its self defense in america, what about ireland??

sarah_archery · 19-10-2009 03:51PM #1

just wondering if anyone knows the deal in ireland about what would happen if someone breaks into a home, but the person inside ends up killing them? would they be arrested for using excessive force or would it depend on the circumstances in which the person was killed??

sky88 · 19-10-2009 03:52PM

i think they get arressted but not 100% sure tbh

My name is URL · 19-10-2009 03:53PM

Just hide the corpse, nobody will ever know

<<
>>

Long Onion · 19-10-2009 03:54PM

Self defence

itsallaboutheL · 19-10-2009 03:54PM

*Ribbit Ribbit*

/thread

mikom · 19-10-2009 03:55PM

Depends of whether it's a frog or a human being you kill.

AnonoBoy · 19-10-2009 03:56PM

If the person is from the Travelling community you're allowed reload and shoot them a second time.

That may only apply in Mayo though.

Captain Havoc · 19-10-2009 03:57PM

The law is that if you use excesive force then yes you are in the wrong. It's a bit ghey, it pretty much works out that if a burglar is in your home you can't lay a hand on him until he refuses to leave your property at which point you can phsyically remove him. To strike him, he must first try and strike you.

Wreck · 19-10-2009 04:00PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

If the person is from the Travelling community you're allowed reload and shoot them a second time in the back as they run for their life.

That may only apply in Mayo though.

FYP.

Manic Moran · 19-10-2009 04:08PM

In a nutshell, if the only recourse available to you was deadly force, then you'd be OK. If the intruder was a 90-year-old naked woman* who obviously wasn't a threat and you, a strapping fit 25-year-old male, clobber her with a hurley killing her, you'll be put away for a few years.

As far as I know, the controlling caselaw in Ireland is DPP v Barnes. It dates from Dec 2006 but I am not aware of any subsequent cases on the matter. If anyone can point me to one, I'd appreciate it.
http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/23fd4a34bad801d980256ec50047a0a8/aded5c6b04f391478025725d00516c14?OpenDocument

The judge goes into detail, but it's an easy read.

My favourite line:

His act of burglary is the first (and very grave) wrong. At Common Law the householder would have been entitled to kill him.

Sadly, the Judge goes on to say that the Irish Constitution now prohibits this philosophy being carried out in practice. Fortunately, I live in America, and that restriction doesn't apply.

I've never been burgled in America, for some reason.

NTM

*Even this isn't a guarantee. The Italian Army has hired 78-year-old Keiko Wakabayshi ("The Samauri Granny") to beat the crap out of its soldiers and to teach them not to be too quick to judge on appearance
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/06/26/alg_keiko.jpg

Overheal · 19-10-2009 04:08PM

/popcorn

Borneo Fnctn · 19-10-2009 04:09PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

If the person is from the Travelling community you're allowed reload and shoot them a second time.

That may only apply in Mayo though.

Proper order for any scumbag.

Jumpy · 19-10-2009 04:18PM

jerseyeire wrote: »

The law is that if you use excesive force then yes you are in the wrong. It's a bit ghey, it pretty much works out that if a burglar is in your home you can't lay a hand on him until he refuses to leave your property at which point you can phsyically remove him. To strike him, he must first try and strike you.

In which case it would be his word against yours, and I suspect your word would weigh significantly more in such a case.

Captain Havoc · 19-10-2009 04:24PM

Jumpy wrote: »

In which case it would be his word against yours, and I suspect your word would weigh significantly more in such a case.

I would bloody hope so. It doesn't really bother me, I have hurl under the bed.

Handsome Bob · 19-10-2009 04:27PM

I wonder how many times the phrase "pinko liberals" will be used in this thread.

Wreck · 19-10-2009 04:33PM

jackpalance wrote: »

Proper order for any scumbag.

See the thing is, most people would consider someone who shoots another person in the back while they are running away to be a scumbag, so I presume you'd be ok with them being shot and killed too?

source · 19-10-2009 04:35PM

If someone breaks into your home and you beat them to death, then you are guilty of manslaughter/murder.

If someone breaks into your home and attacks you and you beat them to death, it's self defence.

Everyone has the right to defend themselves using reasonable force. ie if someone hits you a slap you can't shoot them and claim self defence.

Cool Mo D · 19-10-2009 04:36PM

The law is that you can only use proportionate force to defend yourself, your home and your family. That depends on the situation, so there is no black and white answer to the question.

