its self defense in america, what about ireland??

daveharnett · 19-10-2009 05:39PM

sarah_archery wrote: »

just wondering if anyone knows the deal in ireland about what would happen if someone breaks into a home, but the person inside ends up killing them? would they be arrested for using excessive force or would it depend on the circumstances in which the person was killed??

They almost certainly be arrested.

In Ireland, people are allowed to use proportionate force to defend themselves, or to make a citizen's arrest. In the case of killing an intruder, the killer would need to demonstrate that they were acting (at least in their own mind) in the last defense of their (or someone else's) life.

omahaid · 19-10-2009 06:02PM

the locust wrote: »

Its homicide, and that comes in many forms. You have to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that all your actions were justifiable if your to get off the hook. In other words - you had better be able to prove you had a damn good excuse for icing the fool

My understanding is that the DPP has to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that your actions were criminal. You have the presumption of innocence I think.

Remmy · 19-10-2009 06:18PM

yep on a criminal case the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt but you are innocent untill proven guilty.

I didn't read the past two thread so dont know if this was already posted but one must meet force with equal force.

orourkeda · 19-10-2009 06:19PM

If you are going to shoot a burglar make sure you use a silencer is the moral of the story here.

Overheal · 19-10-2009 06:40PM

Silencers are contraband in most states, iirc.

f3qh5g0z6vc7ob · 19-10-2009 06:50PM

I remember been told that if I woke up and there was a man in my room (and not someone Id brought home) that i could kill them as I could say I thought I was going to be raped.

But if I came down the stairs and saw them in sitting room I couldnt!

orourkeda · 19-10-2009 07:13PM

Overheal wrote: »

Silencers are contraband in most states, iirc.

So is shooting a burglar and letting your neighbours hear the gunshot.

Daragh101 · 19-10-2009 08:33PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

If the person is from the Travelling community you're allowed reload and shoot them a second time.

That may only apply in Mayo though.

and thank god thats the case..........dirty tinkers!

Rondolfus · 19-10-2009 08:40PM

sarah_archery wrote: »

just wondering if anyone knows the deal in ireland about what would happen if someone breaks into a home, but the person inside ends up killing them? would they be arrested for using excessive force or would it depend on the circumstances in which the person was killed??

Make sure the injuries you inflict are to the front of the body
Try to finish the job with one or two quick blows.
If necessary, get the intruders finger prints on something that can be used as a weapon and drop it near the corpse.

Follow these rules and it will almost certainly be judged as self defence.

My name is URL · 19-10-2009 08:43PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

Make sure the injuries you inflict are to the front of the body

Try to finish the job with one or two quick blows.

If necessary, get the intruders finger prints on something that can be used as a weapon and drop it near the corpse.

Follow these rules and it will almost certainly be judged as self defence.

Also, undo his fly and put Werthers Original in his mouth

Rhyme · 19-10-2009 08:43PM

We need the Castle Law.

"...but your honour, he looked at me funny."

Pedro K · 19-10-2009 09:54PM

Wreck wrote: »

See the thing is, most people would consider someone who shoots another person in the back while they are running away to be a scumbag, so I presume you'd be ok with them being shot and killed too?

I don't want to drag the thread off topic.

But the person in question who was running away, you can be damn sure would've come back had Nally not finished him off.

Also, his farm had been broken into on more than one occasion in the months leading up to the inicident, and John Wards record wasn't exactly clean.

80 previous convictions. "I was looking to see if I could buy your car boss!" Yeah right.

Funny, John's son wasn't aware of any of this though... Also, may be worth mentioning that he too, has been convicted of theft.

Anyway.

On topic.

If you kill someone, you will more than likely be charged with manslaughter. You're supposed to use reasonable force, which is of course, extremely hard to prove.

dyl10 · 19-10-2009 10:01PM

TheInquisitor wrote: »

From what i know if they are in the non-sleeping area of the house you can only kill them if they strike threaten to strike or attempt to strike you. However if they enter the sleeping area of the house then you can use any means to get rid of them.

I believe there is precedent for this, alright.
Effectively, if someone comes up your stairs into your sleeping area they are deemed to be threatening the safety of you/your family.

nlgbbbblth · 19-10-2009 10:14PM

if I confront a burglar and inflict serious injury by use of excessive force I will expect some form of punishment from the courts.

the burning question is though

- does the burglar get prosecuted for breaking and entering in the first place?

It's important to punish the instigator too. Not just the person who retaliates. Football referees should take note.

dyl10 · 19-10-2009 10:17PM

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

- does the burglar get prosecuted for breaking and entering in the first place?

I'm sure they do.

Give him a good hiding, tie him up and offer to call it quits.

Seloth · 19-10-2009 11:36PM

There was a series of robbings in my area for around two weeks until one night a father woke up to find the guy in his kitchen so he beat the **** out of him and called the guards:D

Mr Yellow · 20-10-2009 12:13AM

Apologies - slighly off topic

Anyone remember a crime that happened in the states afew years back. Basically Burglar falls through house roof light, which was over the kitchen, he lands on a knife that had ben left on a counter & the dying **** (he lived) sued teh house owner for negligence or something! How the hell does this work?

