Are ES and Public Sector Going To Get Hammered In Upcoming Budget

Shield

civdef wrote: »

Empirically, the state of policing in many Third World countries would back that assertion up well.

I was hoping the poster would be able to provide a like-for-like comparison, or point to a study or something that was done, preferably in a First World country to maintain some sort of perspective.

FGR

I know it's of no use but I remember the Chicago PD had to drastically improve Police Officer's pay in order to counter corruption in the 1950's. The mafia 'foothold' significantly declined when officers could afford normal lives without need for other incentives.

I referenced it in my dissertation but for the love of me I can't remember it.

It has been four years though since I did that.

ART6

Maybe if ministers and their departments started doing the job they are vastly overpaid for articles like the following might not be necessary. Neither might further cuts in pay for those who are not part of the "Old Boys" network.:mad:


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobs-for-the-boys-soar-over-10-years-1822018.html


Jobs for the boys' soar over 10 years

Wednesday July 15 2009

THE number of quangos, or state agencies, operating countrywide has escalated to almost 1,000 over the last 10 years.

The proliferation of authorities, boards, advisory committees, strategy groups, agencies, state-owned limited companies and state-sponsored bodies ended up costing taxpayers €13bn in 2006 alone.

Between 1998 and 2006, the staffing levels at 39 agencies increased by 13pc, while the budget levels at 45 agencies increased by 74pc, according to Fine Gael research.

Some 2,416 people were appointed to serve on the boards of quangos on the direct nomination of Government ministers-prompting Opposition claims that Fianna Fail was simply creating "jobs for the boys".

In a major OECD report published last year, the Government was criticised for creating so many "arms-length bodies" and claimed that the situation now amounted to an "organisational zoo".

Months later, the Government announced new proposals to axe 41 quangos.

However, as briefing notes from the Department of Health have shown, it will take up to two years to complete the merging of 15 health quangos which are costing the State €122m annually.

coolhandluke

ART6 wrote: »

Maybe if ministers and their departments started doing the job they are vastly overpaid for articles like the following might not be necessary. Neither might further cuts in pay for those who are not part of the "Old Boys" network.:mad:


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/jobs-for-the-boys-soar-over-10-years-1822018.html


Jobs for the boys' soar over 10 years

Wednesday July 15 2009

THE number of quangos, or state agencies, operating countrywide has escalated to almost 1,000 over the last 10 years.

The proliferation of authorities, boards, advisory committees, strategy groups, agencies, state-owned limited companies and state-sponsored bodies ended up costing taxpayers €13bn in 2006 alone.

Between 1998 and 2006, the staffing levels at 39 agencies increased by 13pc, while the budget levels at 45 agencies increased by 74pc, according to Fine Gael research.

Some 2,416 people were appointed to serve on the boards of quangos on the direct nomination of Government ministers-prompting Opposition claims that Fianna Fail was simply creating "jobs for the boys".

In a major OECD report published last year, the Government was criticised for creating so many "arms-length bodies" and claimed that the situation now amounted to an "organisational zoo".

Months later, the Government announced new proposals to axe 41 quangos.

However, as briefing notes from the Department of Health have shown, it will take up to two years to complete the merging of 15 health quangos which are costing the State €122m annually.

And people wonder why frontline workers are going mental. Maybe this might give them a bit of a clue ? waste waste and more waste.

medimad

deadwood wrote: »

The way things are going, we won't be able to afford to get hammered after the next budget!

But by god we'll give it a good try. The public demand it.....

OMD

coolhandluke wrote: »

And people wonder why frontline workers are going mental. Maybe this might give them a bit of a clue ? waste waste and more waste.

Lets face facts. We have the highest number of gardai ever in this country being paid more money than ever before. Do the gardai as a force do a much better job than say 20 years ago? To the outside viewer it appears no.

We have the highest number of nurses employed in the Irish Health Service than ever before (and one of the highest in the world per patient number) they are paid substantially more than ever before (and are one of the highest paid in the world). Is the health service substantially better as a result of this. Again to the outside viewer it appears no.

