Hate the English??

Namlub · 07-10-2009 09:53PM

furiousox wrote: »

This thread is getting beyond tedious, does anyone fancy a pint?

Typical English response, tbh

Rondolfus · 07-10-2009 09:55PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

wouldn't it be novel & even noble of us, if we actually forgave them first? Not only would it make us look good, but it'd be like getting a back-handed one-over on them - just a thought!

That's actually a really good idea. A big ceremony could be arranged (Without Britain knowing its true intent) preferable at a time when all the European leaders were meeting in Dublin.

Could you imagine the Brits faces if our leader just launched into a speech in front of the world saying how " Ireland forgave them for years of oppression, state sponsored terrorism, genocide etc etc etc... The speech could go on for about ten minutes as the English squirmed...genius...

I like your style

Agricola · 07-10-2009 10:07PM

We could also get Mary McAleese to break with protocol and throw her arm around the queen for a big happy family type photo when she comes to dublin!

mike65 · 07-10-2009 10:08PM

furiousox wrote: »

This thread is getting beyond tedious, does anyone fancy a pint?

Not when there are petty bilious arguments to be had. Nursing old grievences over a pint comes a poor second to banging out missives on a keyboard in this day and age.

starbelgrade · 07-10-2009 10:10PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

That's actually a really good idea. A big ceremony could be arranged (Without Britain knowing its true intent) preferable at a time when all the European leaders were meeting in Dublin.

Could you imagine the Brits faces if our leader just launched into a speech in front of the world saying how " Ireland forgave them for years of oppression, state sponsored terrorism, genocide etc etc etc... The speech could go on for about ten minutes as the English squirmed...genius...

I like your style

It would solve a lot of our historical hang-ups also.... consider it therapy, with a bit of ribbing thrown in.

starbelgrade · 07-10-2009 10:12PM

Agricola wrote: »

We could also get Mary Aleese to break with protocol and throw her arm around the queen for a big happy family type photo when she comes to dublin!

No need to get the Germans involved.

newmills · 07-10-2009 10:22PM

Glad I started this thread!!:D

ejmaztec · 07-10-2009 10:26PM

newmills wrote: »

Glad I started this thread!!:D

Can you start one on hating the Russians, cos I'd like to give them a piece of my mind?

newmills · 07-10-2009 10:31PM

Sorted^^

Fratton Fred · 08-10-2009 12:28AM

As I am English and apparantly know nothing about our history, maybe someone could explain why Cromwell came to Ireland, what would have happened if he didn't and/or what would have happened to the English if the "Irish" had won.

The irish have never suffered like the jews or the africans, no matter how much you like to think you did. We may not know our history, but is that any worse than being fed a load of self pittying propoganda.

MikeC101 · 08-10-2009 12:52AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

As I am English and apparantly know nothing about our history, maybe someone could explain why Cromwell came to Ireland,

Fear of Confederate Ireland allied with Royalists, plans to reconquer Ireland, and a rabid hatred of Catholicism on Cromwells behalf.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what would have happened if he didn't and/or what would have happened to the English if the "Irish" had won.

Hard to say. An independent Ireland in the 17th century? Would it have lasted? The effects? No idea really.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The irish have never suffered like the jews or the africans, no matter how much you like to think you did. We may not know our history, but is that any worse than being fed a load of self pittying propoganda.

Some historians consider the Cromwell campaign to have been a form of ethnic cleansing, it's been called genocide as well. I wouldn't be into the self pitying stuff, or the "hate the english for what they done" stuff either, but it's hard to deny there's some validity to claims of persecution (though it's a hell of a long time ago).

starbelgrade · 08-10-2009 01:07AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The irish have never suffered like the jews or the africans, no matter how much you like to think you did. We may not know our history, but is that any worse than being fed a load of self pittying propoganda.

You definitely do not know your history then. The famine in Ireland killed around a million Irish & saw the forced emmigration of another million or so.

At the height of the famine the full system of English poor laws were extended to Ireland. There was food available to save the Irish people from starvation, but it was denied them. Ireland was at this time part of the United Kingdom, the wealthiest country in the world. The British government had insisted on undertaking responsibility for Ireland, but when crisis arose they ran away from it.

The British government of that time, may not have caused the blight which lead to the failure of the potato crops, but as the Irish died of starvation, they sat back & watched it happen....