Back to thread - If you wake up in middle of night, we should have the licence to Kill. Plus look at teh benefits of less tax being paid for another scum bag in teh joint.

Overheal · 20-10-2009 12:25AM

Im pretty sure that was referenced in a movie, and no i couldnt tell you what movie.

starbelgrade · 20-10-2009 12:35AM

sarah_archery wrote: »

just wondering if anyone knows the deal in ireland about what would happen if someone breaks into a home, but the person inside ends up killing them? would they be arrested for using excessive force or would it depend on the circumstances in which the person was killed??

There's a difference between protecting yourself in self defense & protecting your property. At least there is in Ireland. Unless a pikey robs your gaff & it's open season, or so it seems.

Mr Yellow · 20-10-2009 01:20AM

Overheal wrote: »

Im pretty sure that was referenced in a movie, and no i couldnt tell you what movie.

So it was only a movie??? Dang colourful mind i got.... Thx

Overheal · 20-10-2009 01:35AM

Im not saying it didnt happen or it could happen, but its definitely a story that has fallen into Urban Legend status.

the_syco · 20-10-2009 01:41AM

Overheal wrote: »

Silencers are contraband in most states, iirc.

Are pillows?

:P

starbelgrade · 20-10-2009 01:50AM

the_syco wrote: »

Are pillows? :P

If they were, you'd have to hide your pillow in your gun at US customs. What a bizarre turn of events.

The_Minister · 20-10-2009 01:51AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

As far as I know, the controlling caselaw in Ireland is DPP v Barnes. It dates from Dec 2006 but I am not aware of any subsequent cases on the matter. If anyone can point me to one, I'd appreciate it.
http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/23fd4a34bad801d980256ec50047a0a8/aded5c6b04f391478025725d00516c14?OpenDocument

Interesting.

I can't believe he said this:

**** it anyway I’ll only get ten years.

Executive Steve · 20-10-2009 02:07AM

Why would you risk hurting someone or getting hurt for the sake of a few baubles?

whitey1 · 20-10-2009 02:14AM

Here's how it is supposed to work in the States-per my buddy who owns several guns and is a member of the NRA

You are in bed and you hear an intruder.

Isolate your family members in a secure location

Identify yourself as the homeowner.

Notify intruder that you are armed.

Inform intruder that you have called 911 (999 in Ireland)

"Request" that intruder immediately remove themselves from your property

Inform the intruder that you will use whatever force deemed necessary to protect yourself and your family.

jdooley28 · 20-10-2009 02:35AM

Overheal wrote: »

Im pretty sure that was referenced in a movie, and no i couldnt tell you what movie.

tink its in liar liar

Overheal · 20-10-2009 02:48AM

it is! you win the internet

Mr Yellow · 20-10-2009 02:52AM

whitey1 wrote: »

Here's how it is supposed to work in the States-per my buddy who owns several guns and is a member of the NRA

You are in bed and you hear an intruder.

Isolate your family members in a secure location

Identify yourself as the homeowner.

Notify intruder that you are armed.

Inform intruder that you have called 911 (999 in Ireland)

"Request" that intruder immediately remove themselves from your property

Inform the intruder that you will use whatever force deemed necessary to protect yourself and your family.

Thanks. Love the theory of it.....BUT your basically 'tell someone to leave while you & your family cower in your own housw', inform them you are locked n loaded (as many in the states are) & let them leave.... NOT in my world, if you come on my property in the middle of the night & i believe my family or livlihood are in minute risk, i litter his / her ass with lead FACT - irrespective of any law. P.s. i am not a violent person!

Manic Moran · 20-10-2009 06:01AM

whitey1 wrote: »

Here's how it is supposed to work in the States-per my buddy who owns several guns and is a member of the NRA

The laws vary from State to State. At home in California, the rule is that anyone who has forcibly entered your premises is presumed to automatically be a threat to the safety of the resident sufficient to cause that resident to fear for his life, which is the operative part in self defence. It is up to the prosecutor to prove that the resident had reason to believe there was no threat before he can gain a conviction, which is very difficult to do. There is no duty to retreat, no duty to warn. This is pretty much the 'middle-of-the-road' philosophy, they can vary from more extreme (Texas) to very restricted.

There's a difference between protecting yourself in self defense & protecting your property. At least there is in Ireland.

Not within the home at any rate. Per the Barnes opinion, invasion into the home is an act equivalent to an attack on the person. The appropriate amount of force is authorised in either case.

Why would you risk hurting someone or getting hurt for the sake of a few baubles?

That's the philosophy in the US. Burglary is a game of Russian Roulette. Just how badly does that guy want to get inside your home, is he prepared to risk his life for it?

NTM

its self defense in america, what about ireland??

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