some work being done on her school, all the work and lobbying to the DOE had been done on a direct level between the community and the Department. She got the nod and went on local radio and announced the grant; Pat the Cope huffed and puffed and tried to come in claiming credit - he was apparently livid!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    And I know a teacher who had O Cuiv claim credit for a new set of windows she got for her school a full year after they were approved and long after they were installed. His secretary read the YEAR wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    I know they really are a pathetic breed.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Padge.leeds


    I would see the issue here being simply that the young girls underestimated the corner and took it too fast. In Ireland this is VERY easy to do.
    The speed that you take a corner at is completely up to you to determine with your experience and judgment
    The girls were only 18/ 19 so the driver was max 2 years driving.
    How should they know this was a 50kmh corner? Or a 40kmh in the wet. HOW?

    I'd compare this to Germany.
    Before any corner on a main road, there is a speed limit specified limit which is appropriate for the bend. So if its 80kmh its a curve, if its 40kmh or less its a bloody bad bend and you'd want to hit the brakes ASAP or you'll be off the road.

    I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

    How slow is slow? How cautious is cautious? How dangerous is dangerous?
    Slap a limit sign with a number on it and you quantify the danger and hopefully save lives.

    Dude your talking about domthing you have no clue about your looking at a picture and telling us all how this need be averted in the future. How dare you interject an opinion on who was on what side of the road. You idiot.
    And would people really heed speed signs i dont think so the bend is to blame the bad.. no atrocious weather and maybe other factors we will never know i lost my cousin that night and a lot of other people will feel the loss of them girls for a very long time. Your not the solution to the problem no one here is how dare anyone give an opinion on the situation is unreal


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,865 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Dude your talking about domthing you have no clue about your looking at a picture and telling us all how this need be averted in the future. How dare you interject an opinion on who was on what side of the road. You idiot.
    And would people really heed speed signs i dont think so the bend is to blame the bad.. no atrocious weather and maybe other factors we will never know i lost my cousin that night and a lot of other people will feel the loss of them girls for a very long time. Your not the solution to the problem no one here is how dare anyone give an opinion on the situation is unreal
    Sorry for your loss, but everyone here is entitled to give an opinion so long as it conforms to the rules of this board, including you.

    You criticise him for giving an opinion about the cause of the accident, yet give one yourself in the same post. My grandfather was knocked down and killed by a driver outside mass, the cause of the accident is not even agreed upon by our own family! Some blame the driver, some don't. Everyone can comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 802 kiwipower


    Hi, Just wondering does anyone know what the situation is with the N18 Gort to Oranmore? Is there plans in future to make this a motorway?
    Appologies if this has been covered previously. i have had a quick scan of the post but cant seem to find a reference to this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭ 123easy


    Yes its called the M17 M18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme - a motorway from Gort to tuam intersecting the M6 at approx. Location near Athenry. There getting close to awarding the contract i.e. couple of months from now


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 Voodoo_rasher


    what does this mean exactly?

    Can this have implications for the furthering of the Atlantic Corridor northwards.

    Supposing that the remainder is deemed a luxury project to be scrapped or commuted to a smaller scale when Capital Projects are reviewed next September..

    A dual-carriageway in vicinity of low population centers in south Sligo is ridiculous and grandiose, imho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    Tuam Bypass as a 'stand alone' project..

    what does this mean exactly?

    The project is split by Galway County Council into 3 sections:
    Gort to Athenry - N18 (not to be m/way according to the site)
    Athenry to Tuam - M17
    Tuam Bypass - N17
    Can this have implications for the furthering of the Atlantic Corridor northwards.

    Not really, it's part of the overall plan for the Atlantic Corridor. There's no point in NOT building this road - it'd be a bit like having the N4 without kinnnegad, N6 without moate, athlone or ballinasloe etc bypassed.

    What it might do is take the pressure off deliver of the whole project until the public finances improve to the point where we can borrow money to pay for it.
    Supposing that the remainder is deemed a luxury project to be scrapped or commuted to a smaller scale when Capital Projects are reviewed next September..

    Not likely given:
    1) Claregalway has an AADT of twice the design capacity of single lane road
    2) the NRA has used this project as a justification for the lack of progress on a CG bypass
    3) The N18 into Galway is important for access to the southwest for everything north of Galway city.
    A dual-carriageway in vicinity of low population centers in south Sligo is ridiculous and grandiose, imho.

    It's unfortunate that there's no traffic data for Sligo, but from a future development p.o.v why is providing infrastructure to such areas such a bad thing? Hell it might even help reduce costs and return us to something resembling competitive.

    It might even help tourism in the area, because a lot of people decide not to go places if it takes ages on bad roads to get there. It'll also make the scenic routes less stressful and more enjoyable


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 Voodoo_rasher


    antoobrien wrote: »
    It's unfortunate that there's no traffic data for Sligo, but from a future development p.o.v why is providing infrastructure to such areas such a bad thing? Hell it might even help reduce costs and return us to something resembling competitive.