Now you may see that as being fed a load of self-pittying propaganda, but at least we're feeding you something, which is more than can be said about the Brits during the famine, who fed us nothing.

Latchy · 08-10-2009 01:20AM

I am sure bar a few) every race has had being bashed at some time in AH .It's just the English were always the easy target .I often wonder how many AH posters ( or any posters on the boards ) who attack England and English people have spent time In England ,worked with ,lived with English people or is their Biased Opinions ( some might say racisim ) based purly on handed down History/ recent historical events , without spending any time in that country ,England ? .

Remembering history is important of course .But some people will be consumed by so much bitterness that it devours them ,blinds them , to the point of being irrational and unable to put a non- objective argument across .That pure blind hatred can destroy any man regardless of what race he is from and whatever race the hatred is dircted at .Disliking / hating another race has alway being easy , Hell every nation did it / does it right ? It's part of I suppose , the bigger picture called human history

starbelgrade · 08-10-2009 01:28AM

"We're all fiercly proud to be Irish.. proud be something we don't understand.. but what does it mean to be Irish? It means we're not f*cking English, that's what it means!"

Tommy Tiernan

Bob the Seducer · 08-10-2009 01:33AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The irish have never suffered like the jews or the africans, no matter how much you like to think you did. We may not know our history, but is that any worse than being fed a load of self pittying propoganda.

See what you find with a quick search of Irish slaves and West Indies in google...

Latchy · 08-10-2009 01:36AM

Other Irish comedians like Dylan Moran , Ed Byrne ,Brenden O Carroll ( I know the same brigade probally hate Joe duffy as much as B O C ) are very popular and do sell out shows in Britain

some British /Irish comedians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1vsbu9XBKg

Rondolfus · 08-10-2009 01:53AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The irish have never suffered like the jews or the africans, no matter how much you like to think you did. We may not know our history, but is that any worse than being fed a load of self pittying propoganda.

Well thats that settled then. Thanks. I think we were all waiting for someone like you to clear that up.:rolleyes:

I'm always surprised that English people never question the fact that they were never taught about Irish history. Does that in itself not tell them something???

The fact is Ireland suffered immense persecution under the British. So much so that over a period of 250 years the population dropped by around 60%!! Some of this was due to emmigration, some due to the famine, some by conflict. However all as a result of British policies! Futhermore when you take into account the plantations and the penal laws, it is quite clear the ultimate goal of the British during this period was genocide.

How do you explain the existence of NI to people outside Ireland?? You say, well many years ago the English thought the best way to subdue the Irish was basically to replace them with loyal British subjects!! So they forced the Irish off their land and offered economic and political incentives to British people to settle on it!! Luckily the only place this managed to take root was in the the North East of the country. When Ireland was on the verge of independence this settler community didn't want to be left high and dry by the British and so Northern Ireland was formed. The initial act (and indeed aim) of the plantations was genocide! pure and simple!

Many English people would like to try and convince us that this is just "Irish propaganda". Sadly for Fratton Fred and the three lions brigade, this is history and is reported the world over ( Except in Britain of course). I have lived and studied history in both France and the USA and their history is equally critical of the British. In fact, they are far more vocal in America about it than they are in Ireland!

Its people like Fratton Fred that give modern English people a bad reputation. They seem to wrap their head in a St Georges flag and can't understand why everbody just doesn't accept their brand of history.

The Jews , the blacks, and the Irish are three of the most high profile groups that have suffered persecution. For obvious reasons England is the only nation that would deny that the Irish were persecuted.

However, do we really care?? We know the truth and so does the world. Like the Jews, Irish people were forced to migrate to earn a living. Also like the Jews, the Irish ethnic group is now one of the most influencual in the USA (the most powerful country in world history). It was due to American political pressure (insitigated by the Irish American lobby) that Margaret Thather changed her extreme right wing policies dealing with Northern Ireland. Im positive that Ireland would have suffered severly at the hands of the British at the height of the recent troubles if the USA hadn't got our back at all times.

The point is England's a small fry in the world now (how many times did Obama snub Brown?? was it 5 or 6??lol). They are not taken seriously on a global level (which is hard for a nation that is raised with fantastical tales of a "Great" British empire and ruling the world) All they are left with now is football hooligans, songs about the old empire, and a severly edited history book.

