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N17 & M18 - Galway to Tuam and rest of Atlantic corridor back on agenda

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    N11 gap has been CPOed for years :(


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    The revised Programme for Government says that the final designs of all 94 planned road projects will be reviewed in the light of falling traffic (!), and environmental and economic circumstances.

    Translated, that means that any planned motorways/HQDCs will probably be downgraded to 2+2 standard and any planned 2+2 will probably be downgraded to single-carriageway.

    It also seems likely that some of these projects will be dropped, at least for the lifetime of this government.

    I'd expect the Gort to Tuam motorway to go ahead though, although it's very unlikely that the M20 will proceed or that most of the proposed 2+2 upgrades to the N17 between Tuam and Collooney and the N15 between Sligo and Co. Donegal will proceed.
    This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

    Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭ Nuttzz


    spacetweek wrote: »
    This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

    Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?

    i feel the dead hand of the greens....


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ schween


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?

    This is why our country has so many planning/infrastructure problems. Instead of build it and they will come our govt waits for them to come, then sits about for a few years pondering what to do, then spends a fortune building around them and trying to cope with everybody spread out in an urban/semi-urban mess.

    Hopefully it won't be shelved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    spacetweek wrote: »
    This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

    Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?

    Exactly.

    Any falls in traffic levels are going to be temporary.

    The long-term population figures predict that Ireland will have 5 million people before mid-century, roughly an extra 500,000 people compared to 2009.

    That's a hell of a lot of extra traffic...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    That was an awful accident on the N17 last night, 4 young girls killed. Locals on the news said the road is an absolute blackspot there and there have been numerous serious accident in recent years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭ deiseman21


    bad alright, reactionary comments always are!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    THE NATIONAL Roads Authority has been urged to take immediate action to improve the stretch of road on the Galway-Mayo border where four young students lost their lives in a collision between a car and a truck on Tuesday night.

    A fifth student, 21-year-old Michelle O’Donnell, daughter of the RNLI Aran Island lifeboat coxswain, was still in a critical condition in hospital last night, having sustained head and chest injuries.

    The four students who died on Tuesday night have been named as Sarah Byrne (20) from Headford, Co Galway; Theresa Molloy (19) from Leitir Móir, Co Galway; Marie Stephanie Ní Conghaíle (19) from Baile na hAbhann, Co Galway; and Sorcha Rose McLoughlin (19) from Mulgannon, Co Wexford.
    The driver of a truck involved in the collision in darkness and torrential rain at Carrownurlaur, between Milltown, Co Galway, and Ballindine, Co Mayo, was released yesterday from Mayo General Hospital in Castlebar.

    Gardaí in Tuam, Co Galway, are investigating the collision, amid calls from residents living close to the crash location for urgent action to address a very dangerous stretch of road.

    The five students studied Irish together at NUI Galway as part of their arts degree. The friends, who had attended Michelle O’Donnell’s 21st birthday party on Inis Mór only a few weeks ago, had been returning from a shopping trip in Sligo when the crash happened at about 7.30pm.
    Mayo Fire Service senior assistant fire officer Tony Shevlin said the alert was received at 7.32pm, and fire officers arrived at the scene at 7.47pm, with units from Claremorris and Ballyhaunis, along with the ambulance service and gardaí.

    “Three of those in the car were dead so we concentrated on the two who were alive and most in need of assistance. All of them were removed from the scene by 8.24pm,” he said.

    The scene was such that at first emergency services believed one of the women had been a passenger in the truck.

    Fr Michael Kenny of Kilconly parish was called to give the Last Rites. “I will never forget it. It was a scene of devastation,” he said.
    Fr Martin O’Connor of Ballindine parish said the truck driver was badly shocked but was recovering. He said the people of Ballindine had been very distressed at the loss of so many young lives.

    Residents living close to the crash area expressed shock at the circumstances of the collision, and said that they had been appealing for years for action to be taken on two dangerous bends – known as Coyne’s Bend and Hernon’s Bend, on the eight kilometre stretch between Ballindine and Milltown.

