Mayor of Limerick wants deportation of EU-nationals

PaulieD wrote: »

As far as I am concerned, the Brits owed us. We dont owe anybody a thing, we never colonised any nation.

You're not doing your argument any favours with comments like that.
Cool the jets lads, or I'll lock this thread.

Nearly 100 years ago?
A different era, Paulie.

PaulieD wrote: »

"so, Paulie, let's summarize:
- since Ireland joined the EU, you have received billions of euros for development"

They got free access to our natural resources. Tell me this, what do we owe eastern europeans?

Let's just say we owe them nothing. How much do we owe USA and the EU?
(If you're wondering we owe USA for the Marshall plan and the EU for funding)

PaulieD wrote: »

" Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck
- you have used those friggin imigrants to do all the sorts of jobs, none of you "true Irish people" wanted to do"

Myth. We were well capable of carrying out these jobs ourselves before mass immigration. As a teenager in early 2000s I worked in the largest petrol station in Dublin as a forecourt attendant/ car washer. 90% of the rest of the staff were Irish. Now, a student has little or no chance of picking up a part time job due to mass immigration from eastern europe.

I'm a student and I find most of my friends don't have jobs. They get through college either by the parents giving them weekly pocket money or state funded grants. Those that do have jobs, only have it to repay the car related bills. They'd find that they wouldn't need a job if they just scrapped the car, many of whom don't need. Most of the foreigners I know working in petrol stations treat that job as their full time job.

*For the record, I think foreigners are treated worse than Irish people. I know that when I used to work for a shop any foreignly named person's cv would be tossed in the bin. I think Irish people are preferred now because of the recession, but when times were good people didn't need to take the bad jobs that the foreigners currently have.

PaulieD wrote: »

Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck
- none of the politicians and all regular folks never said anything when billions of euros were pumped back into your Irish economy by 500.000 imigrants (in PRSI, PAYE, rent, bills, etc)


Actually, each and every opinion poll on the subject has shown that the majority of Irish people wanted an end to mass immigration.

Talk to Irish people 25 years ago and they would've said that they would've loved how things are now, considering you can now stay in Ireland and find a job.

*EDIT* I took your comment to mean more than it did. Simple economics means that there will be less of a mass immgration in the future. With less available jobs it means alot of people won't bother coming to Ireland to look for work. We don't want a mass emmigration either though because we still haven't reached the population we once had.

PaulieD wrote: »

Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck
and now, suddenly (years after you should in first place) that it's the Irish system that is pure CRAP, and to have the peace restored you want to get rid of those people, who helped build your beautiful country in last 10 or so years?


Myth. The Celtic Tiger kicked off in 1996. Feck all foreigners around then. The foreigners arrived en mass because of the Celtic Tiger, they didnt cause it. Remember, the eastern europeans arrived in 2005/2006. Without them, the property bubble would have burst much sooner. But Fianna Fail needed it to continue to win the election. Without mass immigration, cheap labour and the property bubble, we would not be in the mess we are in now.

No, but foreign investment caused our Celtic Tiger. Oh and let's not forget this caused a mass increase in population due to mass immgration which helped make our land finally worth something, which in turn made alot of Irish people wealthy. Not to mention the Irish wages has finally stopped drastically increasing, due to competition from the new immigrants for jobs including skilled jobs, and thus companies can be more competitive nd made Ireland more of an attractive place to invest, which in turn attracted more investment from foreign companies, which in turn yada yada yada. All because of foreign investment, and immigration we've kept the boom going.

PaulieD wrote: »

please, grow up. you can moan as much as you can, but we will stay here.

Time will tell. How long do you plan to stay in my country in receipt of handouts?

PaulieD, they have every right to be in this country looking for work as you do. He'll stop taking his entitled handouts when other foreigners stop having to pay Irish taxes.

PaulieD wrote: »

Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck
and if you want to cut any of our entitlements, you need to start with yourselves - we are only a small fracture of all in recepit of any kind of benefits (and I am not mentioning who in this country is the biggest fraud).


20% of dole receipients are foreigners. 33% of those in rent allowance, are foreigners. Remember my earlier link? Foreigners are 800 times more likely to commit child benefit fraud than Irish citizens. If I remember correctly, the dole has to be picked up in the dole shop each week, due to eastern europeans flying in each month to sign on and get the money sent to their bank account each week. Small fraction, indeed.:rolleyes:

Take a look at U2 (I couldn't think of anyone better) and other such high earners. Fair play to them for being that successful, but don't think they don't cheat the system either. They hardly pay any taxes at all and most successful people do it by tax avoidance.

I'd like to hear what your consider foreigners. A person who has lived here for 20 years and recently made redundant? A person who studies here and then goes into work? A person who uses the money to feed their children and send them through school? A person taking dole money and plan on doing nothing with their time? A person who just uses the money to fuel their drinking and drug adictions? or is it a person who is absing the system to make money? These scenarios can be any Irish person, not just foreigners. It's unfair to lump all the foreigners in one basket and blame them. However, it is easier than dealing with actual problems.

