Taoiseach caves in

Rebelheart

Lexus1976 wrote: »

What a fecking wimp!!!! I am a support of FF and proud of it, but will not be voting for them again if Cowan is in the party. :mad:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-caves-in-on-public-sector-pay-1960583.html

Ireland will not be making an economic recovery for a long long time. Cowan for muppet of the year.

I have to say that Danny McCoy of IBEC made an awful, awful amount of sense on Morning Ireland this morning. It was a masterpiece.

http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

Fuhrer

Biggins wrote: »

There is no love of the man from me - in any shape or form.
I still can't believe that they erected a statue to him in one west port!
Charlie was an utter crook - BUT - the one thing he did possess just one thing that some considered an asset, and that was he was strong and willing to get something done and refused totally to be bullied.

He couldnt stand to think that anyone else was going to be able to rob the country as much as he was.

folan

Biggins wrote: »

There is no love of the man from me - in any shape or form.
I still can't believe that they erected a statue to him in one west port!
Charlie was an utter crook (..and he taught his then finance minister well! O' wait, that was Ahern. There's a surprise! :rolleyes: ) - BUT - the one thing he did possess just one thing that some considered an asset, and that was he was strong and willing to get something done and refused totally to be bullied.

Agreed! Its that people like you and I are even making this concession in relation to the latest government that shows how dire the situation is. Its scary, where tis country has come!

Biggins

Fuhrer wrote: »

He couldnt stand to think that anyone else was going to be able to rob the country as much as he was.

LOL Blommin' true! :pac:

BraziliaNZ

kincsem wrote: »

Do not worry. When staff take time off other public sector workers will supply cover at the standard overtime rates.

Cut one hour, pay an hour and a half to cover.

This just shows the TOTAL LACK OF KNOWLEDGE people are spouting these days. Do you really think this happens?

And I've heard people say that public servants will just use the unpaid leave during the year and then get paid for the normal holiday days at the end of the year instead of using them.

Now I know how refugees feel in Ireland with all the bullsh*t being spouted about how much free stuff they get.

Fly1

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

i don't know, I am civil service not Garda.
Here's what bugs me - when people come on here moaning about how they can only work 4 day weeks now etc in the private sector, now that we have to do something similar you're saying it's just more holidays for us? Why is it different for us??

Plain and simple: private sector workers get fired. Pulic sector workers get more holidays while their colleagues get more overtime (or create even bigger backlogs while on teabreaks)... Shocking. Fire them all. Especially Cowan.

enda1

Fly1 wrote: »

Plain and simple: private sector workers get fired. Pulic sector workers get more holidays while their colleagues get more overtime (or create even bigger backlogs while on teabreaks)... Shocking. Fire them all. Especially Cowan.

I'm a private sector worker and got 16 days unpaid leave this year. No one in the company got fired either.

BraziliaNZ

Fly1 wrote: »

Plain and simple: private sector workers get fired. Pulic sector workers get more holidays while their colleagues get more overtime (or create even bigger backlogs while on teabreaks)... Shocking. Fire them all. Especially Cowan.

Overtime hasn't been available in my Dept for the last couple of years. How will that apply to us? Where do you get all this info from?

Jesus Wept

Thread disappoints, I took the thread title literally.

neilthefunkeone

Yeah bit of a joke really.. They needed to step up to the plate on this one but have failed miserably..

So where will they make up the rest of the money they said they needed?

BraziliaNZ

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Yeah bit of a joke really.. They needed to step up to the plate on this one but have failed miserably..

So where will they make up the rest of the money they said they needed?

Doesn't this cut the wage bill by about 7%? I'm sure there will be more cuts next year too.

Jip

enda1 wrote: »

I'm a private sector worker and got 16 days unpaid leave this year. No one in the company got fired either.

You work in the private section ? I don't know how to break this to you but there's a couple of million more people than you in the private sector.

ixoy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

So they have cut costs and saved 7%, and kept the unions happy. It just means people will have to deal with their workload when they come back.
How is this such a defeat for the taxpayer?

Because nobody believes that people will actually work to make up the difference. Certainly we've had PS/CS workers on here saying they had no intention of working any extra time to catch up on a workload created by unpaid leave. Therefore services will suffer - that's a bit of a defeat.

There's also the fact that there's no mention of actual reform yet (in fact we're taking a step backwards here it would seem) or how we'll make up the difference between government estimates of the savings and those actually needed - those extra funds will come from everybody else.

Don't forget even with the pension levy, the government still did a little bit of caving when they altered pension contributions at a cost of €100m for next year in April's budget.

enda1

Jip wrote: »

You work in the private section ? I don't know how to break this to you but there's a couple of million more people than you in the private sector.

Huh?

nietzy

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Yeah bit of a joke really.. They needed to step up to the plate on this one but have failed miserably..

So where will they make up the rest of the money they said they needed?

Obviously by increasing tax (either stealth or direct), cutting public services and increasing duties on alcohol, ciggys, etc. Also watch out for this carbon tax.

I agree wit the guy from the public service who said he knows how refugees feel with the amount of ****e information being put around by some people here.

But the fact remains, our public services are ****e and needed a kick up the arse, and instead, Cowens given them a few days off.

Long live Fianna Fail, they'll lose the next election but come back stronger again.

hazardous

So let me get this straight, the unions in pushing this policy have implied that there is either excess capacity within the Public Sector system (and it can function effectively with less people), or that they want to stretch our over-stretched PS services even further. I'd have thought that the Frontline Alliance would have been up in arms over this ??!... :rolleyes:

And an essentially proportional cut from the same group who are organising witch hunts for the "fat cats" and looking for a new tax band for the "super rich"...hmm. I'm sure that if Maggie weren't currently batsh!t insane she'd have a good old laugh at the unions essentially endorsing her poll tax ideology.