    A total of 20 crashes occurred at the two bends in the last three months according to Mary Hernon, who lives at Musicfield on Hernon’s Bend.
    Flowers were still in place at Coyne’s Bend yesterday in memory of a man who lost his life there on August 21st.
    “8,000 cars pass here every day between Galway and Sligo, and we have been on to the NRA, the county council and councillors and the gardaí about this most dangerous stretch on the entire N17,” Ms Hernon said. “My sympathies go out to the families of these women, and to the whole population of the university and all those doing exams.”
    Ms Hernon said that she and neighbour John Coyne had met on Monday to try to organise a petition about the road. “John Coyne has seen more crashes than anyone in his lifetime and it is so traumatic for those involved and for him also,” she said.

    Marita Gibbons, niece of Mr Coyne, said the bend was “dangerous whatever the weather”.
    “When it’s dry, people are injured and when it is wet people die,” she said. “This is the second time that this road has been closed for fatalities in the last three months and it is a very eerie feeling.” An NRA spokesman could not be reached for comment.

    Mayor of Co Galway Cllr Tom McHugh expressed his sympathies to the families of those who died. The volume of rain had been “unprecedented” on Monday night, he said, and he had never experienced driving conditions like it in Co Galway.

    The crash brought to five the number of deaths on Galway roads in a 12-hour period. Sally O’Brien (58), a mother of 12 from Williamstown was driving her five-year-old grand-daughter to school shortly after 9am on Tuesday when her car struck a wall. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Her grand-daughter was treated in hospital.
    Supt Marie Skehill, who is leading the investigation into Tuesday night’s collision, appealed for anyone who passed the area between 7.20pm and 8pm to contact Tuam Garda station on 093-70840.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1119/1224259108641.html


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 Sponge Bob


    There is another bad bend south of Milltown ( at Castletown ) and that was tendered out two years ago

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP091165

    Nothing done to it at all whatever they are at :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    nothing will happen as per usual unless we make it happen - the tragic loss of these four girls and others who have lost their lives on this stretch of road would quite simply not have happened if the road was a seamless DC, that is not to say there would be no further accidents but the liklihood of such devastating head ons is vastly diminished. More flowers by the roadside and memorials erected - but no fast tracking of the removal of these death traps claiming the lives of our citizens.

    A local resident on TV news referred to the new road coming but that is a long way off; how many more such tragedies are we to witness on the N17 before the big project moves on.

    On a wet windy night it is dangerous to drive, and accidents will happen - in these conditions to give people these rally driving country lanes as main arterial routes - then the state has to look at its role in this sorry situation.

    Wake up government and start fast tracking these projects before more lives are lost.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Had to drive to Castlebar one night last winter when there was very bad weather. I foolishly took the N84 on the way up as that is the shortest route - it was the worst experience I have ever had driving (aweful road in aweful weather at night). I took the N60 and N17 coming home that night and it wasn't as bad as the N84, but it is still really bad. Spent the whole journey wishing the M/N17 was finished/upgraded.

    The M/N17 upgrade will definitely save lives - it will take a good chunk of N84 traffic as well as existing N17 traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    First off, dreadfully sad story.

    Anyone got any pics of these bendy bits?

    Are they similar to the sandwiched section of N11 which is still twisty S2 with no overtaking for about 6km?

    Have the NRA/GCC/MCC at least installed double white lines, no passing signage and good road markings including cat's eyes and hazard signage? Any anti-skid coatings been applied at particular points? What is the speed limit? Is it generally adhered to or broken? Do the Gardai attempt to enforce road traffic law here?

