Are ES and Public Sector Going To Get Hammered In Upcoming Budget

djtechnics1210 · 21-10-2009 03:20PM #1

Well its that time of year again guys and girls........ The Budget.

Hearing so much from people that are thinking its going to be 10% pay cut, rent allowance gone, cut in allowances etc etc

So thought id see what people on her are thinking.....
What should we expect in the budget?????

*and before this starts, please no comments about sure us in the private sector have loads of pay cuts, at least you have a job, bla bla bla etc etc*
Its not public sector vs private sector... we're all in this big mess together

I expect cuts but i'm just curious to know what people on here think will be coming for us ES and public service workers in the upcoming budget.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1021/budget.html

"Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has said there will be no new taxes in the forthcoming Budget - apart from a carbon tax.

He said that two thirds of Government expenditure is on salaries and social welfare and that is where the cuts will have to be.

The minister was speaking before addressing the Leinster Society of Chartered Accountants pre-Budget lunch. He said the Government will talk to the social partners and the Opposition but there may come a point where Government has to take decisions on its own and will do so for the sake of the country.

He also said that the Government had listened to the unions' analysis of the situation.

Mr Lenihan said it was important for people to understand that the adjustments in spending have nothing to do with the banking crisis.

He said the adjustments were due to the gap between receipts and expenditure.

Ireland is currently borrowing 12% of its annual wealth and if nothing is done the country would be borrowing 14 to 15% its annual wealth next year, according to the Minister.

He said that is not sustainable and that we have to stabilise the deficit"

Im gonna start off by saying i think we're gonna get 10% pay cut

djtechnics1210 · 21-10-2009 03:23PM

MODS fell free to delete/edit or add poll if ye wish.

Sierra Oscar · 21-10-2009 03:28PM

All of the public sectors are going to be hit.

Carbon tax will be only new tax in Budget

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan has said there will be no new taxes in the forthcoming Budget - apart from a carbon tax.

He said that two thirds of Government expenditure is on salaries and social welfare and that is where the cuts will have to be.

Should be interesting to see how they go about the budget though all the same. Im guessing the current levy will be going up anyhow.:(

Relevant · 21-10-2009 04:04PM

If they go for more cuts i can see another rise in the amount of Gardai retiring at 50. A lot of experience that is in there will be lost and it will be to the detriment of the force.

djtechnics1210 · 21-10-2009 04:08PM

Relevant wrote: »

If they go for more cuts i can see another rise in the amount of Gardai retiring at 50. A lot of experience that is in there will be lost and it will be to the detriment of the force.

Id say your spot on there, anymore cuts and anyone that can retire will.
Most people i have been talking to that can retire said that if more cuts come in their retiring..
A lot of these members are long serving members with a wealth of knowledge, members like these are needed badly with AGS being very junior at the moment, we need to keep our senior members

mcguiver · 21-10-2009 04:24PM

Personally I think I'd be cutting welfare payments to anyone convicted of crimes. Followed by legal aid being slashed, social housing being taken from anti-social elements etc. More prison spaces would save somuch on criminals constantly being free and creating more crime/garda/court/expenses.

But maybe its time for AGS to make cuts in areas other than wages?

Where could we make savings?

Zero tolerance on road offences = increase in income
(Seizure of foreign illegal vehicles etc.)

Cut down of non essential gear? Do we need tunics? Wellies for everyone?
Public order helmets? (Obviously some stations do)

Ministerial drivers (in those lovely mercs and bmw's?) Cant the ministers drive?

Escort riders for politicians? C'mon another easy saving.

Escorting prisoners? How often have we driven across the country with a prisoner.... only to discover a prison van doing th same run?

Streamline court and paperwork... huge savings.
F.C.P.S.'s for more Road traffic offences, again cuts down on summons/court expenses.

civdef · 21-10-2009 05:15PM

Some great ideas there.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised to see salary -10% and further cuts to travelling expenses (which, coupled with carbon tax increases on fuel, will suck).

Talk of striking is pointless - a few decent strikes and the resultant pay savings will suit the Dept. of Finance nicely.

goldie fish · 21-10-2009 07:53PM

Rumour coming from our union is the pension levy will go, and be repaced by a 10% pay cut initially, with another 7% down the road.

General strike anyone?

lehanemore · 21-10-2009 08:07PM

they've said on the 9pm news that it's going to be just less than 7%..

deadwood · 21-10-2009 08:51PM

mcguiver wrote: »

Escorting prisoners? How often have we driven across the country IN A FREAKIN' TAXI!!!!:eek: with a prisoner.... only to discover a prison van doing th same run?

Hope you don't mind a little edit, there.