Another point, what if these foreigners came over 10 years ago and now has an Irish child. Would that family have to move back or just the child's parents? (I'm presuming you agree with the mayor. I didn't read the whole thread.)

Also, that was what the media outlets fed you. You'll be suprised to learn that Irish people got it transfered to their accounts too while being in a foreign country! :O Truth is the reason this was brought in was for savings. I've two friends would would've gotten the dole straight to their bank account while they were travelling around the world. That rule change now means they can't get it each week.

Tbh, I think the unsourced statistic that you gave just shows how many Irish non nationals get the dole, but it doesn't reflect the contribution some of these people have made to the Irish society.

PaulieD wrote: »

Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck
as long as the "proud Irish nation" can't see it's their own legislation is what causes the problem, people like you and many others will try to find the reason elsewhere.


Mass immigration will be tackled, eventually. The majority can only be silenced for so long. We owe eastern europeans nothing.

The EU owed us nothing, yet helped us.

I really don't want to live in a country if the majority of whom were nothing but racists. (Yes, telling foreigners to go back home because we don't want them here is racist.) Mass immigration will be tackled with mass emmigration eventually due to simple economics, called supply and demand.



Anyone agreeing with the mayor of Limerick, why wouldn't a reduction in the JA/JB and everyone can happily claim and we'd make the savings needed?

PaulieD wrote: »

That was a semi decent post, burial, but then you went and buried yourself by playing the race card. I will get around to responding to the rest tomorrow or during the week. Time for a beve.

I didn't bury myself or any arguement I've made by bringing up "the race card". This "race card" was played by anyone who wants people to go back to their home country, because they aren't Irish. I also don't think that bringing up "the race card" would essentially destroy any point I raised.

PaulieD wrote: »

Just one last thing, this is simply a numbers game. Poland has a population of 38.5 million relatively poor people, these people were given free access to the labour market of a country of 4 million moderately wealthy people.

If this is simply a numbers game (which it isn't), joining the EU was a bad idea due to roughly 500 million people being able to work within this country.

PaulieD wrote: »

In 2003 there were a couple of thousand Polish people in the country, some of them here since the second world war. By 2006 there were a quarter of a million of them, thats the equivalent of the entire Mexican population in the US tripling in three years, an influx of 45 million, never mind the rest of the immigrants arriving to Ireland en masse. What sort of an effect would that have on the US, do you think? There are 15 million undocumented/documented Mexicans in America. Its a major issue at the moment. Triple that number and you would have a bloodbath. Literally. Thats what has just happened in Ireland over the past four/five years, and its been relatively trouble free, until now. People now realise that its simply unsustainable. Thats not racism, my friend. Thats common sense. The numbers need to be culled.

If you are getting rid of people because of their nationality, then it doesn't matter how long they have been here. Then the Polish who have been here since the Second World War would be told to go back to a country they left nearly 60 years ago.

America isn't Ireland and doesn't put it in the same light. Especially since Mexicans have to get visas to work as Mexico isn't part of the USA. An equivalent example might've been people from Hawaii going to work in Denver. As far as I know the EU is completly different than how the USA is structured, so people from Hawaii may need a visa to work or whatnot.

Anyway, taking your example, if there is a market for 45 million Mexicans to enter in the US and that they work there, than that's the market. If there wasn't a market people would go elsewhere. The Celtic Tiger brought alot of people back/to Ireland. This recession is going to make people leave or not come over.

PaulieD wrote: »

I feel that the number of immigrants entering the Irish state should be culled immediately. We could barely absorb them in the good times, and we most certainly cannot afford them now. You can waffle away about NAMA, Anglo Banks, and Bono all you want. Thats not the issue here. Its a strawman at best and just serves to show you have lost the argument.

I haven't lost this arguement, you haven't posted anything I raised. I'll wait to listen to your proper reply of my post so I can respond. I never waffled or mentioned anything about NAMA, Anglo Bank and the only mention of Bono was about U2 (and it was because it was the only example that came to my mind) and how they try to find legal loopholes to not pay tax, thus causing less money to be taken in by the government. I'm not saying it's the sole solution, but it just the mayors suggestion of sending foreigners home doesn't rest well with me when he'd happily accept Irish people to stay here who avoid paying tax in this country. Not to mention, you were talking about Polish people abusing/cheating the system by getting money transferred to their accounts each week even though they don't live in this country. I'm saying Irish people also abuse and cheat the system. Why should foreigners (Namely EU citizens) be kicked out over the Irish, especially one's who cheat/abuse the system?!

PaulieD wrote: »

What we need to do regarding immigration.

-Deport all failed asylum seekers.
-Deport those on dodgy language school visas.
-Deport all illegals. Jail the employer. No employer would touch an illegal then.
-Push for a work permit system to be introduced for citizens of eastern europe ala Germany and Austria.

Thats just for starters. All of the above is perfectly legal.

Deportation is the current stance for all illegals, and I believe there is a huge fine and quite possibly a prison sentence for all those empolyers caught.
I think deporting failed asylum seekers is the norm.
I think Ireland has some restrictions on Romanian and Bulgarian workers working in Ireland, though these are only in place until 2014 I believe. As far as I know I think it's illegal to introduce any work permit for current members of the EU.

