Taoiseach caves in

Jip · 02-12-2009 12:30PM

Bordercat wrote: »

....I know teachers who are planning to give grinds on the days off!!!.............

Do you really ? And do the students also get these days off too to take these grinds ?

lillou · 02-12-2009 12:37PM

Think the whole sector needs to be reformed.

Everyone knows that a job in the civil service is a job for life: its not cut throat like in the private sector where you have to perform or you will be out on your ear.

Because of this there is a lot of deadwood: useless people that are allowed or practically encouraged to be useless.

A friend of mine did work experience in a public health related office and said that there was probably enough work in the office for about 3 people, but there were 10 full time employees.

The contracts they are on don't allow them to be let go when the work isn't there. Or retrained and redeployed somewhere else. Who ever heard of a teacher being fired for being a bit crap?

Obv there are really competent hard working people in the public sector as well who care about their jobs (and get paid the same rate as those who don't give a $hit). Its the system itself that needs reform.

0ubliette · 02-12-2009 12:38PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

I am a support of FF and proud of it

Die.

Blazer · 02-12-2009 12:41PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well how do you think it feels when you work hard at your job and are being paid modestly? Friends I used to work with in the private sector are earning much more than me and doing well in their companies and one in particular is always asking me to send me over his CV. Well I'm so sick of this bullsh*t I'm getting because I work for the public service that I might follow him up on this. You have to realise that there are actually some skilled employees in the public service. We have pretty complex IT systems etc.

What..a few websites that look like they're coded by monkeys?
If you're so sick of the bullsh*t go for the job your mate is promising you..

oh wait..you won't...because you've a cushy number with a guaranteed job for life and a guaranteed pension...
so don't come on here threatening to leave the public sector when you've no intention of doing so.
And I know how the IT depts in the PS work....33 hours weeks...:mad:
christ I'd love a 33 hour week.

damoz · 02-12-2009 12:41PM

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” Martin Luther King Jr

Mr Cowen, please grow a spine and take the decisive action needed to arrest our country from terminal decline.

thatsa spicy · 02-12-2009 12:48PM

damoz wrote: »

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” Martin Luther King Jr

Exactly. It was easy to be a politician in this country when things were good, but as soon as problems start to happen we see how soft their brains have become and how spineless they all really are. Too many years of living the easy life have rendered our politicians incompetent. Which is why I hope history remembers Bertie Ahern's period as Taoiseach in an accurate light.

Haughey was a crook but at least he had the drive about him to get stuff done; in the present circumstances he would have told the unions to take a 10% cut or f off.

Eoin · 02-12-2009 12:48PM

Victor_M wrote: »

So even if 10 days forced time off was a 7% pay bill reduction per annum (which it isn't), there is no way that it's going to translate into the equivalent of a 7% pay cut that's for sure, between overtime to replace them, time in lieu, stretching it over 5 years, whatever, I'd be amazed if it resulted in a 2% pay bill reduction!

2 weeks = 10 days
52x5 = 260 working days per year

10 days is 3.84% of 260, you lot are talking through your backsides.

260 weekdays a year - take away 20 days annual leave, and 10 or so public holidays a year, and it's 230. That's now closer to 5%, and I have no idea what PRSI savings there would also be.

It is a load of bollocks though - they're not going to work harder to make up for the extra time off, Joe Public will just have to deal with an even more inefficient public service.

BraziliaNZ wrote:

Well I'm so sick of this bullsh*t I'm getting because I work for the public service that I might follow him up on this

Good luck with that, just remember to do the maths on how much you'll have to put into a normal pension fund to match what you're on now, and put some more money away in case you lose your job suddenly.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 02-12-2009 12:52PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Die.

Less of that, please.

BraziliaNZ · 02-12-2009 12:54PM

Berkut wrote: »

And I know how the IT depts in the PS work....33 hours weeks...:mad:
christ I'd love a 33 hour week.

So I only work a 33 hour week?

ixoy · 02-12-2009 01:03PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So I only work a 33 hour week?

Well isn't it a 34hr 45min week at minimum?

What would you prefer - cutting the deadwood? For any crap EO who has served 7 years or so, you could save 42k. I could save 200k just given 5 minutes and 5 P45 forms and nobody would notice...

mink_man · 02-12-2009 01:05PM

SoWatchaWant wrote: »

Me and a couple of lads are going to throw a brick through his window.

nice

glynn888 · 02-12-2009 01:06PM

is there anybody out there in the real world that could speak to biffo and his buddies in ff and let them know what the ordinary people of this country think. we cant all be employed by the cs-ps. To cave in to these shower of bullies is economic treason on a grand scale . we need real leadership not the whimpish bottling out to another self interest protected species .
more nurses , teachers , gardai heading off on holidays is not what we need WE urgently need a dictator stlye leader to sack most of these waster cs-ps employees and disband their unions .