    A road being bendy is not automatically going to lead to fatalities. There's a lot more involved! A new DC is a long way off so (as with the N11) remedial measures sound like they need to be taken.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    murphaph wrote: »
    <snip>
    A road being bendy is not automatically going to lead to fatalities. There's a lot more involved! A new DC is a long way off so (as with the N11) remedial measures sound like they need to be taken.
    Have to agree.
    What happened here was a head on collision on a national primary route which is plenty wide for 2 trucks to pass.
    So, someone was not on their side of the road.
    From the picture below, the road is plenty wide for 2 small vehicles to safely pass.
    1224259108641_2.jpg

    I would see the issue here being simply that the young girls underestimated the corner and took it too fast. In Ireland this is VERY easy to do.
    The speed that you take a corner at is completely up to you to determine with your experience and judgment
    The girls were only 18/ 19 so the driver was max 2 years driving.
    How should they know this was a 50kmh corner? Or a 40kmh in the wet. HOW?

    I'd compare this to Germany.
    Before any corner on a main road, there is a speed limit specified limit which is appropriate for the bend. So if its 80kmh its a curve, if its 40kmh or less its a bloody bad bend and you'd want to hit the brakes ASAP or you'll be off the road.

    I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

    How slow is slow? How cautious is cautious? How dangerous is dangerous?
    Slap a limit sign with a number on it and you quantify the danger and hopefully save lives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    Have to agree.
    What happened here was a head on collision on a national primary route which is plenty wide for 2 trucks to pass.
    So, someone was not on their side of the road.
    From the picture below, the road is plenty wide for 2 small vehicles to safely pass.
    1224259108641_2.jpg

    I would see the issue here being simply that the young girls underestimated the corner and took it too fast. In Ireland this is VERY easy to do.
    The speed that you take a corner at is completely up to you to determine with your experience and judgment
    The girls were only 18/ 19 so the driver was max 2 years driving.
    How should they know this was a 50kmh corner? Or a 40kmh in the wet. HOW?

    I'd compare this to Germany.
    Before any corner on a main road, there is a speed limit specified limit which is appropriate for the bend. So if its 80kmh its a curve, if its 40kmh or less its a bloody bad bend and you'd want to hit the brakes ASAP or you'll be off the road.

    I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

    How slow is slow? How cautious is cautious? How dangerous is dangerous?
    Slap a limit sign with a number on it and you quantify the danger and hopefully save lives.
    Agreed. Here in Germany there are countless B roads (equivalent of an N road) with straight sections lined by solid mature trees (no barrier) and 100 limit but when a curve comes upon you the limit drops before it to a safe speed. People die in Germany less frequently than in Ireland and a lot of it has to do with driver education.

    I would say one thing however-it's too soon to say who was at fault for this accident. The forces involved can easily throw vehicles 180 degrees out of rotation onto the other side so that picture is not enough to establish responsibility. There's also the possibility of a serious mechanical failure (always unlikely but possible) having lead to a vehicle crossing the centre line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ ardmacha


    I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

    This would be no real help, alas. People who ignore caution signs would also ignore the speed limit sign.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 Amtmann


    murphaph wrote: »
    I would say one thing however-it's too soon to say who was at fault for this accident.

    Agreed. We should not apportion blame here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Due to the accident I had to take a detour yesterday, a little boreen for about 15km to Balindine.

    Whatever caused the accident, this section of the N17 is very poor. From Miltown to Balindine is littered with bad bends and absolutely no overtaking opportunities. I reckon this is the bend that has nearly a 90 degree turn on it with a junction at the south of it.

    IMO this stretch of road should really be prioritized after the PPP's. Why sort out the bed? Get the whole stretch done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    Sorry, i meant to say that I "could" imagine a scenario that such an accident as this could have inexperience/ inability to judge severity of a corner as the root cause rather than I would presume that to be the case.

    Of course there could be many other causes.

    Nevertheless. A better indication of the severity of a bend could save lives (regardless of whether its really the cause of this accident or not).
    A sign saying "Bad Bend" doesnt really say much. A specified speed limit though would indicate precisely the severity of a bend and act as a guide to how you negotiate the corner.

