Pavee Point spokesman on The Last Word

Terry · 29-10-2009 10:19PM

segaBOY wrote: »

I still don't understand why you're going off in a tangent talking about Poles and laughing at racist jokes. It has nothing to do with the thread imo.

I'm making comparisons between different immigrants from different countries and cultures.
I'm pointing out that there are good people and bad people from every country.
I am saying that just because some of you have had nothing but negative encounters with Roma, doesn't mean all of us have.
I am saying that just because some of you have had nothing but positive experiences with (for example) Polish people, that doesn't mean that all of us have.
Finally, I'm pointing out that we were in the exact same position until about 20 years ago.

Didn't see my slightly hidden link?
Here it is again: http://dogonablog.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/no_irish_no_blacks.jpg
Here's another: http://www.britishblogs.co.uk/images/417434.gif
And another: http://memory.loc.gov/rbc/amss/cw1/cw104040/001q.gif
And again: http://www.rickmcginnis.com/lifewithfather/2009/noirish.jpg

Have you got the point yet?

While some of you may not be as blatant as the signs there, you are all treading a very thin line and really need to think about what you are saying before condemning an entire race of people.

WindSock wrote: »

Care to post something more constructive to me rather than a crudely constructed copied face palm?
Wtf is your problem with my post?

I saw what you did there.
Don't do it again.

Terry · 29-10-2009 10:23PM

Jumpy wrote: »

I think its a comment on the "asylum seekers are not allowed to work" followed by "I work with one though".

At least thats what I gathered.

Here's a little secret. Please don't tell anyone.

Some asylum seekers have jobs.
Shh.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Right well im heading for a ban because i cant find any evidence of any Roma having a job that is legal,so im completely wrong along with the judiciary in Ireland,the guards and 90% of the posters on this thread

Terry you seem like a decent guy but it seems to me you are trying to defend the indefensible

night folks

That wasn't what I asked for.
I asked for proof that all Roma are the same.
I'll give you another hour.

muckraker · 29-10-2009 10:26PM

Hootanany wrote: »

The Roma were ejected from India many moons ago and settled in Romania They are not wanted here that is for sure

This is not true. Roma were originally transported to Europe from India as slaves. They have been treated like s*** for centuries. In Eastern and Northern Europe Roma were traded as chattel, included in dowries and bought and sold. I think the last official 'Gypsy hunt' took place in Scandinavia in the late 1800's, and then of course there were the 600,000 sent to the ovens by the nazis.

For those of you wondering what the definition of racism is - hateful and bigoted generalisations towards other people based on their race pretty much fits the bill.

I'm not making excuses for crime committed by Roma - but tell me, why on earth would they want to intergrate into a 'European society' that has enslaved and slaughtered them for centuries?

Jip · 29-10-2009 10:27PM

dlofnep wrote: »

You can't cast everyone with the same brush.

I'd like to see one person being cast with a brush, that would be some feat.

Iwasfrozen · 29-10-2009 10:32PM

Terry wrote: »

Ever been to London?
Plenty of Irish beggars there.
By your logic, that makes you and me beggars too.

Deliberatly mis-understand sentences much ?
I said we are commenting on the large number of Roma beggers on our streets. If Londoners comment on the high percentage of Irish beggers on their streets then that does not mean we are all beggers.

Terry · 29-10-2009 10:33PM

muckraker wrote: »

This is not true. Roma were originally transported to Europe from India as slaves. They have been treated like s*** for centuries. In Eastern and Northern Europe Roma were traded as chattel, included in dowries and bought and sold. I think the last official 'Gypsy hunt' took place in Scandinavia in the late 1800's, and then of course there were the 600,000 sent to the ovens by the nazis.

For those of you wondering what the definition of racism is - hateful and bigoted generalisations towards other people based on their race pretty much fits the bill.

I'm not making excuses for crime committed by Roma - but tell me, why on earth would they want to intergrate into a 'European society' that has enslaved and slaughtered them for centuries?