BraziliaNZ · 02-12-2009 01:07PM

ixoy wrote: »

Well isn't it a 34hr 45min week at minimum?

What would you prefer - cutting the deadwood? For any crap EO who has served 7 years or so, you could save 42k. I could save 200k just given 5 minutes and 5 P45 forms and nobody would notice...

37.5 hours a week where I am anyway, I'm not sure if it varies.
Anyway I can't really defend myself much more, I don't want to go into specifics about what I actually do or what dept we work for but we're quite efficient here and the money we take in for our services by far outpays our wage bill here. I'm done arguing.

egan007 · 02-12-2009 01:09PM

Does this mean Brian Cowan has to take 2 weeks unpaid leave in Hawaii

5starpool · 02-12-2009 01:12PM

eoin wrote: »

260 weekdays a year - take away 20 days annual leave, and 10 or so public holidays a year, and it's 230. That's now closer to 5%, and I have no idea what PRSI savings there would also be.

You get paid for public holidays and annual leave days though, so you can't take those away from the total for calculation purposes.

MizzLolly · 02-12-2009 01:14PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

37.5 hours a week where I am anyway, I'm not sure if it varies.
Anyway I can't really defend myself much more, I don't want to go into specifics about what I actually do or what dept we work for but we're quite efficient here and the money we take in for our services by far outpays our wage bill here. I'm done arguing.

Fair play to you for keeping your cool for this long. After the first few snipes at you by posters here I was expecting you to freak out. I know I'd have found it hard not to. I'm a bit surprised really that so many comments were left to be specifically aimed at you. Crazy stuff! :rolleyes:

Lord Trollington · 02-12-2009 01:24PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

Fair play to you for keeping your cool for this long. After the first few snipes at you by posters here I was expecting you to freak out. I know I'd have found it hard not to. I'm a bit surprised really that so many comments were left to be specifically aimed at you. Crazy stuff! :rolleyes:

Get a room

channelsurfer · 02-12-2009 01:25PM

Victor_M wrote: »

I call bull$hit on that one! You civil servants are as bad at maths as you are out of touch with financial reality!

From the newspaper -

So even if 10 days forced time off was a 7% pay bill reduction per annum (which it isn't), there is no way that it's going to translate into the equivalent of a 7% pay cut that's for sure, between overtime to replace them, time in lieu, stretching it over 5 years, whatever, I'd be amazed if it resulted in a 2% pay bill reduction!

2 weeks = 10 days
52x5 = 260 working days per year

10 days is 3.84% of 260, you lot are talking through your backsides.

the CS actually counts sat and sunday so its 14days if you are paid fortnightly... so 10 days is 2.7% of 365 days... I am open to correction on this if I am wrong......

LK_Dave · 02-12-2009 01:28PM

If the unions and the public sector workers really cared about this country/jobs....instead of unpaid time off, why not work unpaid for these days? When the economy does right itself at least they will have the moral authority to boast that they were a pillar of the economic upturn.
Oh maybe I’m being naive that the unions or public workers give a feck for this country so long as their salaries are protected!!

BraziliaNZ · 02-12-2009 01:30PM

LK_Dave wrote: »

If the unions and the public sector workers really cared about this country/jobs....instead of unpaid time off, why not work unpaid for these days?

Or just call it a paycut. Yeah I was waiting for a paycut of 7%ish and didn't have a problem with it as long as the higher your grade went up the more you were losing. But what can I do now, it's the governments fault not ordinary decent workers like myself.

MizzLolly · 02-12-2009 01:33PM

whycliff wrote: »

Get a room

You think it was fair that s/he had that many comments posted to her/him?

opinion guy · 02-12-2009 01:39PM

00sully wrote: »

depressing stuff. no faith in our leadership anymore (as it was, it was seriously waning)

A sliding scale reduction starting at 20% down to 2% was an overly obvious god damn part solution to this mess.

thats the end of FF for me.

Wait, wait, wait. THIS is what puts you off FF ? Not the mismanagement of the economy in the first place, not the systematic destruction of the Health Service (for thats what it is), not the corruption and the backhanders, not the refusal to take responsiblity for any of it, but a public sector paycut thats not as big as you want it to be puts you off FF ? No wonder the country is in this state.

Berkut wrote: »

What..a few websites that look like they're coded by monkeys?
If you're so sick of the bullsh*t go for the job your mate is promising you..

oh wait..you won't...because you've a cushy number with a guaranteed job for life and a guaranteed pension...
so don't come on here threatening to leave the public sector when you've no intention of doing so.
And I know how the IT depts in the PS work....33 hours weeks...:mad:
christ I'd love a 33 hour week.