We have the numbers of "frontline workers" (which in itself is a stupid term) they are being paid more than ever before. Why are they not providing a better service.

eroo

OMD wrote: »

Lets face facts. We have the highest number of gardai ever in this country being paid more money than ever before. Do the gardai as a force do a much better job than say 20 years ago? To the outside viewer it appears no.

We have the highest number of nurses employed in the Irish Health Service than ever before (and one of the highest in the world per patient number) they are paid substantially more than ever before (and are one of the highest paid in the world). Is the health service substantially better as a result of this. Again to the outside viewer it appears no.

We have the numbers of "frontline workers" (which in itself is a stupid term) they are being paid more than ever before. Why are they not providing a better service.

Listen, the reason they are paid substantially more is becauase they stidy a lot harder than their european counteerparts. If you ascertain a drgree in ur area, then you re fully qualified in that area.. and should be paid highly as a reasult.

A plumber who spends 2 yrs leanring his/her trade earns his/her pay..... so does a Garda(even tho in the good aul days the plumber wud get more for less)
!!!

To cut ES pay is an insult.. not just to them... but to does oof us who are looking for a new job.. I would rather have my money given to hardworking ES prsonnl than to boyos on the dole who do **** all because they haave 70+ previous convioctions and cant get a job. My heart bleeds on a daily basis... i dunno for hoe much longr tho!!

Terrontress

eroo wrote: »

Listen, the reason they are paid substantially more is becauase they study a lot harder than their European counterparts. If you ascertain a degree in ur area, then you're fully qualified in that area.. and should be paid highly as a result.

A plumber who spends 2 yrs leanring his/her trade earns his/her pay..... so does a Garda(even tho in the good aul days the plumber would get more for less)
!!!

To cut ES pay is an insult.. not just to them... but to those of us who are looking for a new job.. I would rather have my money given to hardworking ES personnel than to boyos on the dole who do **** all because they have 70+ previous convioctions and cant get a job. My heart bleeds on a daily basis... i dunno for how much longer though!!

There is a thread elsewhere on ES which puts forward the argument that the length of time before a Garda is qualified is much too long and is likely to be cut.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62763647&postcount=18

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62774725&postcount=27


Do you think if the time taken to train a Garda is bought in to line with the PSNI that the salary of AGS members could be justifiably cut?

Shield

(Looks like someone had a good night )

eroo wrote: »

Listen, the reason they are paid substantially more is becauase they study a lot harder than their European counterparts. If you ascertain a degree in your area, then you're fully qualified in that area.. and should be paid highly as a result.

A plumber who spends 2 years learning his/her trade earns his/her pay..... so does a Garda (even though in the good aul days the plumber would get more for less)!!!

To cut ES pay is an insult.. not just to them... but to those of us who are looking for a new job.. I would rather have my money given to hard working ES personnel than to boyos on the dole who do **** all because they have 70+ previous convictions and can't get a job. My heart bleeds on a daily basis... I don't know for how much longer though!!

gerire

eroo wrote: »

I hope something does get done for ye. Just don't expect the unions to be any use. The top brass look after themselves first and foremost. They didn't fight for my job and now I have none, and they got quite enough out of me through contractual contributions..

Just remember folks, when your struggling to pay your car insurance, road tax, mortgage, credit union/bank loans, kids school/college fees, medical insurance, rent etc etc etc The lads and lassies in the Dail and Seanad will have your best interests at heart for the 93 days they turn up to argue with each other. They'll be thinking of your hardships when they're in that lonely Mercedes back seat on the way to the airport for their annual Paddy's day trip.. and while they are sitting in the corporate box at the Superbowl, at your expense, they will be thinking of the citizens they represent and how things are quite bleak for them.. ''sure aren't the likes of Mr.Carroll and his friends an example of the hardships people face?''

Have a good one folks.. eroo out

eroo it is not too often i agree with many of your posts but this one was so true and makes ya sick when you break it down to the terrible life style that they lead to run the country. They made such a song and dance over the other night when they stayed up until 5 am talking; And as you say I doubt they were thinking about the fire crews under attack that night either

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If the gardai are going to strike, can I just say this - it will have much more impact if you don't turn up for court than if you don't turn up for other more essential functions such as policing the streets and keeping charge of the stations. Would certainly catch the newspaper's attention if no gardai at all turned up in the Richmond next week. Just saying.