As far as I know, the only thing you've mentioned to curb emmigration is the school visas, and I think (not too sure on this please correct me) the regulation behind them is ok. Like you can only get a part time job and you have to attend/do exams if you go against the rules your visa is revoked and you must leave the country within a certain time. And to the best of my knowledge, these people wouldn't be getting the dole and would have to leave after their studies.

PaulieD wrote: »

PPS I would abolish JA and implement a swipe card with x amount each week that can be used for essentials. No booze, no ciggies, no McDonalds. Just the basics. Those on JB paid their stamps, so I would only cut it by 5% but leaving it as a cash benefit. Means test child benefit.

I have no idea what I'd do, but I'd imagine a swipe card would be hard to implement, especially classifing essentials. McDonalds is food and I'm sure they'd object legally for being excluded! What would stop someone buying stuff and returning it straight away for the cash to buy alcohool/cigarettes?! Also, my understanding is that the money people receive for JA is to help them find work by training themselves or giving them enough money to get the required equipment to get them employed again while also providing a bit to live off of. I may be thinking of JA and JB combinded. Sorry that was off topic.

This is Irelands population in graph form:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IrelandRepublicPopulation1841.PNG

As you can see, we as a country, have never recovered from our previous levels due to mainly famines, war and emmigration. Using simple numbers, we are more than capable to take in more people.

*EDIT* Would Irish people who left in 1990, would they be welcome to return to the land they abandoned and claim the dole if they came back in 2009 under your scheme of kicking out foreigners?

sparkysrovers wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl4pj4ck View Post
- you have used those friggin imigrants to do all the sorts of jobs, none of you "true Irish people" wanted to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieD
Myth. We were well capable of carrying out these jobs ourselves before mass immigration. As a teenager in early 2000s I worked in the largest petrol station in Dublin as a forecourt attendant/ car washer. 90% of the rest of the staff were Irish. Now, a student has little or no chance of picking up a part time job due to mass immigration from eastern europe.

sparkysrovers wrote: »

Spot on there Paulie! Was just about to say the exact same thing. Used to work in Tesco and you'd be lucky to find an Irish person (student) working there now. If you ask for something, they dont know or dont understand you and at the best of times all you will get is grunt!

Let's just assume that your right and all foreigners coming over here can't understand English. Why do you think these non-English speaking foreigners are getting jobs over Irish students? (Hint: They won't complain over the slighest thing, won't quit as easy as Irish students, would hardly ever ask for anything above the minimum wage, they have a reputation of being hard-workers, are willing to work better hours than Irish students, won't come into work hungover, they have a reputation for arriving early for work)

Remember it's a market and they're the Irish students competition. They're offering a better service than the Irish students are offering. If you really dislike foreigners fairly getting jobs over Irish students, then don't shop there.

Also, on PaulieD's comment, we were capable to do the jobs but as noted above, we became less competitve. Another factor is people were unwilling to work some jobs. (Cleaners and Binmen are examples)

Niamh_ wrote: »

I am also of the view that foreigners should not be deported but you are burying our argument by making mainly untrue arguments about Irish students.
It's the same as with foreigners, all students are painted with the same brush!

Well I was really answering those that think non-English speaking foreigners are taking all the nice students jobs. It's unfair to brand all students as I did, as it's unfair to blame foreigners for a students lack of employment. However, why are these foreigners successfully gaining employment over students?! (I disagree with saying foreigners taking jobs over Irish students because it assumes students deserve to have a job. Like it's some sort of right)

I worked in Dunnes Stores for about a year before I had to leave to go on work experience for college. I was more impressed with the foreigners that worked there than their Irish counter-parts.

sparkysrovers wrote: »

The foreigners are less likely to stand up to whatever ****e tasks they get put doing and employers know this (seen it in dell/tesco wherever i worked as teenager and early twenties)

I really dont think you know anything about irish students, when I was working in tesco everyone worked hard cos we had to or else we were fired and so what if we came in hungover at least we were able to speak english and at least be friendly to customers. Maybe its just their culture in Eastern Europe but a lot of them are rude and arrogant.

Seen many case of this including on airplanes where its so simple to just say please and thank you but obviously this rule doesnt apply to foreigners!!

In Fairness there are plenty of places in Limerick where being friendly/polite to customers and not being rude does not seem to apply to Irish workers either.

zuroph wrote: »

Feckin students, should all be deported IMO

Deported where, back to our home countries??? Studentia maybe? :rolleyes:

Some valid points raised there (without putting students in the mix) -
If non-Irish workers, some of who can't speak much English, are easily able to get jobs ahead of Irish workers, what does that say about Irish workers? It's not like these non-Irish workers are getting pushed out by refusing lower wages, most of the service industry is operating at Minimum Wage levels.

While I do sometimes get annoyed when I can't communicate with foreign staff in shops, I don't think that an Irish person should be working that job because 1 - they're Irish or 2 - they can't speak good English. There are plenty of Irish workers who couldn't give a fcuk either.