M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

galwayrush · 07-06-2009 4:00pm

FFS Mr serial objector Sweetman at it again, he's not even from Galway.:(

Sponge Bob · 07-06-2009 4:42pm

galwayrush wrote: »

FFS Mr serial objector Sweetman at it again, he's not even from Galway.:(

I am led to believe that a Green political advisor tipped Sweetman off about the existance of highly specific written advice/legal opinion from the governments own legal people .

Then he simply had to FoI it or seek it in a disclosure request as part of a legal action .

Chris_533976 · 19-06-2009 7:22pm

CONFIRMED that this is going to be put forward as a PPP, on its own.

Now of course what will be built and when is a different matter, but its confirmed that this IS being pushed as a PPP, on its own.

KevR · 20-06-2009 2:49pm

Chris do you reckon it will be a shadow toll or a hard toll? I really hope it's not a hard toll because many people wouldn't use it to avoid paying the toll and the bypass wouldn't be half as effective as it could/should be.

Chris_533976 · 20-06-2009 4:20pm

Shadow toll AFAIK. All the new PPPs are shadow tolled. I presume this one will be the same.

Sponge Bob · 20-06-2009 8:48pm

Any truth in the rumour that its twin in the PPP is the Tuam - Claremorris scheme.

Chris_533976 · 20-06-2009 9:06pm

Havent heard anything, they only mention the GCOB on its own in the N11 Arklow & Newlands tender docs, nothing about Tuam - Claremorris. But the PPPs that havent had prequal tenders released seem to be chopping and changing all over the place. So I think things are still fairly fluid.

What they SHOULD do is do GCOB/Tuam-Claremorris/Claregalway relief road. But the timings of all those wouldnt line up as the latter isnt EISed yet. Tho if the GCOB gets dragged through the courts it might just work out that way.

KevR · 25-06-2009 11:43am

Galway News wrote:

Two challenges for hearing on Tuesday

TWO legal challenges against the 15km ‘eastern’ stretch of the Galway City Outer Bypass are set to be heard in the High Court next Tuesday.
The cases will be heard in the High Court’s Commercial Court arm, which is designed to fasttrack big business cases, on the grounds of the cost and urgency for the €317.5million roads project, and that fact that €12million has already been spent on it.
Meanwhile, Galway West TD Frank Fahey, who is also Chairman of the Oireachtas Transport Committee, has described the situation where four Government departments are on opposing sides in the case as “ludicrous”.
The first legal action is being taken by an environmental group called Hands Across the Corrib Ltd. which has claimed that An Bord Pleanala’s decision at the end of last year was based on a flawed Environmental Impact Assessment and argue that an efficient public transport system would suit commuters better.
The second case is being taken by environmental campaigner Peter Sweetman from Dublin – a self-appointed planning watchdog – who has claimed the Bypass would adversely impact on Lough Corrib as a candidate Special Area of Conservation.
He is also...

I wish Hands Across the Corrib and Peter Sweetman would just **** off.

In my opinion, if we can get the go-ahead for the 15km approved Eastern section and get it started then it will be huge efforts made in finding a solution for the Western section. The Eastern section needs to be started and then attention can be turned to the other section.

Mucco · 25-06-2009 12:31pm

I can't comment on the eastern section, but I'm not in favour of the new bridge over the river. That stretch of the corrib is very nice, peaceful, great place to hang out in Summer, and easily accessible from town. That sort of recreational amenity is extremely valuable to a city. Plonking a bridge through the middle will spoil all that.
There is plenty of evidence that building new roads just leads to increased traffic, and the congestion returns.
There are other solutions to the traffic problem. As mentioned above, most cars are 1-person occupied, so an obvious solution is car share. People could also use motorbikes, cycle (it's only 8km from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit), encourage employers to use flexi-time. Or, perhaps even live closer to work?
You could of course turn one lane of the current bridge into a bus lane, but that probably wouldn't be popular.