    It might even help tourism in the area, because a lot of people decide not to go places if it takes ages on bad roads to get there. It'll also make the scenic routes less stressful and more enjoyable

    )). much of what lies south of Sligo town is of very little tourism merit or curiousity. Its where Yeats County abruptly ends and becomes the back of beyond. Aside from bypasses (Tubber already has a ring-road decades old and thats likely to be jettisoned cos new estates are already in the way; ignored so more waste), there is little need for something extravagant as a DC throughout that section to Charlestn (imho).


  • Registered Users Posts: 802 kiwipower


    )). much of what lies south of Sligo town is of very little tourism merit or curiousity. Its where Yeats County abruptly ends and becomes the back of beyond. Aside from bypasses (Tubber already has a ring-road decades old and thats likely to be jettisoned cos new estates are already in the way; ignored so more waste), there is little need for something extravagant as a DC throughout that section to Charlestn (imho).

    Tourist Attractions - KNOCK ???

    Plus airport

    Plus poor quality N4 in many parts from Sligo to East of Mullingar.

    Only access route from Cork/Limerick/Galway to Sligo/Donegal (and probobably areas of NI) is via these roadways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    kiwipower wrote: »
    Tourist Attractions - KNOCK ???

    Plus airport

    Plus poor quality N4 in many parts from Sligo to East of Mullingar.

    Only access route from Cork/Limerick/Galway to Sligo/Donegal (and probobably areas of NI) is via these roadways.

    Add Kerry, Waterford, South Tipp, and Clare to that list


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    There are rumours that Leo/DOT have told Galway CoCo that the M17/M18 project will not go ahead with state funds but as a placatory measure the CoCo have been 'invited to make a case' for the Tuam Bypass bit of the former PPP project together with the single carriageway Claregalway Bypass. Naturally this means officially dropping other projects such as the R336 and Moycullen Bypass or Leo won't talk to them.

    I did hear that they could keep 3 projects alive...for now...if they name the three projects.

    Making a case means feck all in Claregalway, they will not have an EIS/CPO ready before 2012 anyway and cannot really go to construction any earlier than 2013.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭ FGR


    So is it basically the case that each Co Co in the Atlantic Corridor project will be given a choice of a select few improvements that were originally going ahead in T21?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    Every coco everywhere I should think. We are currently paying various consultants and NRA staff a fortune to scratch away at designs that will not be built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭ runway16


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    There are rumours that Leo/DOT have told Galway CoCo that the M17/M18 project will not go ahead with state funds but as a placatory measure the CoCo have been 'invited to make a case' for the Tuam Bypass bit of the former PPP project together with the single carriageway Claregalway Bypass. Naturally this means officially dropping other projects such as the R336 and Moycullen Bypass or Leo won't talk to them.

    I did hear that they could keep 3 projects alive...for now...if they name the three projects.

    Making a case means feck all in Claregalway, they will not have an EIS/CPO ready before 2012 anyway and cannot really go to construction any earlier than 2013.

    Am I to assume that "not going ahead with state funds" means that Gort-Tuam will be hard tolled and built entirely with private money?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭ glineli


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    There are rumours that Leo/DOT have told Galway CoCo that the M17/M18 project will not go ahead with state funds but as a placatory measure the CoCo have been 'invited to make a case' for the Tuam Bypass bit of the former PPP project together with the single carriageway Claregalway Bypass. Naturally this means officially dropping other projects such as the R336 and Moycullen Bypass or Leo won't talk to them.

    I did hear that they could keep 3 projects alive...for now...if they name the three projects.

    Making a case means feck all in Claregalway, they will not have an EIS/CPO ready before 2012 anyway and cannot really go to construction any earlier than 2013.

    Was gort to tuam going to be funded by the dot? I thought it was European money and then private investment with it being tolled to repay that investment?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Was going to be shadow tolled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭ glineli


    MYOB wrote: »
    Was going to be shadow tolled.

    Yes, but no initial money was to be put up by the dot, so this could still go ahead?


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭ runway16


    glineli wrote: »
    Yes, but no initial money was to be put up by the dot, so this could still go ahead?

    As far as I understand, there is no interest among concessionaires for shadow tolled schemes now, as it effectively lending to the state.

    They could proceed by tolling the route, where the concessionaire is guaranteed a return.

    It is likely that anything that goes ahead motorway wise (such as Cork-Limerick, Gort - Tuam) will now have to be tolled, or abandoned.

    I'd take the tolling option to be honest. The country simply needs these two schemes.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,618 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    I don't think hard-tolling would make enough money. Remember that one of the main toll operators in the country has already seen what tolling a bypass of a small regional city gets you (no traffic).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭ glineli


    So basically there is no chance to Gort to Tuam going ahead as shadow tolling wont happen, the dot dont have money to put into the scheme and hard tolling wont pay back fast enough.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    Here's a map of the Tuam Bypass. As you can see it starts and ends at roundabouts on the current N17 (before and after Tuam). So It could be built as a standalone project. However if they are going to can Gort-Tuam they at least need to build the Claregalway bypass at the same time they do Tuam.

    http://www.galway.ie/en/media/Overall%20Scheme.pdf


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