I hope Mr Lenihan gives me a kiss. I like to be kissed before I get screwed.

donvito99 · 21-10-2009 09:18PM

mcguiver wrote: »

Cut down of non essential gear? Do we need tunics? Wellies for everyone?
Public order helmets? (Obviously some stations do)

OT, but is this the hi viz one?

FGR · 21-10-2009 11:24PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Rumour coming from our union is the pension levy will go, and be repaced by a 10% pay cut initially, with another 7% down the road.

General strike anyone?

10% cut replacing 7.5% (which is tax deductible)..Means what..about a 5% cut?

To be honest I'd prefer the 'pension levy' to be removed from my pay slip. It's exceptionally frustrating to look at.

I take it that any increments will be put on hold; in addition to all of this.

pvt.joker · 22-10-2009 03:31PM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I take it that any increments will be put on hold; in addition to all of this.

would be very unfair, on probationers especially to freeze increments

deadwood · 22-10-2009 03:40PM

The way things are going, we won't be able to afford to get hammered after the next budget!

Sierra Oscar · 22-10-2009 04:03PM

Some interesting information here:

Frontline unions to ballot for action.

The four unions who are members of the Frontline Service Alliance and are permitted to ballot for industrial action will begin carrying out ballots by the end of the week.

Is it only the Gardai who cannot go on strike?

Smokey Bear · 22-10-2009 05:33PM

In relation to the possibilty of strike action by ES it will be more of a protest because emergency cover is still provided.So the threat of the withdrawl of labour does not exist for essential services it seems.
Very strange why this was not said at 24/7 Alliance meetings as the union's know about this clause that withdrawl of labour is not an option if you are an essential service.
So that rules out Fire ,HSE Emergency ambulances,Nurses and Prision Officers.A lot of members do not know about this.
So all this rallying of the troops for strike that cant take place unless ICTU and unions walk away from National Wage agreements seems strange.

Are the union going to walk away from these agreements??

So yeah we will be working 24 hrs a days 7 days a week while we are on strike.

Few Doc relating to this

Local Government Sector Voluntary Code of Practice On Dispute Procedures With Particular Regard ToThe Maintenance Of Essential Services (December 2003)

(Discussions on a draft Code commenced in July 2003. The Code was agreed at a meeting of the Local Authority National Council held on 1st October 2003 and was formally signed off in December 2003. Copies of the Code have been lodged with the Labour Court, the ICTU, the Dept. of Finance and copies have also been forwarded to individual local authorities for implementation at local level.)

Code of Practice on Dispute Procedures
5.1 Under paragraphs 19.12 and 19.13 of Sustaining Progress the Parties committed to agreeing voluntary codes of practice to address in particular the maintenance of essential services. These codes were to reflect the Code of Practice (Dispute Procedures Including Procedures in Essential Services) prepared by the Labour Relations Commission (S.I. No. 1 of 1992). The agreement provided that these codes should be agreed by September 2003.[/font]

Link below is from SIPTU web site in regards to the document.
http://www.siptu.ie/PressRoom/NewsReleases/ArchivedNewsReleases/2003/Name,2495,en.html

"Local authorities are committed to progressing further the core principles of Government policy in relation to the local government sector. The focus will continue to be on serving the customer better and further enhancing local democracy and this agreement will have to be seen as building upon the changes already provided for under Better Local Government and as part of PPF. The key elements of this Agreement are the putting in place of a stable industrial relations environment, the finalisation of a code of practice for the maintenance of essential services during times of industrial unrest, the management and measurement of performance, including the need to put in place quantitative and qualitative measurement indicators to ensure that the changes agreed can be measured and achievement verified."

What is an essential service is covered here S.I. No. 1/1992 — Industrial Relations Act, 1990, Code of Practice on Dispute Procedures (Declaration) Order, 1992.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/si/0001.html

coolhandluke · 22-10-2009 08:51PM

Well i suppose when your pay is unilaterally cut without agreement, then agreements are not exactly worth a whole lot.

And in relation to maintaining essential services,what exactly is classed as an emergency ?I'm sure that's open to serious interpretation.

FGR · 23-10-2009 10:31AM

I'm already stating the obvious but the Government hasn't honoured the pay agreement one bit. I'm surprised that the unions are still entertaining it at all; especially when the likes of the 24/7 alliance are pushing for action and results.

I just hope it doesn't die in a cloud of smoke. I want to see something done about this as it's getting ridiculous at this stage.

brayblue24 · 23-10-2009 12:54PM

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/public-sector-earnings-up-32-in-year-to-june-431383.html

Dunno bout everyone else here but my wages are certainly not up by 3.2% in the last year. On the contrary they are down several grand. I suppose at least this report acknowledges we are down in our net apy. First time I've seen that.

eroo · 23-10-2009 03:58PM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I'm already stating the obvious but the Government hasn't honoured the pay agreement one bit. I'm surprised that the unions are still entertaining it at all; especially when the likes of the 24/7 alliance are pushing for action and results.