Sponge Bob · 25-06-2009 12:37pm

Too late now, had that bus lane been done 20 years ago then Knocknatallaght would be a lot smaller today and people would not live the wrong side of town for work .

We need that new bridge, today and forever more.

Irish and Proud · 25-06-2009 1:06pm

Mucco wrote: »

I can't comment on the eastern section, but I'm not in favour of the new bridge over the river. That stretch of the corrib is very nice, peaceful, great place to hang out in Summer, and easily accessible from town. That sort of recreational amenity is extremely valuable to a city. Plonking a bridge through the middle will spoil all that.
There is plenty of evidence that building new roads just leads to increased traffic, and the congestion returns.

...well the road has to go somewhere mate!

Also, this argument of "the more roads, the more cars" is so 1990's - like we're about the enter the 2010's FFS. Road provision should be part of an overall environmental strategy for urban areas - other aspects would be public transport, land use, amenities, public spaces etc. In short, new roads in isolation do not solve much, but they can make a significant contribution in conjunction with other environmental measures.

Take Galway, the Other Bypass would divert most through traffic away from the city, thereby freeing up existing road space for public transport use particularly during peak hours. Given the fair number of S4s (existing Corrib Bridge, N6 Eastern Approach, Inner Ring etc), these can be converted to QBCs for peak hours. In turn, the space released on existing major roads (with the GORR and QBCs) could allow scope for pedestrian enhancement in areas of amenity such as shopping streets, the area surrounding NUI Galway etc. One very interesting concept regarding pedestrian enhancement is 'Shared Space'!

I can't download the google map of Galway, so I'm talking pretty blind, but I'm sure most people get what I'm talking about!

Regards!

Sponge Bob · 25-06-2009 1:20pm

Exactly .

ONCE the Bypass is built then introduce bus lanes and down convert the dual carriageways to 1 x 1 and an each way QBC on the outside.

Then send some Knocknacarra buses straight to Ballybrit and stop some of this 'via Eyre Square or nothing' nonsense .

Introduce park and ride from around the Outer Bypass to the Centre / Ballybrit area.

Finally , introduce intelligent integrated ticketing for all that lot and day passes etc .

as for that silly Gluas tram rubbish , don't make me laugh

serfboard · 25-06-2009 1:46pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Road provision should be part of an overall environmental strategy for urban areas - other aspects would be public transport, land use, amenities, public spaces etc. In short, new roads in isolation do not solve much, but they can make a significant contribution in conjunction with other environmental measures.

But as you know right well, what happens in this country is that the new road gets built and the rest of the measures get forgotten about.

While the new bridge will take some traffic away, it will not solve Galway's (at times) chronic traffic problem. There are simply too many cars and not enough public transport in Galway.

KevR · 25-06-2009 1:58pm

Mucco wrote: »

I can't comment on the eastern section, but I'm not in favour of the new bridge over the river. That stretch of the corrib is very nice, peaceful, great place to hang out in Summer, and easily accessible from town. That sort of recreational amenity is extremely valuable to a city. Plonking a bridge through the middle will spoil all that.
There is plenty of evidence that building new roads just leads to increased traffic, and the congestion returns.
There are other solutions to the traffic problem. As mentioned above, most cars are 1-person occupied, so an obvious solution is car share. People could also use motorbikes, cycle (it's only 8km from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit), encourage employers to use flexi-time. Or, perhaps even live closer to work?
You could of course turn one lane of the current bridge into a bus lane, but that probably wouldn't be popular.

All of those alternative suggestions together would not even come close to solving the traffic problems in Galway I'm afraid.

A bus lane on the existing bridge without a bypass would literally cripple the city. It could become a slight possibility if the bypass gets built and even then I don't think it would be a good move. No buses use the current bridge, you would need to have buses running at never before seen high frequencies to justify converting lanes on one of the busiest roads in the West of Ireland into bus lanes.