If you can show later in court that you genuinely felt your life was in imminent danger, it is legal to kill someone who breaks into your house.

If you run across some 11 year old who's climbed in an open window at night to rob your xbox, you are not allowed to use violence to teach him a lesson.

Everything else falls in between, and it is a judgement call for you, and maybe later the cops and a jury.

The letter of law is basically the same here as it is in the states, but there is a cultural difference their meaning that a lot more leeway is given to defend yourself and your house with physical force.

So if you feel that in the cold light of day, you could convince a jury that your actions were reasonable and justified to a normal, level headed person, that is what you are allowed to do to a home invader. Since different people have very different views on this, it depends!

I am not a lawyer by the way, so don't take this as gospel.

Borneo Fnctn · 19-10-2009 04:37PM

Wreck wrote: »

See the thing is, most people would consider someone who shoots another person in the back while they are running away to be a scumbag, so I presume you'd be ok with them being shot and killed too?

Ah come on, you're probably right but it's never going to happen to me. Let me enjoy my fantasy about righteously gunning down a scumbag.

19-10-2009 04:40PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I've never been burgled in America, for some reason.

That old T-70 tank parked in your driveway might discourage the bad guys?

SV · 19-10-2009 04:43PM

Wreck wrote: »

See the thing is, most people would consider someone who shoots another person in the back while they are running away to be a scumbag, so I presume you'd be ok with them being shot and killed too?

If my family had terrorised someone for years and I was in the process of robbing their house then I guess I would be!

Takk · 19-10-2009 04:43PM

Depends on how many arrows you used.

You might get away with self defence if it was just one. But if it was Boromir-style you'll probably do time.

artielange · 19-10-2009 04:44PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I wonder how many times the phrase "pinko liberals" will be used in this thread.

I am going to guess once maybe twice depending if your counting quoted....:D

TheInquisitor · 19-10-2009 04:44PM

From what i know if they are in the non-sleeping area of the house you can only kill them if they strike threaten to strike or attempt to strike you. However if they enter the sleeping area of the house then you can use any means to get rid of them.

Long Onion · 19-10-2009 04:48PM

TheInquisitor wrote: »

From what i know if they are in the non-sleeping area of the house you can only kill them if they strike threaten to strike or attempt to strike you. However if they enter the sleeping area of the house then you can use any means to get rid of them.

Where did you get that from, the National Enquirer?

Manic Moran · 19-10-2009 04:50PM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

That old T-70 tank parked in your driveway might discourage the bad guys?

No need. The combination of Gadsden flag on the flagpole and this sign...
http://i13.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/dd/12/e4c4_1_sbl.JPG
tends to have the desired effect. That way the T-70 can fit in my garage, safe from the elements as befits a WWII piece.

I'm trying to upgrade to this sign, though.
http://helpbethany.com/images/0304a/0304088r.jpg
Sadly, I can't find one small enough to fit on my porch.

NTM

Raze_them_all · 19-10-2009 04:54PM

Shotgun point blank to the chest. Calmly walk to kitchen and remove knife and place near body. Say they charged you with the knife you jumped and the gun went off.

Or live out in the country, nobody blinks at shotguns going off in the morning

Manic Moran · 19-10-2009 05:07PM

"The Three Ss"

Shoot.
Shovel.
Shut up.

NTM

PCPhoto · 19-10-2009 05:13PM

jerseyeire wrote: »

The law is that if you use excesive force then yes you are in the wrong. It's a bit ghey, it pretty much works out that if a burglar is in your home you can't lay a hand on him until he refuses to leave your property at which point you can phsyically remove him. To strike him, he must first try and strike you.

thats NOT true .... you can "lay the smackdown" in the event of feeling in fear of your life and intimidated.

jif · 19-10-2009 05:19PM

{homer}{calls over the fence} "oh flanders come round for a beer!
{homer gently pats a baseball bat in his hands and gives a wry smile}

{chief wiggum} you know it doesnt work if you invite them!

{flanders} hidely hodely neighbour!

{homer} nothing, go home

{flanders} oakely dokely..."

the locust · 19-10-2009 05:27PM

OP 100% you get arrested for murder. You be questioned then either charged or released on bail.

Its homicide, and that comes in many forms. You have to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that all your actions were justifiable if your to get off the hook. In other words - you had better be able to prove you had a damn good excuse for icing the fool

its self defense in america, what about ireland??

Comments