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Mayor of Limerick wants deportation of EU-nationals

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    #32
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    Hi Lads,

    I am in agreement with the mayor but maybe not to his strict terms. People who aren't irish nationals and don't have a settled family should be encouraged to go home instead of being on the dole etc. Maybe after 6 months? The government want to cut Irish workers pay etc. and also need to reduce the expenditure due to the live register so why not start by cutting out people who arent even irish citizens? Obviously people who work here, are naturalised citizens or have an established family here are perfectly entitled to live here as they wish, but people who are milking the country for benefits should be asked to leave!

    If one of us went to the states or Australia, do you think they would allow us to live off of their social welfare? Just to point out, I am very good friends with many foreign people here and they all work for a living, but there are some who dont want to do anything and scrounge off the dole(Ive witnessed this myself)


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    #33
    neil_purdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭neil_purdy


    Not the worst thing.. When i was going to Canada i had to sign a form stating i would not be a burden to the country, if i failed to secure employment i couldnt claim help and would be removed...

    Canada is not as far up sh*t creek as we are!!!


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    #34
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    A lot of people are afraid to comment on issues such as this for fear of being called a racist. His remarks aren't in the slightest racist. At least someone is thinking using their heads instead of their arses.

    I'm sure that if France or the UK were in as much trouble as us then they would think of something similiar


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    #35
    Rujib1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭Rujib1


    The mayor of Limerick would be better served deporting a certain section of the natives of that city, than the foreigners most of whom actually obey the law, work and pay a few bob in taxes.

    R1


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    #36
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    if only we could deport some of our own....:rolleyes:


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    #37
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    Hi Lads,

    I am in agreement with the mayor but maybe not to his strict terms. People who aren't irish nationals and don't have a settled family should be encouraged to go home instead of being on the dole etc. Maybe after 6 months? The government want to cut Irish workers pay etc. and also need to reduce the expenditure due to the live register so why not start by cutting out people who arent even irish citizens? Obviously people who work here, are naturalised citizens or have an established family here are perfectly entitled to live here as they wish, but people who are milking the country for benefits should be asked to leave!

    If one of us went to the states or Australia, do you think they would allow us to live off of their social welfare? Just to point out, I am very good friends with many foreign people here and they all work for a living, but there are some who dont want to do anything and scrounge off the dole(Ive witnessed this myself)

    You don't have a clue what are you talking about.

    To all people that supports mayor's idea, I will ask once again. Name one benefit that people coming from abroad are entitled to straight after crossing the border.

    He's lack of understanding how Irish Social Welfare system works is a disgrace.


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    #38
    neil_purdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭neil_purdy


    Rujib1 wrote: »
    the foreigners most of whom actually obey the law, work and pay a few bob in taxes.

    Its not the working ones he is concerned about.. Its the non working, dole receiving few...


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    #39
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    You don't have a clue what are you talking about.

    To all people that supports mayor's idea, I will ask once again. Name one benefit that people coming from abroad are entitled to straight after crossing the border.

    He's lack of understanding how Irish Social Welfare system works is a disgrace.

    Who said anything about them getting benefit directly after coming here? The minute dell packed up a lot of foreigners found themselves either going to Poland or on the dole, not even trying to get a new job so excuse me now, don't you dare question my knowledge of my own country


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    #40
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    Who said anything about them getting benefit directly after coming here? The minute dell packed up a lot of foreigners found themselves either going to Poland or on the dole, not even trying to get a new job so excuse me now, don't you dare question my knowledge of my own country

    In other words, what you say is: "Let's keep them here as long as they keep pumping our pockets, and when we don't need them anymore, force them go home.". Is that what you say?

    The only foreign people that are entitled to get any benefits here are people who earned it working here for at least two years. And no matter what you or other ignorants like the mayor says, you cannot take this away.


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    #41
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    I don't recall any thread from 2005/2006 expressing anger that we were collecting PRSI from foreign people!!!:D I don't rem any statement from Kiely then?

    It's simple: If people from new member states have paid into social insurance when working, they are entitled to a payout when not working.

    Limerick city's future is dependent on foreign influx - both capital and labour. Xenophobia is the road back to the 1950s.


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    #42
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    aftermn wrote: »
    Hey

    if you have worked and paid your dues here, welcome.

    Don't listen to the downers.

    But for everyone, money is short and we have to be careful to use it fairly. Government money is also scarce and has to be used carefully. Please, my Irish brothers, accept that our immigrants who contribute are just that, contributors. They are deserving of our support as they have supported us throughout their working time here. We have rules, stick by them. Give where it is due, but also our immigrants must accept that we refuse those outside the rules.