Motorbikes are a lot more dangerous than cars. I don't think it would be wise to encourage increased use of motorbikes as it could easily lead to more deaths on the road. I think the protection of human life is a lot more important than protecting the scenery on the Corrib!

Encourage more cycling - excellent idea, one which I fully support. But Galway does get a lot of wet weather which makes this an unattractive choice for some. Also, some people don't feel safe cycling because the roads are so busy. If we had the bypass, roads in the city would be a lot more quiet and more cycle friendly.

The Waterford Bypass for example is getting a spectacular bridge, there's no reason why Galway can't get a aesthetically pleasing bridge. It doesn't have to be an eye-sore.

serfboard · 26-06-2009 1:04pm

KevR wrote: »

No buses use the current bridge, you would need to have buses running at never before seen high frequencies to justify converting lanes on one of the busiest roads in the West of Ireland into bus lanes.

But sure isn't that exactly what's needed? Why aren't there high-frequency buses going from Knocknacarra->Ballybrit at least at peak times?

It has to be carrot and stick. Carrot of reliable frequent buses along with the stick of a bus lane. (Of course you'd have to dual Seamus Quirke road and possibly the western distributor as well.)

Oh well ... I can only dream on I suppose :rolleyes:

KevR · 26-06-2009 2:22pm

I wonder what Plan B is, if there is one, if the bypass gets refused by the High Court.

Huge upgrades of junctions along the existing ring road (N6) in the city? Would be very costly (possibly more so than a new bypass) and the disruption during the upgrade construction work would probably cripple the city for a couple of years but it would have to be done. Not to mention the big impact it might have on some adjacent buildings - as unfortunate as it would be I don't think there's really any other option.

As for bus lanes on the ring road - in reality 1 lane from each direction is never going to be turned into a bus lane, especially if the bypass doesn't go ahead. The city just could not cope with that even if there were frequent buses and a good deal of people stopped driving and instead used the bus.
It's actually more likely that they would widen the ring road (or parts of it to 2 car lanes + 1 bus lane in each direction. There are no plans for this and I doubt there ever will be because it would cost a lot so there really is no chance whatsoever of the ring road being converted to 1 car lane and 1 bus lane in each direction.

Chris_533976 · 26-06-2009 5:45pm

Contrary to popular belief grade separating some of the current roundabouts would be possible. But the worst of them couldnt be upgraded due to space (and 90 degree turns of the mainline), and it would all dump onto Seamus Quirke road anyway, which has had its dualling canned a few months ago.

L1011 · 26-06-2009 9:15pm

I'm terrible remembering the name, but theres a wildly under-sized roundabout in the middle of the current ring road that could 'easily' be turned in to a compact GSJ in terms of surrounding land. Further out of the city the Dougishka RAB could definitely be separated.

KevR · 27-06-2009 11:56pm

The existing Dual Carriageway from Ballybrit to Oranmore would actually be a decent stretch of DC if there weren't at grade junctions. Someone driving from Carnmore to Dunnes Briarhill interupts traffic travelling across the City on the N6 because the movements involve crossing each other on the RAB. Loads of other examples of how cross City traffic (which should have priority and shouldn't be interrupted) gets interrupted by other movements

dowlingm · 28-06-2009 1:52am

have to laugh at the reference to sweetman as self-appointed. Half the dail were "self-appointed" to a family safe seat.

Victor · 30-09-2009 10:37pm

Moved to Infrastructure.

?Cee?view · 08-10-2009 5:51pm

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/17622

It seems from this article that the High Court decision is due this month.

What I find frightening is that Frank Fahey seems to be the only politician who's really pushing this!

Chris_533976 · 08-10-2009 9:07pm

And he's whacked up huge signs in Galway about "THE BYPASS STARTS HERE" despite the fact that the sign is at the entrance to one of the parts refused by ABP.

