Pavee Point spokesman on The Last Word

grenache

I'm listening to Martin Collins now, the Pavee Point spokesman trying to defend the Roma community, after a judge this week came out and said many Roma parents were raising there children to steal. ''A disgraceful and totally unfounded comment'' he said. I just wonder at times what planet this guy he is on, and whats his agenda. Its blatantly obvious Roma kids are being brought up to steal. We had the guards arrest 2 different families for stealing and trying to extort money from the shop i work in.

About time somebody in power came out and called a spade a spade. Roma's do nothing but leech off the state, they dont work, and are involved in scam after scam. Makes my blood boil when i hear guys like Collins trying to defend them :mad:

Dudess

/rabble

Mc Love

Just ask a mate of mine, he had his iphone stolen from them one night, after pressuring and crowding around him outside a fast food outlet!

They are foul type of people

And no I am not racist :P

Hootanany

Kettle Pot Black

minidazzler

Even the Romanian people hate Roma Gypsies. They aren't the same as Romanians. They are a people unto themselves, not unlike Irish Travellers.

TheZohanS

grenache wrote: »

IRoma's do nothing but leech off the state, they dont work, and are involved in scam after scam.

Source?

Folks we will have no racism, bigotry or likewise in this thread.

Thanks.

Kirnsy

Edit: excellent edit there on the thread title...

Iwasfrozen

TheZohan wrote: »

Source?.

Living in Ireland. We aren't being racist simply commenting on the high percent of beggers in Ireland who come from the Roma Community.

TheZohanS

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Living in Ireland. We aren't being racist simply commenting on the high percent of beggers in Ireland who come from the Roma Community.

We can make our points without generalising and making racist comments, lets do that.

I honestly don't want to have to ban anyone for racist comments, just think efore you post.

AnonoBoy

That Matt Cooper fellah robbed my iPhone outside a chipper one day too.

Bastard.

Where's my news story?

spank_inferno

And the best part is, Pavee Point and the other traveller trade unions are all funded by the taxpayer!

it all gives me a warm lily-livered PC dogmatic liberal feeling inside!

Lollipops23

It really grinds me gears when Roma gypsies try to get money out of me. One time a kid of about 10/11 came up to me in brand-spanking new nike and adidas clothes, while I was stood there in penneys best.If his mammy and daddy can afford better clothes than me, they don't need my hard-earned dosh.

I understand completely if someone begs out of desperation, out of need for food or shelter. But they do it because they can't be arsed to live right, even when jobs were plentiful none of them bothered.grr.

SEPT 23 1989

We need more Judges like that and less Pikey apologists like Collins

grenache

TheZohan wrote: »

Source?

Folks we will have no racism, bigotry or likewise in this thread.

Thanks.

With all due respect Zohan, when have you honestly ever seen a Roma working in this country? It doesn't happen. They dont understand the concept of 'work'. I think this is a fair statement. Thats not me being racist, thats the truth. I'm on my mobile now but shall get you details of Roma crime rates in Ireland in a while when i'm on a pc. I'm sure they will back up my original post.

Hootanany

They robbed my mother on O'Connell St in broad daylight , i spit every-time i see one, see is 77 FFS have they no shame

Horsefumbler

They got my friend with the old shove-a-magazine-in-your-face-at-the-ATM trick. really jacked his ass

DublinWriter

TheZohan wrote: »

Source?

Folks we will have no racism, bigotry or likewise in this thread.

I agree, but let's distinguish between what is essentially a race (Romanian) and what is for all intents and purposes, an extended criminal gang.

I've worked with many Romanians, both here and abroad, and let's get one thing clear, Roma does not equal Romanian.

It's a bit like saying "don't say anything derogatory about The Westies because it's being racist about the Irish".

segaBOY

DublinWriter wrote: »

I agree, but let's distinguish between what is essentially a race (Romanian) and what is for all intents and purposes, an extended criminal gang.

I've worked with many Romanians, both here and abroad, and let's get one thing clear, Roma does not equal Romanian.

It's a bit like saying "don't say anything derogatory about The Westies because it's being racist about the Irish".

Romanian isn't a race, it's a nationality.

But it is true, Roma Gypsies are a nomadic group descended from India, Romanians are Europeans.

Hootanany

The Roma were ejected from India many moons ago and settled in Romania They are not wanted here that is for sure

TheZohanS

DublinWriter wrote: »

I agree, but let's distinguish between what is essentially a race (Romanian) and what is for all intents and purposes, an extended criminal gang.