    Would agree with this poster.

    If a person has or is working here, and is paying taxes, both off of their wages, and through buying food, petrol etc here, then in my eyes they have as much right to social welfare if they lose their job as an Irish person with the same amount of tax paid.

    I do think that anyone who comes to this country and that does not work at all, should not be given any sort of welfare though, and that Ireland/ the EU should have a similar policy to Australia in terms of how people are checked in order to be let come live/work here.


    There is a poster who said that when Dell let people go that all the "foreigners" either went home or on the dole , and did not even try to get another job. Well that is a stupid comment because plenty of Irish workers who were let go by Dell went on the dole and have not gone looking for new jobs either.

    The non nationals who worked in Dell have done their bit when they had jobs. By working they gave taxes back to the government. They paid rent in this country, and by buying food or whatever else, they helped keep local shops going too. So why should those people get any less when they find themselves out of work?


    Maybe Mayor Kiely should look to have any companies that are not Irish taking from Limerick too. All his comments smack of are those of a poorly informed man, and he is quite typical of the insular thinking people that seem to become politicians in this country.


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    #43
    arch_stanton
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭arch_stanton


    Mr. Kiely is an ignorant fool with obviously little grasp of the social welfare system and EU rules. The most basic principles of the EU are the free movement of goods and people. Ireland can sell it's products freely to any other member state and Irish people can live and work where they wish. In turn we accept that other EU states can sell to us and their citizens are entitled to live and work in Ireland. If Mr. Kiely disagrees with this then he is advocating that we leave the EU. Imagine where that would leave us.

    "Throw out the foreigners" politicians need to remember that this works both ways. There are probably more Irish working abroad than there are foreigners in Ireland. What about Irish born pensioners in London who have worked all their lives there and are now drawing a UK pension. Should they be kicked out?

    I'm Irish and have been living in Spain for 10 years. There are 12 other Irish working in the same office as me. I've paid my taxes here like anyone else. If we lost our jobs tomorrow we would get the same unemployment benefit as the spanish. Is he suggesting that we should be shipped back to Dublin on the next available Iberia flight.

    Maybe he should take a look at how they do it here. You get unemployment benefit for up to two years and after that you're on your own. Apply that to the useless scroungers all over Ireland who have never worked a day in their lives and you'll fill half the hole in the budget right there.


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    #44
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I do think that anyone who comes to this country and that does not work at all, should not be given any sort of welfare though, [...]

    none of the people coming to the country are entitled to any welfare before they made enough contributions themselves. on the other hand, if you are borned in Ireland (and this is regardless of your parents' nationality) you are entitled to get many benefits, including JSA/JSB straight after finishing education.

    this year the government slashed the dole for under 20s afair, I think next step should be to look into cases of those, who has never been working and sit down on a dole for years not trying to secure any employment. I bet there's more families living on claiming different allowances than those trying to find 'loopholes' in the beloved and ideal Irish social welfare system

    people seem this coming for years, but politicians tend not to take any 'risky' actions until it's too late. if this has been looked into 2-3 years ago and the system fixed at that stage, maybe today the Irish economy wouln't be loosing 500mln euro every week


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    #45
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    In other words, what you say is: "Let's keep them here as long as they keep pumping our pockets, and when we don't need them anymore, force them go home.". Is that what you say?

    The only foreign people that are entitled to get any benefits here are people who earned it working here for at least two years. And no matter what you or other ignorants like the mayor says, you cannot take this away.

    yes I understand that people who have worked have contributed and therefore are entitled to benefit for a specified time. I'm talking about those who are in receipt of social welfare long after their contribution has been used to to provide them with the dole. Why should we provide years of social welfare to non nationals if they have only worked here for a year or less? and this sadly is the case.

    How would like it if Roma people from Romania worked for a few months and then claimed social welfare from the polish government? I know for a fact you wouldntI][B]don't[/B][/I like that...

    Would you like it if I went to Poland and worked for 6 months and claimed social welfare for another 6 months after that? doesnt make sense to support something like that.


    Ive been working since I was 15 and only stopped for either classes in school or lectures in college(worked part time through education) and also I started a job a day after I finished my last exam in college, and I am 100% not satisfied that my PAYE also goes towards paying lazy foreigners (and no im not forgetting lazy irish people). And there are also plenty of African people who get ridiculous benefits from our government! taxi vouchers houses, the whole lot! get a grip and find out whats going on in our country before you slate our people


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    #46
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,474 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Healthy debate is great, racist comments are not.
    Thread cleaned up for the second time this morning.
    I'm not doing it again - last warning.