    I am only back driving after a break of 9 years so could be again considered inexperienced. On the roads of Germany I find myself driving quite safely, never taking a corner too quick. But then again, how can I if even mild curves have a limit appropriate to the conditions. In Ireland I notice the difference when I the driver have to make a judgement (aka a wild guess) myself at how fast a corner is, how long it is etc. If I feck up, make a bad guess, intrepret bad bend to be "middlin" bad rather than "shockin" bad then heck, I find myself compensating by being on the wrong side of the road.

    The best example being on the ring of Kerry when a 100kmh sign was plonked before a horseshoe bend!! Que much heavy braking and a little raised heart beat!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    I don't know if it's been posted but here's the "preferred route" from Galway County Council site for Tuam to Claremorris, appears to be a type 2 DC (not that it will get built anytime soon)

    http://www.galway.ie/en/media/Media,10689,en.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    Guys look I don't know about you but perhaps we shouldn't even be talking about the detail of this accident the N17 is death trap he section of the N11 not yet done is the same parts of the N25 the N20 etc N59 and so on - I know I referred to it a few posts back and wish I hadn't now - is there any chance those photos of the carnage could be removed - isn't it bad enough for the poor family to see them on the newspapers and TV without perhaps stumbling on them again on a message board. What do ye all think.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,792 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    westtip wrote: »
    Guys look I don't know about you but perhaps we shouldn't even be talking about the detail of this accident the N17 is death trap he section of the N11 not yet done is the same parts of the N25 the N20 etc N59 and so on - I know I referred to it a few posts back and wish I hadn't now - is there any chance those photos of the carnage could be removed - isn't it bad enough for the poor family to see them on the newspapers and TV without perhaps stumbling on them again on a message board. What do ye all think.

    Very true but by highlighting what happened on these blackspots then the NRA and County Councils may be forced to take on board some of the measurea outlined to reduce the risk or eliminate them completely so other families will not have to go through this hell.
    Road accidents will alaways happen unfortunatlely as long as humans are involved but a lot can be done to greatly reduce the risk. Much of the drop in road deaths can be I believe put down to the sheer imporvement in sections of our N roads. Parts of the old N7,N8,N11 and especially N1 were awful death traps with many deaths. Now they have been bypassed and accidents have been slashed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Much of the drop in road deaths can be I believe put down to the sheer imporvement in sections of our N roads. Parts of the old N7,N8,N11 and especially N1 were awful death traps with many deaths. Now they have been bypassed and accidents have been slashed.

    Indeed around 40% of road deaths are due to head on collisions something that is effectively eliminated with proper grade seperated Motorway/DC with crash barriers. It will be interesting to see what happens post 2010, with the interurbans finished then and further road spending slashed due to the recession you would think that there mighten be any further major drops in road deaths from 2011 onwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ westtip


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Very true but by highlighting what happened on these blackspots then the NRA and County Councils may be forced to take on board some of the measurea outlined to reduce the risk or eliminate them completely so other families will not have to go through this hell.
    Road accidents will alaways happen unfortunatlely as long as humans are involved but a lot can be done to greatly reduce the risk. Much of the drop in road deaths can be I believe put down to the sheer imporvement in sections of our N roads. Parts of the old N7,N8,N11 and especially N1 were awful death traps with many deaths. Now they have been bypassed and accidents have been slashed.

    Well maybe you are right - the shock factor for our decision makers has to continue - I have just had a bad feeling about this road recently - my daughter is in 2nd year at NUIG and travels this road every other friday and sunday - I had a near miss about four weeks ago on a saturday evening (the night Ireland played Italy), it was p*ssing down and someone overtook coming towards me at about 11.30 pm - the swerve in to save their necks (and mine) was miraculous - and my breaks didn't fail me to stop in a straight line, had I not seen it coming and breaked he woudl have hit me, I wonder how many near misses like this there are everyday - I was sick to the pit of my stomach with this news and seeing those photos again on the thread just got me this afternoon