I've worked with many Romanians, both here and abroad, and let's get one thing clear, Roma does not equal Romanian.

It's a bit like saying "don't say anything derogatory about The Westies because it's being racist about the Irish".

You can argue your point whichever way you want, all I am asking is that your posts are not racist and you don't say all Roma are this or that. If they are and are reported the Mods have to act on them.

Simple as.

segaBOY

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We need more Judges like that and less Pikey apologists like Collins

She still only slapped a €200 fine and backdated the 7 day imprisonment handed down so they walked free, a light slap on the wrist-not exactly going to deter any further crime from this group is it? No matter what she says.

Valmont

The danger with thinking in this way, regardless of the many Roma out begging, is that you are effectively denying the non-thieving Roma people their individuality. Just remember that.

dlofnep

Some Irish people steal too. Not all Roma are thieves. You can't cast everyone with the same brush.

Dyr

TheZohan wrote: »

You can argue your point whichever way you want, all I am asking is that your posts are not racist and you don't say all Roma are this or that. If they are and are reported the Mods have to act on them.

Simple as.

Will "all Roma that I have ever had any dealings with in this country" suffice? there's decent lie abiding roma out there, but I've never come across them in Ireland.

segaBOY

dlofnep wrote: »

Some Irish people steal too. Not all Roma are thieves. You can't cast everyone with the same brush.

True. AFAIK you can't legally work here unless you apply for a work permit if you are from Romania (which most Roma Gypsies are), I would like to see the stats on how many applications for such permits came from this grouping over the last few years.

Would be interesting and may dispell a few myths, or deliver a few truths.

Source

K-Ren

Damn immigrants, inventing stealing.

Kess73

TheZohan wrote: »

You can argue your point whichever way you want, all I am asking is that your posts are not racist and you don't say all Roma are this or that. If they are and are reported the Mods have to act on them.

Simple as.

Somebody better tell the gardai that they cannot say that, seeing as last year they publicly stated that the Roma gangs are co-ordinated in how they move country to country to commit crime.


I don't see how it can be a problem if a person passes comment as long as they can produce a link that backs up their comment.

It would be different if someone was saying all Roma people are this or that. Then it would be ethnic discrimination or an ethnic subgroup. If someone tars them all with the same brush, then that is wrong.





http://www.independent.ie/national-news/roma-fagin-gang-leaves--but-others-will-take-its-place-1428503.html



GARDAI say a gang of Roma gypsy pickpockets, some as young as 12, who have been targeting tourists and shoppers in Dublin city centre over the past month, are believed to have left the country heading for new hunting grounds in Glasgow and Edinburgh. They are expecting new gangs to take their place here as the gangs are organised on a Europe-wide basis and co-ordinate their operations.

Gardai are angry that even though gang members were arrested and repeatedly brought to court, they were all released immediately on bail -- and went straight back to robbing women of purses and stealing money from ATMs in "distraction" scams.

They were so active that in the south city centre area some people were targeted on more than one occasion. The Sunday Independent's Anne Harris was the subject of two attempted purse-snatches within minutes, before her purse was eventually stolen by a Roma girl as she was jostled by other members of the gang at the gates of Trinity College on Nassau Street.

"They were all distraction operations," she said. "On the first occasion in Westmoreland Street they actually got my purse out of my bag and were running away. I went after them shouting: "My purse, they've got my purse." It was a crowded street and they dropped it and ran off. Then it happened again within two hours but they didn't get the purse that time.

"Finally, two days later I was opposite the TCD entrance on Nassau Street. It was a very pretty little girl. She was not wearing the usual long dress but jeans. She did have a head-scarf on. Again I found myself being jostled. I immediately knew what was happening but they got it on the third attempt in two days."

The teenage and younger gang members work under Fagin-type gangsters to whom they have to give most of their stolen money and goods.

When questioned, they all refuse to reveal the identity or identities of the gang leaders, with gardai saying some are in fear of their lives.

One garda said: "There's one man controlling the entire process. He's recruiting children who are as young as 12 years of age. He's organising the gangs of children, making sure they're well versed so that they won't mention his name to gardai if caught.

"He is sending the children out working the streets all day long, from seven in the morning till seven at night and they're very clued in.

"At the end of the day they won't stay with the main leader, they all go back to their families and then head out again the next morning."