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    #47
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    Would you like it if I went to Poland and worked for 6 months and claimed social welfare for another 6 months after that? doesnt make sense to support something like that

    It's the flawed system that is in use in here you all should blame. As for how it works in Poland, you are only allowed to get the JSB for a year after you become unemployed.

    If you find another job, and pay enough contributions again you will be entitled to the JSB. If you fail to do so, you will see no money coming from the state, and be let alone on your own.

    I have nothing against implementing same system in here. But can you name a politician that would sacrifice himself and their career to suggest that? Shortly we would see thousands of people on the streets protesting against it (vide last weeks protests of the public sector workers all around the country). Thousands of people that have never worked and don't have any intention to, and instead of that they prefer to live on the dole for their whole life.


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    #48
    daveyboy_1ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭daveyboy_1ie


    aftermn wrote: »
    Anyone who actually worked and paid taxes here should have the same benefits as the rest of us

    My biggest problem with the whole system is that when an Irish person is signing on they are told nowt, except the bare minimum and after signing play the waiting game. However non nationals are taken aside, told what they can claim (including extras on top of basic) and also talking amongst themselves pretty much can be VERY comfortable. No other state does this and its time the sytem is cleaned up. Any attemts to clean it up though are met by the human rights brigade will be up in arms calling it racist, even though the same rules apply to all nationals. The world has gone PC mad.

    Its expected that politicians get their two cents in, especially when they know they are appealing to the masses by saying things like this. Thats the way the politics game works, all publicity is good publicity.


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    #49
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    It's the flawed system that is in use in here you all should blame. As for how it works in Poland, you are only allowed to get the JSB for a year after you become unemployed.

    If you find another job, and pay enough contributions again you will be entitled to the JSB. If you fail to do so, you will see no money coming from the state, and be let alone on your own.

    I have nothing against implementing same system in here. But can you name a politician that would sacrifice himself and their career to suggest that? Shortly we would see thousands of people on the streets protesting against it (vide last weeks protests of the public sector workers all around the country). Thousands of people that have never worked and don't have any intention to, and instead of that they prefer to live on the dole for their whole life.

    Well Id say Mr Kevin Kiely there has the balls to say it. TBH im sick of these f*cking morons protesting about every little effort made to get the country back on track. 90% of the people arguing against suggestions like these aren't bloody financiers so how would they know what they are talking about? Ireland is f*cked as a country at the moment anyway. Maybe we should bring in a similiar system for EVERYONE so, and force some of those lazy irish people as well as lazy foreigners to either get a job or get out of the country!


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    #50
    Stab*City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Stab*City


    Its a shame that things have come to this.. Why pick on the non nationals when our own Irish people are claiming the same benefits in other countries.. Christ the Irish were claiming 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 doles for the same person back in the day in the UK long before a non national ever came to this city!

    Alot of the people we are talking about actually now have irish children and partners.. so do we just kick them out now that there are no jobs to generate tax revenue to line the mayors pocket? Lets hope other countries dont take his advice as we could have a population of around 20 million if the US, UK, Germany, France, Australia, Spain and any other countries where we have laid our hats decided to kick us out!!! This would be a disaster as there are only 5 job vacancies outside Dublin!! Imagine the Social Welfare expenditure then!!

    Between this and his comments regarding unemployed people as a second class i think the mayor should keep his mouth on lockdown for a bit and if he really wants to be in the paper that much hell get out his ladder and go set the right time at tates clock!! (Im sure he would make front page:D)


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    #51
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    daveyboy_1ie wrote: »
    My biggest problem with the whole system is that when an Irish person is signing on they are told nowt, except the bare minimum and after signing play the waiting game. However non nationals are taken aside, told what they can claim (including extras on top of basic) and also talking amongst themselves pretty much can be VERY comfortable. No other state does this and its time the sytem is cleaned up. Any attemts to clean it up though are met by the human rights brigade will be up in arms calling it racist, even though the same rules apply to all nationals. The world has gone PC mad..

    so you want to cut the benefits for everyone apart from Irish, is that right?
    this is exactly the definition of the racism.

    if you don't know too much of the social welfare system in Ireland, go to the nearest Citizens Information bureau, do you thing we have been born with all that knowledge? No, we have learned it the hard way. And you blame us for taking from the state money and other entitlements we are allowed to?


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    #52
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    Well Id say Mr Kevin Kiely there has the balls to say it.

    balls? he throwed a rock at people he knows wouldnt throw back. he's a coward. people of Limerick deserves better.