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    westtip wrote: »
    Well maybe you are right - the shock factor for our decision makers has to continue - I have just had a bad feeling about this road recently - my daughter is in 2nd year at NUIG and travels this road every other friday and sunday - I had a near miss about four weeks ago on a saturday evening (the night Ireland played Italy), it was p*ssing down and someone overtook coming towards me at about 11.30 pm - the swerve in to save their necks (and mine) was miraculous - and my breaks didn't fail me to stop in a straight line, had I not seen it coming and breaked he woudl have hit me, I wonder how many near misses like this there are everyday - I was sick to the pit of my stomach with this news and seeing those photos again on the thread just got me this afternoon

    Similar happened to me when coming up from Shannon Airport with my Dad one dark horrible night. We were going around a bad bend on the Crusheen-Gort section and some **** coming the other way was on our side of the road coming straight for us (he was overtaking on a bad bend where there was a solid white line). There was no HS to swerve into so Dad slammed on the brakes and managed to slow enough so that we avoided a smash. Could have easily been killed that night. I know there is no excuse for overtaking on such a bend, you should be banned from driving and/or jailed, but if the Gort-Crusheen section of the M18 had have been open back then, we would not have had that near miss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,898 ✭✭✭✭ kippy


    KevR wrote: »
    Similar happened to me when coming up from Shannon Airport with my Dad one dark horrible night. We were going around a bad bend on the Crusheen-Gort section and some **** coming the other way was on our side of the road coming straight for us (he was overtaking on a bad bend where there was a solid white line). There was no HS to swerve into so Dad slammed on the brakes and managed to slow enough so that we avoided a smash. Could have easily been killed that night. I know there is no excuse for overtaking on such a bend, you should be banned from driving and/or jailed, but if the Gort-Crusheen section of the M18 had have been open back then, we would not have had that near miss.

    Kev,
    No offence, but theres lots of ifs and buts that have the potential to change our lives on a daily basis. If you hadnt been on the road nothing would have happened, if you were 10 seconds earlier leaving, if he lost power in his car, if he didnt overtake etc etc....

    In relation to the crash, i am very familiar with that stretch of road and there have been a number of accidents there in recent times.
    One has to remember that at the time of the accident we had one of the worst downpours in a long long time, coupled with the bend and the night time driving conditions. I was shocked when I heard the news and genuinely sadened for all involved in the accident and those poor poor familes whose lives will never be the same again.

    The road itself is very very bendy but hundreds of vehicles pass thorugh it daily. The Ballinrobe road in my opinion is a worse state.
    After the current round of PPP is over, this and other roads like it should get funding as it is often used and in need of upgrading and as already mentioned would take traffic off the Ballinrobe road also, which too has had a number of accidents in recent years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    kippy wrote: »
    Kev,
    No offence, but theres lots of ifs and buts that have the potential to change our lives on a daily basis. If you hadnt been on the road nothing would have happened, if you were 10 seconds earlier leaving, if he lost power in his car, if he didnt overtake etc etc....

    None taken. I'm just saying the only near miss I have ever had was on a bad stretch of single carriageway road. What we do have the power to do is improve our roads. We can't change the weather, we can't say to ourselves "I won't use that road in case I have a near miss", "I won't drive today in case I have a near miss", "I'll leave 10 seconds earlier so I won't have a near miss".

    I am a huge supporter of building new roads, improved safety being one of the main reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭ black47


    kippy wrote: »
    Kev,
    No offence, but theres lots of ifs and buts that have the potential to change our lives on a daily basis. If you hadnt been on the road nothing would have happened, if you were 10 seconds earlier leaving, if he lost power in his car, if he didnt overtake etc etc....

    I don't think that's quite fair. Better roads with grade separations reduce the amount of accidents. Obviously if you're not on the road nothing can happen but we have to be to get around unfortunately. How many near misses are there every day because of unnecessary dangerous corners such as outside milltown. That stretch of the N17 will sit there for another few years before anything is done. It won't be part of the Gort Tuam PPP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,776 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    I think people may be a little hard on the NRA etc. here. The pics show an apparently smooth, well surfaced road with clear double white lines and clean and clear hazard signage.