The city centre-based garda warned that shoppers need to be wary about keeping their belongings secure.

"People are very naive and they leave their bags slung over the shoulder, half open, and then they only realise what has happened a few hours after they've been robbed.

"The kids are quite brazen about it. They'll walk straight up to someone and put their hand into their pocket or bag."

The Garda Crime Prevention Unit has expanded recently in an attempt to clampdown on the pickpockets, but gardai say it is proving more difficult than anticipated.

"It just seems that when you clear one group off the streets another one comes into the country. A lot of them are changing from the traditional Roma dress to jeans and a top so they they'll blend in a bit more and not stand out from the crowd."

Last month, one man was caught on three separate occasions, charged and brought to Dublin District Court. On each occasion he was immediately granted bail.

As the charges against the gang built up and proceedings were impending, it is understood, they simply packed up and left the city with their takings intact. Intelligence reports suggested they travelled north and then by ferry to Scotland.

Roma gangs have become more active here and elsewhere in western European cities since the eastern states, where they are based, entered the EU.

In the past two years, gardai in Dublin have had to contend with a major increase in ATM "skimming", pick-pocketing and "distraction thefts" almost all attributed to Roma gangs.

The ATM skimming gangs are on a level up from the pickpockets and ordinary thieves and are highly organised and involved in theft on a significant scale.

On several occasions, young Roma men have been stopped and found to be carrying large numbers of cash cards that had been computer copied.

One man was arrested in Grafton Street last year with 200 cards. He had been going from ATM to ATM around the city centre stealing tens of thousands of euro. The ATM "distraction" theft where two Romas go up to someone at a cash machine and, just as the machine pays out, one bumps into the customer while the other grabs the cash, has died down in the past fortnight since the gang left for Scotland.

However, gardai in central Dublin said that it appeared that within recent days another gang had started operating.

- NIAMH HORAN and JIM CUSACK

brianthebard

minidazzler wrote: »

Even the Romanian people hate Roma Gypsies. They aren't the same as Romanians. They are a people unto themselves, not unlike Irish Travellers.

Eh of course they aren't ffs, way to state the obvious. Just because their name is sort of similar to the country Romania doesn't mean they are from there. :rolleyes:

All aboard the AH hate train!

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

Eh of course they aren't ffs, way to state the obvious. Just because their name is sort of similar to the country Romania doesn't mean they are from there. :rolleyes:

All aboard the AH hate train!

Tbh Brian I have heard a lot of people referring to Roma Gypsies as "Romanians", it may be stating the obvious to you and I but there is a lot of ignorance out there.

brianthebard

I'm aware of that, I just think that a *little* basic knowledge should be required before people start spouting their ignorant bile.

segaBOY

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm aware of that, I just think that a *little* basic knowledge should be required before people start spouting their ignorant bile.

And a *little* basic knowledge is given by minidazzler. I don't see the problem in his post tbh.

dsmythy

Whoa there people not ALL of them. Just the MAJORITY of them seem of little economic use. Everyone can tell the story of the Polish/Latvian/African/Chinese/Pakistani guy who they worked with. Few tell the story of the Roma Gypsy though. I wonder why that is?

Terry

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Living in Ireland. We aren't being racist simply commenting on the high percent of beggers in Ireland who come from the Roma Community.

Ever been to London?
Plenty of Irish beggars there.
By your logic, that makes you and me beggars too.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We need more Judges like that and less Pikey apologists like Collins

Careful now.
I don't want to see "Pikey" used in that way in this thread again.
It will result in a ban.

Didn't read this far?
That's not my problem.

grenache wrote: »

With all due respect Zohan, when have you honestly ever seen a Roma working in this country? It doesn't happen. They dont understand the concept of 'work'. I think this is a fair statement. Thats not me being racist, thats the truth. I'm on my mobile now but shall get you details of Roma crime rates in Ireland in a while when i'm on a pc. I'm sure they will back up my original post.

My friend works with a Roma. Shocking, I know.

Hootanany wrote: »

The Roma were ejected from India many moons ago and settled in Romania They are not wanted here that is for sure

Well that's just blatant racism.
Take a week off.

segaBOY

An interesting article from the BBC

Organised crime

Nowhere in Europe has there been more controversy over crime in the Roma community than in Italy, where the government recently declared a state of emergency following various high profile crimes blamed on the Roma.

In Milan in 2007, just after Romania entered the European Union, police noticed a surge in theft and pick-pocketing carried out by Roma children.