/Devil's advocate.
In order to thrive?

Why would Black people want to integrate in America or British occupied territories or French or Dutch or Spanish (you see where I'm going here).

Plenty of Irish people went to Britain and prospered after the crap the British did here.
I don't see why the Roma should be any different.

The old but our ancestors were repressed line should not be used as an excuse for committing crimes.
Not that all Roma are criminals.

WindSock · 29-10-2009 10:40PM

segaBOY wrote: »

Since Romania and the majority of the countries Roma Gypsies live in are in the EU they are not seen as Asylum Seekers. There is a strict policy on human rights being up to scratch before a country can join the EU. There is currently no war happening within the EU and the EU guarantees religious freedoms. Should rule out your point, I doubt you actually work with one tbh.

Romanians cannot work in Ireland yet, legally afaik, as they are new in the EU. I would imagine that many of the Roma may claim to be from Romania but are a separate ethnicity altogether. I am not sure if they are asylum seekers, I believe they are but I will have to check that one out. If I am incorrect, I would appreciate the correct answer rather than an idiotic post. What does that achieve?

Iolar wrote: »

precisely what that facepalm is for... oh and segaboy posted basically what i wanted to say:)have a nice night/day:)

Precisely? If you cannot make a post in a semi-serious thread without resorting to childish memes or smileys as your entire post, then don't reply to me again.

Jumpy wrote: »

I think its a comment on the "asylum seekers are not allowed to work" followed by "I work with one though".

At least thats what I gathered.

I do. Obviously he is not on the books like 100s and 1000s in this country...

Terry wrote:

I saw what you did there.
Don't do it again.

K

Terry wrote: »

Here's a little secret. Please don't tell anyone.

Some asylum seekers have jobs.
Shh.

How Dare They :mad:
They shouldn't be working, lazy feckers.

muckraker · 29-10-2009 10:41PM

@Terry: Im not suggesting it does, but it can't be denied that enslavement and prejudice can have a severe effect on the psyche of a people, and historical discrimination can be hard to overcome for both parties. Black Americans are a similar example.

If the Irish had been treated like the Roma have been we'd still be bombing the British. 25% of them were killed by the nazis, and they've suffered horrible discrimination for 500 years pretty much everywhere north of the Balkans.

laugh · 29-10-2009 10:42PM

Terry wrote: »

Why would Black people want to integrate in America or British occupied territories or French or Dutch or Spanish (you see where I'm going here).

Because they dont have the nba and kfc back in africa?

Radharc na Sleibhte · 29-10-2009 10:43PM

I'd love to know what Martin Collins alterior motive is. His arguments are just so ridiculous. He keeps quoting wheres the proof, wheres the proof and playing the racial card and the pc line. The proof is......the people on the street know.

Crann na Beatha · 29-10-2009 10:44PM

This post has been deleted.

Rosette · 29-10-2009 10:45PM

Can I just point out that to say a Roma gypsy would 'always rob you blind' is a bit rich in this country. We've had over a decade of rip off Ireland, where now our own kids have been robbed by their parents' generation. Where we are underfunding the present education system (travellers' book grants an early victim, but hey they don't read anyway). Is the Nama private company another class of robbery altogether?
I'm reminded of the traveller kids I went to school with. They smelled, but they didn't even have electricity, not to mind anyone who could read or write to help them at home with homework. So they were a victim of prejudice (from me and others), a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. They would have no future because they had no start. I remember having to run an errand to a classroom where these girls were getting extra help from a nun, years before SNA's were around. One of them was struggling with 'the cat sat on the mat'. This is an upside-down world, with upside-down priorities and policies. What if we educated the Roma and sent the upper class bankers who screwed the country to jail? It would be a revolution!
We have to figure out that you reap what you sow. What's the point of looking down on the Roma, but up at the high-class robbers who have screwed this country just short of Iceland? Imagine if you couldn't get McDonalds here, like in Iceland?
Ah, we have a better class of idiot in this country than in Romania.