Why are you personally attacking this other poster with such ridiculous claims ? What did he do to you ?

Odysseus · 02-12-2009 01:41PM

LK_Dave wrote: »

If the unions and the public sector workers really cared about this country/jobs....instead of unpaid time off, why not work unpaid for these days? When the economy does right itself at least they will have the moral authority to boast that they were a pillar of the economic upturn.
Oh maybe I’m being naive that the unions or public workers give a feck for this country so long as their salaries are protected!!

I would be somewhat open to that idea, I do voluntary stuff as it is. However, then I read threads like this and think if that is peoples attitude I find something else to do on these "forced" days off.

Lord Trollington · 02-12-2009 01:59PM

MizzLolly wrote: »

You think it was fair that s/he had that many comments posted to her/him?

S/he shouldn't leave his hands out to be slapped.

He came on here and Openly admitted that he works in the public sector as a Civil Servent.

At the moment, public sector workers aren't high on the christmas card list for the normal joe.Its to be expected.

If i came on here in the heat of the discussion about NAMA and said i was anything to do with the Banks i would have expected the same.

Instead of getting a room, maybe you could use the storage area's for the e-voting machines save a little money in the current climate!

To The North · 02-12-2009 03:12PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Wait, wait, wait. THIS is what puts you off FF ? Not the mismanagement of the economy in the first place, not the systematic destruction of the Health Service (for thats what it is), not the corruption and the backhanders, not the refusal to take responsiblity for any of it, but a public sector paycut thats not as big as you want it to be puts you off FF ? No wonder the country is in this state.

this is very first thing that occured to me when reading the original post, why on earth would you still support FF after what they've driven this country to??

let's rememeber that it's FFs fault that this country is in this dire state and it's them you should have lost faith in, not the public sector workers.

my own thinking is that if the situation is as dire as what they would have us believe then there is no way that cowen would agree to what's curently being dicussed, it wouldn't make any sense, as much as i dislike him and his party he is not stupid enough to do something that would really worsen the state this country is in.

zoemax · 02-12-2009 03:31PM

To all of the private sector workers whinging on this thread - tough ****. If the public sector is such a cushy number why didn't you get a job there during the boom times.......but then why would you have, you were making more money in the private sector (I know I was). My heart bleeds for you. I'm not going to apologise to anyone for my salary or working conditions, particularly those responsible for some of the more moronic posts on this thread (I love the private sector IT systems are more complex then public sector ones argument - doesn't really matter, you're all IT nerds).

I actually think that the government should have just implemented a 7% pay cut across the board, that's what I was expecting and that would have been the end of it. Now we have an unworkable situation that will have to be revisited again leading to more strikes and the same crap we've had to listen to from the unions for the last few months. The only good thing about this 'solution' is that it might give some breathing space to the government so that a wave of compulsory redundancies in the public sector can be implemented.

Fuhrer · 02-12-2009 03:53PM

To The North wrote: »

let's rememeber that it's FFs fault that this country is in this dire state and it's them you should have lost faith in, not the public sector workers.

Fianna Fail Fianna Fail Fianna Fail

Can the PS change the record please?

We arent buying into the "Oh, the government are just trying to pit the private sector against the public sector" No, the private sector are against the public sector because they insist on utterly selfish, offensive and undeserved working conditions for themselves and suggest that if they should have a cut then everyone else should have a cut as well.

Fuhrer · 02-12-2009 03:54PM

zoemax wrote: »

To all of the private sector workers whinging on this thread - tough ****. If the public sector is such a cushy number why didn't you get a job there during the boom times

Theres money to be made in Drug dealing and prostitution also.

Its just that some of us have some self respect.

Ally Dick · 02-12-2009 03:57PM

Bertie + benchmarking = the cause of all the trouble

douglashyde · 02-12-2009 03:59PM

Consider this:

The Public sector has secure jobs.

The Public sector has very generous pension schemes.

The Public sector earns more money for the job they do.

The Public sector is badly managed and hugely under performs for the budget it has.

The government considered this and deemed it necessary to make the public sector more cost effective and efficient.

The public sector responded to this by striking.

Today THEY WON!

My conclusion:
The Unions and the public sector workers that voted to strike are Greedy, out of touch and inconsiderate human beings.

The public sector and unions have done something that I believe will be extremely destructive, not just economically but socially.

Now consider this, there are more and more indications that the private sector(the entire country minus the Public Sector) are red hot angry about the Public sector's choice of strike , however the private sector has no unions to strike for it, it has no interest group, so what does it do?

It Riots.

I was until today a FF supporter. Today I don’t know who to support.

Taoiseach caves in

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