They launched a major investigation involving phone-tapping and surveillance, which revealed that a criminal gang was using the children to generate huge profits.

"In a month period, each kid earned about 12,000 euros (£10,500). Then, 12,000 euros times by 50 kids, and if we do the maths, we reached an astronomical amount of money," says Francesco Messina, who led the police operation.

Members of the gang were jailed for up to 14 years in prison for enslaving and exploiting the children, many of whom were discovered locked in a shed when police raided the camp.

The rescued children were taken into care, but the BBC's This World programme discovered two of the boys had gone back to the streets of Milan, and were stealing again. Even this huge police operation had not saved them from a life of crime.

helimachoptor

Hootanany wrote: »

The Roma were ejected from India many moons ago and settled in Romania They are not wanted here that is for sure

They are not wanted in Romania, or another other European country for that matter. They are really viewed beyond disgusting throughout the vast majority of europe.

DazMarz

Ever since I was scammed by some motherf*cker in Rome about 3 years ago, I always give ANYONE who approaches me on the street begging/soliciting/pleading or whatever with the same little phrase, and it makes me feel so much better. It begins with 'f' and concludes with 'f'... there's an 'uck' and and 'of' in the middle. Best phrase ever invented...:D

segaBOY

DazMarz wrote: »

Ever since I was scammed by some motherf*cker in Rome about 3 years ago, I always give ANYONE who approaches me on the street begging/soliciting/pleading or whatever with the same little phrase, and it makes me feel so much better. It begins with 'f' and concludes with 'f'... there's an 'uck' and and 'of' in the middle. Best phrase ever invented...:D

I have to say you are doing yourself proud....

ilovelamp2000

What definition of racism is used as the barometer for judging posts on here ?

The mods need some training.

staker

What disappointed me most about his interview was when asked what action Pavee Point would be taking against the comments made by the judge, Mr. Collins didn't know what to say.

He didn't even know how many were here in the country,yet suggested giving these people the dole.

We really are the laughing stock of europe at times, here look we're broke, but have the shirt off our back anyway

grenache

Terry wrote: »

My friend works with a Roma. Shocking, I know.

Are you sure its not a Romanian? If it is indeed a Roma, i would be very very surprised.

Horsefumbler

grenache wrote: »

Are you sure its not a Romanian? If it is indeed a Roma, i would be very very surprised.

so would I. I can honestly say I've never seen or heard from anyone of a roma that worked. Pretty astonishing considering the amount of them here and they been here a good few years noy

TheInquisitor

Horsefumbler wrote: »

They got my friend with the old shove-a-magazine-in-your-face-at-the-ATM trick. really jacked his ass

They tried the exact same on me. Out on a night out after 3-4 pints. Went to ATM. Suddenly 2 newspapers started hitting my face and i heard someone push a button on machine. Threw back both my elbows and caught the two of them in the face and knocked them back. I kept the money. They were a romanian man and woman around 40 odd and started calling me racist when they recovered. I was after that incident alright. That night a gang of them were arrested for said offense

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojojauauau/

Scum and leaches of society

Terry

segaBOY wrote: »

An interesting article from the BBC

Organised crime

Nowhere in Europe has there been more controversy over crime in the Roma community than in Italy, where the government recently declared a state of emergency following various high profile crimes blamed on the Roma.

In Milan in 2007, just after Romania entered the European Union, police noticed a surge in theft and pick-pocketing carried out by Roma children.

They launched a major investigation involving phone-tapping and surveillance, which revealed that a criminal gang was using the children to generate huge profits.

"In a month period, each kid earned about 12,000 euros (£10,500). Then, 12,000 euros times by 50 kids, and if we do the maths, we reached an astronomical amount of money," says Francesco Messina, who led the police operation.

Members of the gang were jailed for up to 14 years in prison for enslaving and exploiting the children, many of whom were discovered locked in a shed when police raided the camp.

The rescued children were taken into care, but the BBC's This World programme discovered two of the boys had gone back to the streets of Milan, and were stealing again. Even this huge police operation had not saved them from a life of crime.

I got €600,000.
What did everyone else get?

Rosco1982 wrote: »

What definition of racism is used as the barometer for judging posts on here ?

The mods need some training.

You really do not want to start crap with me on this thread.
If you have a problem, then the help desk is the place to go.

Question a mod decision here again and I will ben you.

ilovelamp2000

It's not entirely their fault if they aren't working here and end up begging.