I just hope it doesn't die in a cloud of smoke. I want to see something done about this as it's getting ridiculous at this stage.

I hope something does get done for ye. Just don't expect the unions to be any use. The top brass look after themselves first and foremost. They didn't fight for my job and now I have none, and they got quite enough out of me through contractual contributions..

Just remember folks, when your struggling to pay your car insurance, road tax, mortgage, credit union/bank loans, kids school/college fees, medical insurance, rent etc etc etc The lads and lassies in the Dail and Seanad will have your best interests at heart for the 93 days they turn up to argue with each other. They'll be thinking of your hardships when they're in that lonely Mercedes back seat on the way to the airport for their annual Paddy's day trip.. and while they are sitting in the corporate box at the Superbowl, at your expense, they will be thinking of the citizens they represent and how things are quite bleak for them.. ''sure aren't the likes of Mr.Carroll and his friends an example of the hardships people face?''

Have a good one folks.. eroo out

goldie fish · 23-10-2009 08:22PM

brayblue24 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/public-sector-earnings-up-32-in-year-to-june-431383.html

Dunno bout everyone else here but my wages are certainly not up by 3.2% in the last year. On the contrary they are down several grand. I suppose at least this report acknowledges we are down in our net apy. First time I've seen that.

Its a total figure, and typically, quite misleading. The Public sector wage bill has increased by 3.2% because nobody new is being taken on, while those who remain have an increased GROSS wage, as their increments increase, and they work longer hours to do work in understaffed offices.
My Nett wage dropped by 7.2% in the last 12 months.

Traumadoc · 23-10-2009 08:54PM

When he says no new taxes, I presume that still leaves him the option of raising the old ones.

johnnyskeleton · 23-10-2009 10:25PM

If the gardai are going to strike, can I just say this - it will have much more impact if you don't turn up for court than if you don't turn up for other more essential functions such as policing the streets and keeping charge of the stations. Would certainly catch the newspaper's attention if no gardai at all turned up in the Richmond next week. Just saying.

Not to suggest that I have any kind of sympathy or fellow feeling for the gardai, but realistically cutting garda pay is one of the worst decisions that the government can do. Cut other ps wages and the worst that happens is that you get worse service from the various government sectors. But cut police wages and you erode the fabric of democracy.

pauldaly1888 · 25-10-2009 12:41AM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

10% cut replacing 7.5% (which is tax deductible)..Means what..about a 5% cut?

To be honest I'd prefer the 'pension levy' to be removed from my pay slip. It's exceptionally frustrating to look at.

I take it that any increments will be put on hold; in addition to all of this.

at least with the pension levy your gross is still higher which is what your night duty etc is worked out from. if they replace pension levy with wages cut you will be hit badly in allowances

brayblue24 · 25-10-2009 02:54PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Would certainly catch the newspaper's attention if no gardai at all turned up in the Richmond next week.

What day you up?:D:D:D

Hooch · 25-10-2009 04:52PM

While it hasnt happened yet.....I must warn posters that the thread is asking a question. Reply to the question thats it.

This wont become a public vs private section thread.

Trolls will be banned.

Thanks folks

TeaTowel · 25-10-2009 06:01PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

But cut police wages and you erode the fabric of democracy.

Hi Johnnyskeleton, Can you elaborate on this? Cheers

OMD · 25-10-2009 10:40PM

The answer to original question is yes, but not in the way you may think. Public servants need to wake up and fight the real battle which is not wage cuts. If you earn €40k a year, a cut of 6% will cost you about €60 a month in your take home pay after pension levy and taxes etc.(53% tax, 14% pension + levy).
If you have a couple of kids taxing child benefit will cost about €200 a month in take home pay, changes to medical expenses could effect you greatly, changes to pension relief will cost average public sector worker hundreds a month. likewise changes to other tax reliefs. The unions are spinning a tale that they are fighting pay cuts. When they eventually win and the government appear to back down you will all think weren't the union great yet ignore the fact that the government simply sneaked in huge hidden cuts to your take home pay and the unions never batted an eye.

johnnyskeleton · 25-10-2009 10:44PM

TeaTowel wrote: »

Hi Johnnyskeleton, Can you elaborate on this? Cheers

Having an underpaid police force can lead to corruption and apathy towards the detection of offences. Above all other government departments, if this happens in the police force it has much worse consequences for the rest of society.

Shield · 25-10-2009 11:05PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Having an underpaid police force can lead to corruption and apathy towards the detection of offences.

Can you back this up with empirical evidence or is this merely your opinion?

civdef · 26-10-2009 12:20PM

Empirically, the state of policing in many Third World countries would back that assertion up well.

Are ES and Public Sector Going To Get Hammered In Upcoming Budget

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