    I am deeply sorry for the families of the deceased (my own grandfather was knocked down and killed) but at some point, personal responsibilty has to come into play.

    There are roads like this in Germany/UK/France etc. too. Driver education and road traffic law enforcement are the pits in Ireland.

    People may not like speed cameras but they work here in Germany. German drivers obey the speed limits to a MUCH greater degree than Irish ones. Even Autobahn road work 40km/h limits at night when no works are taking place are pretty rigidly enforced and observed.

    My GF got "blitzed" (they have an actual verb for it) in a 30km/h zone a couple of weeks ago. I was in the passenger seat and just saw the flash. The camera was hidden in an unmarked VW Caddy van and just parked up, running on automatic. This is totally common practice, at least in Berlin/Brandenburg. They also hide cameras in fake wheelie bins if there's a spot they want to target but can't safely park a car up.

    My GF was lucky-she was doing 40km/h, another 5km/h and she'd have gotten 2 points but she escaped with a fine. The German system is graduated-just a bit over the limit is a fine and then depending on the severity of the offence, the points increase until you hit the automatic removal of the licence for 2 months/3months/6months and then I believe if you are doing something reallly crazy like 120km/h in a school zone you'll be banned outright and have to resit the test €€€€ and have to do what the Germans call the "Idiotentest" (The Medizinisch-Psychologisch Untersuchung) which is a psychological exam to see if you are fit to return to the wheel! It is notoriously difficult to pass and very expensive (€500 or so). It alone serves as an incentive not to do stupid things on the roads.

    I find German driving (in the city) to be stress free as you can predict with a great degree of certainty what everyone else will do. Ireland needs to wake up to the real problems and tackle the shocking skills shortage of Irish drivers (Germans MUST learn in the dark as well as during the daytime and I think they also have to learn in the wet, on a skid pan if needs be). There is no such thing as a provisional licence/learner's permit in Germany-you take lessons from official teachers until you can drive alone, whatever that may cost. The test is almost a formality at that stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    In relation to this section of the N17, the point where the accident happened is an almost 90 degree bend, and is particularly dangerous when coming from Sligo (as those poor girls were), as the road dips and bends at the same time.

    Yes, there are hazard warnings, and double-white lines, but I have to agree with other posters:

    1. There should be no accident black-spots. OK, reality says we don't have the money to fix every one, so priorities can be made easily enough. I would suggest accident black spots on high-volume National Primary Routes, such as the N17, should be among the first to be fixed.

    2. Of course, this section of non-hard-shouldered road should be replaced. Which it will be. But that's long-term, unless this terrible accident really will concentrate minds.

    3. Like those in Germany, I have seen speed limit signs on bends in New Zealand, so for example, on a 100Km/h road a bend will have a 35km/h limit in large lettering on it. And as others have said, I think this gives a very good indication of how severe a bend actually is. We are making great strides in road safety in this country, with the numbers killed being way down considering that the numbers of cars and drivers on the roads has gone way up. However, this is one thing that should definitely be done ASAP.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    "Whoever" was at fault is irrelevant. But "Someone" was at fault. We can blame the NRA, County Councils, Government etc. but (and we have to be honest with ourselves here) they are only part of the reason for accidents like this. I know this road and have driven it many times in wet conditions (on one occasion, I'd driven from Dublin to Millstreet, Co. Cork and then on up to Sligo without a rest!- not good) So we must realise that the main fault in accidents like this lies with the quality of driving.

    I agree it wouldn't happen on a wider road or DC, but we cannot build massive roads everywhere in an effort to eliminate bad driving habits. The media have decided to blame the road quality in this particular tragedy, but that is in complete contradiction to its usual stance on driver quality. Its a very sad event, but we must never lose sight of the deplorable standard of driver behaviour in this country. Thats the real killer, not the crappy roads.


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