Terry · 29-10-2009 10:47PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Deliberatly mis-understand sentences much ?
I said we are commenting on the large number of Roma beggers on our streets. If Londoners comment on the high percentage of Irish beggers on their streets then that does not mean we are all beggers.

Oneof my main points (again) is that not all Roma are beggars.
I was drawing a corellation between the aspersitions cast upon the Irish up until about 20 years ago and the views that Irish people have about Roma people today.

A little bit of money and all of a sudden the past is forgotten and we're all somehow above emigrating to more prosperous countries in search of a better life.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that we take in every poor and mistreated person in the world. Christ, we're only a small country and we have done far more than a lot of other western countries (Excluding the British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Portugese. They invaded those countries and are now paying the price and deservedly so Shouldn't be screwing around with other cultures. The Americans are next on that list and they will too fall like all empires before them.).
Anyway, little rant aside, stop tarring the all Roma with the same brush.
Anyone doing so is no better than the foreigners who did the same to the Irish for centuries.

WindSock · 29-10-2009 10:48PM

Iolar wrote: »

Same could be said of your sneaky personal abuse tbh

It didn't constitute as my whole post, did it? Just a retaliation to a bell endic style post, tbh.

Jip · 29-10-2009 10:49PM

Jaysus, are we going to have Nama and bankers brought into every debate over criminality for the rest of eternity, especially when it has no relevance in instances like this.

Crann na Beatha · 29-10-2009 10:51PM

This post has been deleted.

Iwasfrozen · 29-10-2009 10:53PM

Terry wrote: »

Oneof my main points (again) is that not all Roma are beggars.
I was drawing a corellation between the aspersitions cast upon the Irish up until about 20 years ago and the views that Irish people have about Roma people today.
are next on that list and they will too fall like all empires before them.).
Anyway, little rant aside, stop tarring the all Roma with the same brush.
Anyone doing so is no better than the foreigners who did the same to the Irish for centuries.

But that's the point I never said all Roma's were beggers I said a larger then average percent of the beggers on our streets are Roma.

Voltex · 29-10-2009 10:54PM

if i remember rightly..Ross kemp made contact with a group of Roma in Romania...and they were basically telling him it is in their tradition to steal..and rob.

muckraker · 29-10-2009 10:59PM

This thread is like an episode of Borat - except without the irony or humour.

Terry · 29-10-2009 11:03PM

Iolar wrote: »

Same could be said of your sneaky personal abuse tbh

That was dealt with.

WindSock wrote: »

It didn't constitute as my whole post, did it? Just a retaliation to a bell endic style post, tbh.

Iolar wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Could both of you please cut it out.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But that's the point I never said all Roma's were beggers I said a larger then average percent of the beggers on our streets are Roma.

According to who?
You?

Crann na Beatha · 29-10-2009 11:04PM

This post has been deleted.

rovert · 29-10-2009 11:05PM

Seriously are there any Roma owned businesses in Ireland?

Im surprised the Collins didnt say stealing is part of their culture and we should respect it.

Sizzler · 29-10-2009 11:06PM

grenache wrote: »

I'm listening to Martin Collins now, the Pavee Point spokesman trying to defend the Roma community, after a judge this week came out and said many Roma parents were raising there children to steal. ''A disgraceful and totally unfounded comment'' he said. I just wonder at times what planet this guy he is on, and whats his agenda. Its blatantly obvious Roma kids are being brought up to steal. We had the guards arrest 2 different families for stealing and trying to extort money from the shop i work in.

About time somebody in power came out and called a spade a spade. Roma's do nothing but leech off the state, they dont work, and are involved in scam after scam. Makes my blood boil when i hear guys like Collins trying to defend them :mad:

A tenner says Martin Collins doesnt live in Dublin.