A lot of the Roma in Ireland have come from Romania - the difficulty there being that they need work permits to get a job.

Before Romania became a recognised member of the EU a person from Romania could claim asylum in Ireland and get all the associated benefits with that. Now they can't.

So they can't claim asylum and can't legally work without a permit, so they could easily end up needing to beg and steal to stay alive.

Terry

grenache wrote: »

Are you sure its not a Romanian? If it is indeed a Roma, i would be very very surprised.

Horsefumbler wrote: »

so would I. I can honestly say I've never seen or heard from anyone of a roma that worked. Pretty astonishing considering the amount of them here and they been here a good few years noy

Talk about ****ing stereotyping.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I don't laugh at racist jokes. Last week's Family guy (The one where Lois discovers her Jewish heritage) was funny as ****, but I'm quite aware that not all Jews are as they as portrayed in stereotypes.

So we all sit here in our post Celtic tiger economy and bitch about immigrants.
I' not going to lie and say that I'm not pissed off about Poles coming here and undercutting me. I am pissed off about it. However, I don't ****ing blame them.
They saw an opportunity and took it.
Fair play to them.

Do I hate Polish people becuase some of them turk mah jerrb?
No. They are just trying to provide for their families and make a better life for themselves.

There was a time...


Edit: Oh yeah. Both him and his brother are Roma and they both have jobs.

SEPT 23 1989

i have no problem with any immigrant who came over to WORK and did WORK and contribute to the nation,its all gone tits up now and they are in the same boat as the rest of us

these people are different

Horsefumbler

Terry wrote: »

So we all sit here in our post Celtic tiger economy and bitch about immigrants.
I' not going to lie and say that I'm not pissed off about Poles coming here and undercutting me. I am pissed off about it. However, I don't ****ing blame them.
They saw an opportunity and took it.
Fair play to them.

Do I hate Polish people becuase some of them turk mah jerrb?
No. They are just trying to provide for their families and make a better life for themselves.

um, I don't see anyone complaining about poles here to be fair. Work with a lot of them and get on really well with them. Same can be said for all the other eastern europeans I know or have worked with. So I don't think it's really a fair comparison to be honest;)

Lollipops23

Terry wrote: »

Edit: Oh yeah. Both him and his brother are Roma and they both have jobs.

While that's great, I don't know and have never known any Roma's in employment. I myself work with an Estonian and a Pole in just my department. There are several Lithuanians, Russians, Lativians and South Americans (not quite sure what part) in my company.

Pretty much any nationality you can mention, most of us will know of an example of them in employment. Honestly, and I'm really not trying to offend or stoke this fire, I have never heard of a Roma person in employment.

segaBOY

Terry wrote: »

Talk about ****ing stereotyping.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I don't laugh at racist jokes. Last week's Family guy (The one where Lois discovers her Jewish heritage) was funny as ****, but I'm quite aware that not all Jews are as they as portrayed in stereotypes.

So we all sit here in our post Celtic tiger economy and bitch about immigrants.
I' not going to lie and say that I'm not pissed off about Poles coming here and undercutting me. I am pissed off about it. However, I don't ****ing blame them.
They saw an opportunity and took it.
Fair play to them.

Do I hate Polish people becuase some of them turk mah jerrb?
No. They are just trying to provide for their families and make a better life for themselves.

There was a time...


Edit: Oh yeah. Both him and his brother are Roma and they both have jobs.

In fairness Terry noone mentioned Poles coming here to work or laughing at racist jokes . This thread has a completely different slant, we are not talking about immigrant workers, we are talking about the comments made by Judge Aingeal Ni Chonduin about the Roma and how their children are "raised to steal".

lightening

DazMarz wrote: »

I always give ANYONE who approaches me on the street begging/soliciting/pleading or whatever with the same little phrase, and it makes me feel so much better. It begins with 'f' and concludes with 'f'... there's an 'uck' and and 'of' in the middle. Best phrase ever invented...:D

You know, you are going to say that to the wrong person and end up lying on your back staring at the back of your eyelids?

(that's if you really actually do that or your just a little bit brave online )

I recently saw a hero like yourself do the exact same thing to an Indian girl in a sari asking for directions. I was mortified as she got back in to her car with her husband terrified.

Aidric

Despite all the evidence to the contrary you will still have the wide eyed yawn merchants demanding the Roma's get a fair crack at the whip.