BTW the NRA have submitted four alternate routes for the western section of the bypass. They're not public yet but at least the NRA are trying.

Edit: Granted, Fahey does seem to be pushing this (for the road or for votes? ) but lets not forget it was his government that didnt push this road long ago (should have been pushed along with the M6 as an interurban route and not delayed). Why it was never a part of the MIUs, given how important it is, I dont know.

Sponge Bob · 08-10-2009 9:20pm

Frank is not pushing anything. He simply pulls stunts every 4 months or so . I will be 'processing' his signage some time tomorrow night

Chris_533976 · 08-10-2009 9:55pm

I'll get a photo of his propoganda, dont trash it till I get there

Sponge Bob · 08-10-2009 10:18pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I'll get a photo of his propoganda, dont trash it till I get there

You have 24 hours clear. Do remember it is supposed to rain tomorrow and Franks stunt will look better in the wet

?Cee?view · 09-10-2009 3:32pm

This just on galwaynews.ie

Hopefully the second part of the case this afternoon goes as well.

HIGH COURT DISMISSES PETER SWEETMAN'S CHALLENGE TO CITY OUTER BY PASS

Fri 9th October 2009 The High Court has dismissed a challenge by environmentalist Peter Sweetman to the Bord Pleanála approval of the Eastern half of the Galway City outer bypass.
Mr Sweetman of Lower Rathmines Road in Dublin took the case against the Bord and the State claiming that the road approval breached the Natural Habitats regulations.
Mr Justice George Birmingham will deliver his ruling later this afternoon in a second action against the development, by the environmental organisation, Hands Across the Corrib Ltd.
Galway county council indicated to Galway Bay FM News just last week, that the National Roads Authority is likely fund research on the Western half of the Outer bypass if both cases against the eastern half are dismissed today

snubbleste · 09-10-2009 4:32pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

And he's whacked up huge signs in Galway about "THE BYPASS STARTS HERE" despite the fact that the sign is at the entrance to one of the parts refused by ABP.

Worringly the Tribune refers to Fahey as a government minister..
Don't you need planning permission to put up signs like this? Where do I complain?

serfboard · 09-10-2009 5:10pm

KevR wrote: »

As for bus lanes on the ring road - in reality 1 lane from each direction is never going to be turned into a bus lane, especially if the bypass doesn't go ahead. The city just could not cope with that even if there were frequent buses and a good deal of people stopped driving and instead used the bus.
It's actually more likely that they would widen the ring road (or parts of it to 2 car lanes + 1 bus lane in each direction. There are no plans for this and I doubt there ever will be because it would cost a lot so there really is no chance whatsoever of the ring road being converted to 1 car lane and 1 bus lane in each direction.

From GalwayNews.ie:

GalwayNews.ie wrote:

The Border, Midland and Western Regional Assembly has announced the allocation of €2m in European Regional Development Funding to Galway city.

The funding will contribute to the cost of a strategic bus priority scheme and cycle corridor on Bishop O’Donnell and Seamus Quirke Roads and is subject to confirmation of cofinancing by the Department of Transport.

The allocation is part of a €17.1m EU co-financed fund made available for urban development and regeneration projects in the Gateways and Hub Towns in the BMW Region. These allocations will provide up to 60%of public investment costs in the selected urban projects, with the balance provided by the local authorities.

The announcement follows a call for projects which was issued in July this year and these projects were assessed by a Steering Committee representing the Department of Finance, Department of Environment, Heritage and local Government and the two Regional Assemblies.

fricatus · 09-10-2009 5:22pm

snubbleste wrote: »

:eek:

Has he no shame? That reminds me of "WELCOME TO PARLON COUNTRY".

Even Martin Cullen hasn't had the cheek to put up a sign like that near the new bridge in Waterford :rolleyes:

And "Brought to you by Frank Fahey TD" my a55... if it's ever built, it will be brought to you by taxpayers' money. :mad:

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Comments