So come on Fratton Fred please respond with another disrespectful comment about the country that is providing you with a home and job:rolleyes:

starbelgrade · 08-10-2009 02:01AM

Rondolfus wrote: »

They are not taken seriously on a global level. All they are left with is football hooligans, songs about the old empire, and a severly edited history book.

Oh come on - they have the Premiership too... a great place to watch some of the world's most talented foreign players play the "Beautiful Game".

furiousox · 08-10-2009 08:53AM

Namlub wrote: »

Typical English response, tbh

Cheers, me old china!

Namlub · 08-10-2009 09:05AM

Rondolfus wrote: »

The fact is Ireland suffered immense persecution under the British. So much so that over a period of 250 years the population dropped by around 60%!! Some of this was due to emmigration, some due to the famine, some by conflict. However all as a result of British policies

Potato blight was a British policy?
So from what can gather it's ok for you to be patriotic to make patriotic, to the point of being xenophobic, but when Fratton Fred tries to disprove some of your downright slanderous claims he's giving English people a bad name?
Get back in your box, son.
p.s. It's influential, not influencal. And kindly stop phrasing your posts as if you're speaking on behalf of all Irish people. I'm sure if someone agreed with you, you'd know it by now so speak for yourself.

ro09 · 08-10-2009 09:44AM

I think most Irish people have no problem with the English. I worked with one for a while and he was sound.

gustavo · 08-10-2009 09:55AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Oh come on - they have the Premiership too... a great place to watch some of the world's most talented foreign players play the "Beautiful Game".

Of course they're foreign , Unless they're Irish of course

LordSutch · 08-10-2009 11:13AM

Rondolfus wrote: »

The fact is Ireland suffered immense persecution under the British. So much so that over a period of 250 years the population dropped by around 60%!! Some of this was due to emmigration, some due to the famine, some by conflict. However all as a result of British policies! Futhermore when you take into account the plantations and the penal laws, it is quite clear the ultimate goal of the British during this period was genocide.

I have lived and studied history in both France and the USA and their history is equally critical of the British. In fact, they are far more vocal in America about it than they are in Ireland!

Its people like Fratton Fred that give modern English people a bad reputation. They seem to wrap their head in a St Georges flag and can't understand why everbody just doesn't accept their brand of history. The Jews, the blacks, and the Irish are three of the most high profile groups that have suffered persecution. For obvious reasons England is the only nation that would deny that the Irish were persecuted.

However, do we really care?? We know the truth and so does the world. Like the Jews, Irish people were forced to migrate to earn a living. Also like the Jews, the Irish ethnic group is now one of the most influencual in the USA (the most powerful country in world history). It was due to American political pressure (insitigated by the Irish American lobby) that Margaret Thather changed her extreme right wing policies dealing with Northern Ireland. Im positive that Ireland would have suffered severly at the hands of the British at the height of the recent troubles if the USA hadn't got our back at all times.

The point is England's a small fry in the world now (how many times did Obama snub Brown?? was it 5 or 6??lol). They are not taken seriously on a global level (which is hard for a nation that is raised with fantastical tales of a "Great" British empire and ruling the world) All they are left with now is football hooligans, songs about the old empire, and a severly edited history book.

Bloody hell Rondolfus, thats some Anti-English hate filled rant if ever I heard one, I dunno why you are so full of Anti-English bile matey (its a bit scary to be honest), because personally speaking I quite like the English, in fact "I like them a lot", for many many reasons, including their Real Ale

I have a few good English mates, they are salt of the earth types, they love their footie, their beer, a good laugh, and they love the Irish just like anybody else. I hope 'Rondolfus' that you feel better now, after getting all that Anti-English Hatred out, but you should also note that your 'hatred' is not recipricated.

The Hatred is only one way traffic by a small minority (within a minority) of some Irish people.

blinding · 08-10-2009 11:15AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

That is quite an oddity that I've discovered with many English. Their history books must be full of pictures of bunny rabbits & flowery fields. Still, that's no reason to hate them.

One thing I'd like to suggest to all those ranting on about 800 years of oppression & looking for the British government to apologise for their atrocities.. wouldn't it be novel & even noble of us, if we actually forgave them first? Not only would it make us look good, but it'd be like getting a back-handed one-over on them - just a thought!

Ireland should have a National forgiveness day.

We can ask for forgiveness and accept forgiveness

And we can give out a load of forgiveness because we have loads to forgive.
Then we get on with our lives until Forgiveness day the following year.