The interview was a LOB. If they wanted balance they should have had a superintendent on from any of the several Dublin Garda stations to outline his experience of these people, Im sure it would have painted an entirely different picture than that of the Pavee gentleman.

Piste · 29-10-2009 11:07PM

Does everyone need hard facts and figured to back up what they're saying? If enough people notice that the majority of beggars on the street are Roma then chances are that's the truth and we don't need statistics to believe it. I doubt there'd be cries of sexism if someone claimed that the majority of beggars are male.

Iwasfrozen · 29-10-2009 11:16PM

Terry wrote: »

According to who?
You?

According to any Dubliner with eyes.

citizen_p · 29-10-2009 11:22PM

ranting and raving is thaataway

>

Pygmalion · 29-10-2009 11:28PM

Piste wrote: »

I doubt there'd be cries of sexism if someone claimed that the majority of beggars are male.

But that's not sexism, how would that be discriminating against women?

Terry · 29-10-2009 11:29PM

Piste wrote: »

Does everyone need hard facts and figured to back up what they're saying? If enough people notice that the majority of beggars on the street are Roma then chances are that's the truth and we don't need statistics to believe it. I doubt there'd be cries of sexism if someone claimed that the majority of beggars are male.

Yes.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

According to any Dubliner with eyes.

Ahh, that nails it then.
If a Dub says black is white, then black is white.

Here I am living in the sticks and I don't have a clue what's happening in dublin.
That whole half of a mile to cross the border to County Dublin and then the 10 miles to the city centre have left me really out of touch.
Then there's all those Roma who changed their names to Anto, Deco, Johner, Johno, Philo etc. and adopted the Dublin accent and pretend they're heroin addicts, and try to bum money off me when I'm walking along the quays.

How could I have not have noticed that they were really Roma disguised as Dublin heroin addicts? All 15,000 of the registered ones. One in every 100 Dubs. The population of my town. How did I not realise that most of them were Roma?

brianthebard · 29-10-2009 11:37PM

Piste wrote: »

Does everyone need hard facts and figured to back up what they're saying? If enough people notice that the majority of beggars on the street are Roma then chances are that's the truth and we don't need statistics to believe it. I doubt there'd be cries of sexism if someone claimed that the majority of beggars are male.

That's a level of ignorance I didn't expect from someone with a half decent education.

To those who say roma aren't asylum seekers, you do realise that there are Roma who live outside the EU and would thus be asylum seekers if they arrived here looking for, guess what, asylum?

Secondly to those who discriminate against Roma because they don't have a job-do you realise your discrimination is part of the reason Romas do not have jobs? In Spain they've initiated schemes to allow Roma and other gypsies to work in their traditional trades in a modern way-so they have taken jobs recycling and whatnot. Guess what-it works! The same thing could be done here in Ireland, travellers were our first recyclers and with a tiny, itsy bitsy bit of thought schemes could be made available to them which would provide employment. But then the AH bitch fest would just give out about how they are getting soft jobs and the like.

Gummy Panda · 29-10-2009 11:38PM

That post about the garda saying its young Roma children who have to beg is probably true. Never really see any adult roma begging regularly.

One saturday morning I say two roma lads outside Marks & Spencers on Mary st. One sat down, took off his runners and handed them to the other lad who put them in a bag. He then put a blanket over himself and shivered bare foot.

The lad that took the runners off, I've seen him chatting in decent clothes to school girls before then setting up shop beside an AIB banklink. It seemed like he knew them from school. Maybe he is forced into it and this is the life he'll only know.

Another thing i noticed is that there is irish beggers (some are travelers) begging in the same spot. One is a lad who looks like he is only 12/13 but is really in his 20s. I've seen a lot of people stop to try and help him but never seen anyone stop for a young roma lads.

Anyway, this thread has been more interesting and entertaining them the recent spat of recession threads. Especially Windsocks post about asylum seekers not being able to work and her working with one

I think i need to sig that.

Pavee Point spokesman on The Last Word

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