This has done no good for anyone in this country, apart from those who dreamt up this half assed plan.

BraziliaNZ

ixoy wrote: »

Because nobody believes that people will actually work to make up the difference.

Well how do you think it feels when you work hard at your job and are being paid modestly? Friends I used to work with in the private sector are earning much more than me and doing well in their companies and one in particular is always asking me to send me over his CV. Well I'm so sick of this bullsh*t I'm getting because I work for the public service that I might follow him up on this. You have to realise that there are actually some skilled employees in the public service. We have pretty complex IT systems etc.

damoz

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well how do you think it feels when you work hard at your job and are being paid modestly? Friends I used to work with in the private sector are earning much more than me and doing well in their companies and one in particular is always asking me to send me over his CV. Well I'm so sick of this bullsh*t I'm getting because I work for the public service that I might follow him up on this. You have to realise that there are actually some skilled employees in the public service. We have pretty complex IT systems etc.

Just curious ... are you in "work" now?

BraziliaNZ

damoz wrote: »

Just curious ... are you in "work" now?

nope, supposed to be studying for exams next month, I'm on normal holiday days if you must know this week

Pal

disgraceful.

Always voted FF but that's just about enough of this crap for me.

Not voting for FF or that shower of incompetent gobsh1tes The Greens next time.
Time for a change.

Blanchguy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

You have to realise that there are actually some skilled employees in the public service. We have pretty complex IT systems etc.

Are you working on PPARS, Pulse or e-voting?

CreepingDeath

Fecken Fianna Fail are implementing a scorched earth policy... if they can't run the country then they'll ruin it before handing it over to someone else.

We should build a gallows and hang them all in the grounds of Leinster house as a warning to others.

BraziliaNZ

Blanchguy wrote: »

Are you working on PPARS, Pulse or e-voting?

I don't know what department or minister was responsible for the e-voting thing but this just shows how you are tarring us all with the same brush. Now every political mistake is being used at mud to throw at the public service.
I don't know what PPARS or Pulse are.

Victor_M

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

There's no such thing as overtime in the civil service these days anyway. I for one have to come in on Saturdays sometimes and don't get paid any extra for it, but someone has to do it.
People having to take 2 weeks off unpaid amounts to something like a 7% cut in the wage bill.
So they have cut costs and saved 7%, and kept the unions happy. It just means people will have to deal with their workload when they come back.
How is this such a defeat for the taxpayer?

I call bull$hit on that one! You civil servants are as bad at maths as you are out of touch with financial reality!

From the newspaper -

It is understood that proposals are being examined that may allow workers in essential services to stagger their unpaid leave over a number of years.

So even if 10 days forced time off was a 7% pay bill reduction per annum (which it isn't), there is no way that it's going to translate into the equivalent of a 7% pay cut that's for sure, between overtime to replace them, time in lieu, stretching it over 5 years, whatever, I'd be amazed if it resulted in a 2% pay bill reduction!

2 weeks = 10 days
52x5 = 260 working days per year

10 days is 3.84% of 260, you lot are talking through your backsides.

BraziliaNZ

Victor_M wrote: »

I call bull$hit on that one! You civil servants are as bad at maths as you are out of touch with financial reality!

From the newspaper -

So even if 10 days forced time off was a 7% pay bill reduction per annum (which it isn't), there is no way that it's going to translate into the equivalent of a 7% pay cut that's for sure, between overtime to replace them, time in lieu, stretching it over 5 years, whatever, I'd be amazed if it resulted in a 2% pay bill reduction!

2 weeks = 10 days
52x5 = 260 working days per year

10 days is 3.84% of 260, you lot are talking through your backsides.

Well I heard or read somewhere that it would equate to a 7% reduction. We're just as much in the dark on this as you are believe me. Anyway I can't really argue with people on this subject because people wont be happy until half the workforce is gone and half our wages are gone. It's lose-lose really. Should I just request a 30% paycut? Or resign and work in private sector?

ixoy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Well how do you think it feels when you work hard at your job and are being paid modestly? Friends I used to work with in the private sector are earning much more than me and doing well in their companies and one in particular is always asking me to send me over his CV.

Actually I am paid modestly - as are all my friends in the IT private sector. As an aside, I've found that many IT jobs are paid equivalently (or less) than their European counterparts here with none of the "we're in Ireland, it costs more" supplement.

You have to realise that there are actually some skilled employees in the public service. We have pretty complex IT systems etc.

I know very well there are skilled employees - I've worked with them! It's why I've always been in favour of reform so they're kept on and the idiot who reads Wikipedia and the Metro goes instead (and I've actual people in mind when I write that).

As to complex IT systems being used, I've a fair idea (to say the least).

Mr Goon

Fuhrer wrote: »

"Things were so much better under Fianna Fail, when we were in dire financial straits and every economist said we would have to take a pay cut we just stamped our feet and cried and they gave us another 20 days off work to sit at home and throw our toys out of our prams"

Eh, it's 12 days and its UNPAID! I agree that its a silly idea, but its not as if our wages won't be cut.

If you want to argue how it should be cut, feel free, but at least acknowledge that it is a cut in pay.

General Zod

so instead of saving €1.3b we're saving €1b.

rabble rabble rabble.

00sully

depressing stuff. no faith in our leadership anymore (as it was, it was seriously waning)

A sliding scale reduction starting at 20% down to 2% was an overly obvious god damn part solution to this mess.

thats the end of FF for me.

Bordercat

....I know teachers who are planning to give grinds on the days off!!!.............