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    #53
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    balls? he throwed a rock at people he knows wouldnt throw back. he's a coward. people of Limerick deserves better.

    to be honest, most irish politicians are gowls anyway so theyll only jump on the first bandwagon they see to take another down a notch. Id be 100% for the removal of dole for those who dont get a job within a year, irish or otherwise. Id like to keep or cultural diversity in Limerick


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    #54
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    daveyboy_1ie wrote: »
    My biggest problem with the whole system is that when an Irish person is signing on they are told nowt, except the bare minimum and after signing play the waiting game. However non nationals are taken aside, told what they can claim (including extras on top of basic) and also talking amongst themselves pretty much can be VERY comfortable. No other state does this and its time the sytem is cleaned up. Any attemts to clean it up though are met by the human rights brigade will be up in arms calling it racist, even though the same rules apply to all nationals. The world has gone PC mad.

    Its expected that politicians get their two cents in, especially when they know they are appealing to the masses by saying things like this. Thats the way the politics game works, all publicity is good publicity.



    Good post, there really is a lack of tolerance and information towards many Irisjh people when you go in to sign on after losing a job. I signed on this year after being let go, and I fould it a horrible experience, which was made worse by a system that seems to not want to give out information, and that is not what I would term user friendly when asked questions.

    There is a big difference between how Irish and non nationals (generally non EU non nationals) seem to be spoken to in there also.


    All Kiely was doing was trying to make it like he was doing something and the rabble would eat that up in a Southpark
    manner...."DEY TEK AR JIBS"


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    #55
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    People who aren't irish nationals and don't have a settled family should be encouraged to go home instead of being on the dole etc.
    yupyup7up wrote: »
    Id be 100% for the removal of dole for those who dont get a job within a year, irish or otherwise. Id like to keep or cultural diversity in Limerick

    I am sorry, but you got me confused here. An hour ago you want to deport all non-nationals and now you decided you want too keep the cutural diversity? Can you clarify on that?


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    #56
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    Kess73 wrote: »
    There is a big difference between how Irish and non nationals (generally non EU non nationals) seem to be spoken to in there also.

    so now you claim that non nationals are treated better than you? C'mon, you must be joking!


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    #57
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    I am sorry, but you got me confused here. An hour ago you want to deport all non-nationals and now you decided you want too keep the cutural diversity? Can you clarify on that?

    I can do. Firstly, you have it mixed up. I don't want people scrounging off our social welfare system. I didnt say that I want ALL non-nationals deported, only the ones that are on the dole for too long. As I said before I have a lot of foreign friends working here. I do like have this diversity in the country but I dont want non nationals screwing our country for benefits! never said anything about wanting working non nationals to leave.


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    #58
    yupyup7up
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭yupyup7up


    fl4pj4ck wrote: »
    so now you claim that non nationals are treated better than you? C'mon, you must be joking!

    actually, if you ever go into a dole office you'll see that there is a BIG difference in the treatment of non nationals and Irish people. I myself have never claimed the dole but Ive been in the dole office a few times.


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    #59
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    If there was direct election of mayors, as in the U.S., we wouldn't have this embarrassment.

    There should just be another poll added to our council elections where you pick, let's say 5, names of the council seat candidates. Then the top 5 would serve as mayors over the council's lifetime in rotation.

    Off topic, but they also vote for their Chief of Police in a direct election. Could get interesting results in Limerick.


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    #60
    Stab*City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Stab*City


    Willie O'Dea for chief of police anyone?:D


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    #61
    fl4pj4ck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭fl4pj4ck


    yupyup7up wrote: »
    actually, if you ever go into a dole office you'll see that there is a BIG difference in the treatment of non nationals and Irish people. I myself have never claimed the dole but Ive been in the dole office a few times.

    of course. al that well-educated people in the social welfare office speaks at least three different languages to help all unemployed non-nationals gets them their part of the cake. and there's a pot of gold for everyone at the end of the rainbow.

    I have never been threated worse than when I had to go to the SW in Limerick. and you know why? I have done my homework so I was prepared for all the bull**** they are serving there. I was told that it might take up to six months to get my JSB, and I will end up better going back to Poland.

    A friend of mine was waiting from march 2009 till last week for the decision. She worked hard and earned it like every working person here, but for over six months she has been stalled with the officer hoping for here to go back to Poland.

    Being born here you are usually in better position - you can stay all the time waiting for your money with you family, that can help you out, unfortunatelly emigrant don't have that luxury, and still have to pay the rent, bills, etc.

    I will give you another example of the Polish legislation: the governent agencies like SW, Revenue, etc. has to answer every single claim within a given time period (it's usually 30 days that can be extended in certain situations to 60 days). if they don't do that, they have to pay up all the arrears including the fees for being late.


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