Not to suggest that I have any kind of sympathy or fellow feeling for the gardai, but realistically cutting garda pay is one of the worst decisions that the government can do. Cut other ps wages and the worst that happens is that you get worse service from the various government sectors. But cut police wages and you erode the fabric of democracy.

Gardaí cannot go on strike and the thing is the govt are hitting people that are too proud of their job to just say NO, unfortunately. As it stands 40% iirc of the force are still on probation anyway so if something does happen "industrially" there is a huge chunk of folk there that can do, and will be told not to do anything

coolhandluke wrote: »

And people wonder why frontline workers are going mental. Maybe this might give them a bit of a clue ? waste waste and more waste.

It so true 244mil to wind this crap down; My god that would upgrade the entire countries fleet of aging Garda, Ambulance and fire vehicles and still have change over to jump onto tetra the fire and ambo's; Well wouldn't that just be terrible; But no the boyo's must still get paid for a couple of more years to maybe geab a pension or something.... (Greens)..... Oh yeah when is the next election? 2 yrs is it, is that why those orgs will then close down?

NGA wrote:

While it hasnt happened yet.....I must warn posters that the thread is asking a question. Reply to the question thats it.

This wont become a public vs private section thread.

Trolls will be banned.

Thanks folks

Yes we will be hit; Personally I'd rather see the 24/7 group going in and getting guarantees that VAT etc will come down too because the cost of living is not dropping no matter what the govt say; Petrol is back up around 120 now it costs me nearly 35 just to get to and from work for any working 7 day unit; Most of this 120 also goes govt bound; And unfortunately as I'm not a govt minister I can not claim a bonus hefty allowance to come to work.

Terrontress wrote: »

Do you think if the time taken to train a Garda is bought in to line with the PSNI that the salary of AGS members could be justifiably cut?

Reduce cost of living, reduces ammount required to be paid out on dole everything will drop accordingly but we as a nation cannot see this and that is wht 3/4 billion is being lost from our economy this year to the North and that money is very much needed down here
However this will not be secured 1st and we will be f00ked over

eroo

gerire wrote: »

eroo it is not too often i agree with many of your posts

You aint the only one... there was a time where I made sense!:eek: That will be back soon..

psni, I will be enquiring as to whether or not a mod can edit other factors of a good night... such as editing my wallet so that it's no longer empty!

Hope ye all had a safe Halloween folks..

Terrontress

gerire wrote: »

Reduce cost of living, reduces ammount required to be paid out on dole everything will drop accordingly but we as a nation cannot see this and that is wht 3/4 billion is being lost from our economy this year to the North and that money is very much needed down here
However this will not be secured 1st and we will be f00ked over

100%. The seeds for the current crisis were sewn within the last ten years and it is not going to be easy to undo the damage.

Dole and public servants are easy to point the finger at because the government controls that flow of money directly and people are looking to the government for answers.

It's not fair though to promise people a certain amount of money, have them budget for it and then reduce that whether they are on the dole, Gardai or anything else.

Your point about the money escaping to the North is very good and I expect to see the cars lined up from Drogheda to Newry this Christmas to buy cases of beer, wine and God knows what else. The UK's response to the financial crisis was to put tax down. The Irish was to put it up. For each can of Carlsberg bought in Newry, the country loses VAT on the product, income tax on the people who have sold, delivered and manufactured the product when compared with a can of Heineken made in Cork. Plus the money going in to the till escapes the country.

The only thing the government has done to stem this flow is to cry "poor us" and talk of patriotism.

Now they are trying to make some money up by taking it directly from peoples' pockets. No other description for pension and income levies are suitable. Just moved goalposts and a hand in the pocket.

There has been no attempt to make the country more attractive, efficient, competitive. Why can the Irish government not have people queuing from Belfast to Dundalk for cheap beer?

With the track record of the politicians and no clear plans other than to take take take, it's going to get worse.