Anyway I forgive all of you even in advance ye ruffians !

Fratton Fred · 08-10-2009 11:28AM

Rondolfus wrote: »

I'm always surprised that English people never question the fact that they were never taught about Irish history. Does that in itself not tell them something???

it tells me that England is a lot more important to Ireland than ireland is to England.

Rondolfus wrote: »

The fact is Ireland suffered immense persecution under the British. So much so that over a period of 250 years the population dropped by around 60%!! Some of this was due to emmigration, some due to the famine, some by conflict. However all as a result of British policies! Futhermore when you take into account the plantations and the penal laws, it is quite clear the ultimate goal of the British during this period was genocide.

what about the population boom before the famine? or do we ignore that the population of ireland increased at such an alarming rate it could not feed itself. BTW, the Penal Laws had nothing to do with the irish, they were to ensure catholics could not gain any power within the UK. it is coincidental that the majority of Ireland was Catholic. Tell me how these contributed to Genocide by the way, what exactly did the Penal laws entail that affected so many people so much?

Rondolfus wrote: »

How do you explain the existence of NI to people outside Ireland?? You say, well many years ago the English thought the best way to subdue the Irish was basically to replace them with loyal British subjects!! So they forced the Irish off their land and offered economic and political incentives to British people to settle on it!! Luckily the only place this managed to take root was in the the North East of the country. When Ireland was on the verge of independence this settler community didn't want to be left high and dry by the British and so Northern Ireland was formed. The initial act (and indeed aim) of the plantations was genocide! pure and simple!

I explain to them that a lot of people, mainly Scots, settled there hundreds of years ago and therefore ahve as much right to be there as pretty much the entire population of the US has to be in North America.

Rondolfus wrote: »

In fact, they are far more vocal in America about it than they are in Ireland!

This

and this....

Are very very closely related.

Rondolfus wrote: »

Also like the Jews, the Irish ethnic group is now one of the most influencual in the USA

Rondolfus wrote: »

Its people like Fratton Fred that give modern English people a bad reputation. They seem to wrap their head in a St Georges flag and can't understand why everbody just doesn't accept their brand of history.

blah blah blah. Socer hooligans blah blah famine blah blah whinge whinge whinge

Rondolfus wrote: »

So come on Fratton Fred please respond with another disrespectful comment about the country that is providing you with a home and job:rolleyes:

This country does neither to be honest. i pay for my home in Ireland with money I earn in England, because the perfect must not be criticised Irish have ****ed up the economy that was given to them on a silver platter.

Has it not occured to you that every single English/British hero is systematically deominsed by the irish. Churchill, Queen Victoria, Raleigh all get the same treatment.

Have you heard the crap about how the Sultan of Turkey was prevented of giving aid to ireland by Queen Victoria? or how Churchill gassed thousands of Kurds? or how Walter Raleigh was responsible for hundreds of killings in Ireland?

Fratton Fred · 08-10-2009 11:29AM

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

See what you find with a quick search of Irish slaves and West Indies in google...

maybe you should do a quick google for St Patrick, the history of Martinique and why they celebrate St Patricks day and also take a look at St Wulfstan and the work he did on preventing English Slaves being sold in Ireland.

Fratton Fred · 08-10-2009 11:31AM

blinding wrote: »

Ireland should have a National forgiveness day.

We can ask for forgiveness and accept forgiveness

And we can give out a load of forgiveness because we have loads to forgive.
Then we get on with our lives until Forgiveness day the following year.

Anyway I forgive all of you even in advance ye ruffians !

You really are into this free love hippie **** aren't you

blinding · 08-10-2009 12:13PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You really are into this free love hippie **** aren't you

Be a lover not a fighter:D

It makes sense on every level.

getz · 08-10-2009 12:20PM

blinding wrote: »

Be a lover not a fighter:D

It makes sense on every level.

i am into that in a big way,i have just got myself a new UK reg car number plate its K155 BLL,just for those who can not see it, my first name is bill.

Lux23 · 08-10-2009 12:21PM

England did loads of naughty things in Ireland but I really don't believe that's any reason to hate or even dislike the English today. On a personal level I find the English one of the nicest people to work and i find them far easier to befriend then a lot of Irish people. I work for an English company and they are a very good employer, when things are messed up its normally the Irish management that are the cause.

Hate the English??

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