LISBON - What way will Clare vote this time?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In two years time there will be riots on the streets with all that foolishly voted YES because they thought there would be jobs out of it. The only problem is that they would now risk their lives protesting because Lisbon has brought in the death penalty in times of riots :eek:

sigh... there is no death penalty in times of riots. Well the law is on the books in Latvia so we'd better make sure not to all go there to riot about our government.

BLITZ_Molloy wrote: »

I actually spoilt my ballot. Don't have any agenda. But the thing about voting yes or no having an effect on our economy was complete bollocks and I found it quite stupid. We're going to have to sort our own mess. It'd just be nice if the government would engage their electorate on a genuine level instead of resorting to fear mongering and blatent bull****.

LONDON, Oct 5 (Reuters) - The Irish 10-year government bond yield spread over euro zone benchmark German Bunds tightened by 6 basis points on Monday, while the cost of protecting Irish debt against default dropped.

Meanwhile, the 10-year Greek government bond yield spread over Bunds also narrowed by 6 basis points.

These moves followed Irish voters endorsement of the European Union's Lisbon Treaty and a widely-expected change of government following Greek elections at the weekend.

Five-year credit default swaps (CDS) on Irish government debt contracted to 130.5 basis points from 138.5 bps on Friday, according to credit monitor from CMA DataVision.

It means the cost falls to 130,500 euros to protect 10 million euros-worth of Irish government bonds.

The 10-year Irish/Bund spread was last seen at 159 bps, retaining their position as the euro zone's highest-yielding sovereign debt, according to Reuters data.

http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp?ArticleCode=9dewjbmb9cbuypp&ArticleHeadline=irish_debt_yield_spread_narrows_cds_falls

It's now cheaper for the government to borrow money to get us out of this mess (the one they put us in).

Yes vote prevented market slump, say brokers

A DRAMATIC fall on the Dublin stock market was avoided yesterday due to the resounding Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum, according to stockbrokers. Traders had feared that a No vote would send the Iseq tumbling by as much as 20 per cent yesterday, but instead the index of Irish shares held its value.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1006/1224255984213.html

theasylumkey wrote: »

sigh...

You cant see the wood for the trees my friend......

In a nut shell if you read what it actually says that it was an assumption by stock market brokers that an index of stocks would go south but instead nothing happened, stocks are by nature volatile in how they react to anything that happens in the world, "they had FEARED they might fall & instead they simply held there value". The opinion of a group of stock brokers that are on the verge of a nervous breakdown because they are speculating on stocks is no way to guide your self to desicions of a political nature & no way to vindicate the YES vote to the lisbon treaty.

This only reafirms the forces at work behind all the agenda's that were being spun as pro lisbon.........its about Money, Stocks, Companys, Multinationals (The Rich) gaining more influence over the direction of the EU's domestic influence in each member state & in world affairs, Not for the greater good of mankind but for the greater good of the main players, movers & shakers balance sheets.......nothing else.

This is really what it has all been about as your quotes in your last post reflect.......as soon as the vote was verified YES everybody's watching how their balance sheets are going to be from it......MONEY!

I voted Yes on the treaty based on it's contents, anyone who didn't was pretty foolish in my opinion. The point is there were economic consequences to voting No and so far there has been a positive reaction to our Yes vote, just like the posters implied.

If I can summarise, Rich=Bad, Poor=Good. You really need to look at how wealth and jobs are created.

meglome wrote: »

I voted Yes on the treaty based on it's contents, anyone who didn't was pretty foolish in my opinion. The point is there were economic consequences to voting No and so far there has been a positive reaction to our Yes vote, just like the posters implied.

If I can summarise, Rich=Bad, Poor=Good. You really need to look at how wealth and jobs are created.

Again the section highlighted & in red especially is where the difference of opinion is between us.........

they (stock brokers) had FEARED they might fall

This was a fear of stock brokers that it would fall........it was an assumption not a pre determined outcome & it was this perception that was cranked up to fever pitch in the public domain that we would be devestated economically if we voted NO......

Look around you.....we are economically devestated & the fact that the ISEQ held still means SFA seeing as it is affected by global market conditions. The ratification still has obsatcles to overcome & the treaty is still in limbo so to assume that the global market conditions are feeding directly & immediatley from the status of the Lisbon treaty is nonsense.

This country & the world fell into ruin not from the Lisbon treaty & nor will it regain that prosperity from it. It was a means to an ends for the institutions to play that into the equation to get it passed as people are fearful for their's & their familys future so the YES was obtained on false premise & an innacurate understanding from the general population of what they were voting on.

Therefore can we have a re run of the referendum as the same criteria now applies as to the reasons it was run a second time (the people didnt understand what they voted on)....or so the YES side said.

More like the people understood it the first time as they were not under the strain & pressure they are today financially & that card could not be played & the wool was pulled over their eyes a second time into passing this with the promise that with a YES comes prosperity for the future.

Manipulation plain & simple do you agree??

meglome wrote: »

I suspect you don't know how economy's work. It all about confidence, whether it's investor confidence or stock market confidence. The Yes vote has helped that confidence, it's not a fix all by any means but it does help.

Now you really have made me laugh out loud.......

value of stocks are dictated by perceptions of how confident traders are trading internationally and various other factors that influence the movement & sustainability (or perceived sustainability) of said stocks.......

However economics are driven through research & the relevant political factors/measures needed to achieve the results desired that came from the research being drawn up & implemented which may be at the cost of the indiginous population's of any part of the globe that becomes the scope of such political/economic aims.

The latter statement is what relates directly to the Lisbon treaty where the former is related to the here & now trading & would only be very temporarily affected if at all by a YES or NO in a referendum.

So the fact that the ISEQ remained stagnant the day after the vote in a time of recession is not an indication that the YES vote was the correct economic thing to do for the counrty & is a pathetic grasp at vidicating a campaign that promised economic recovery if we voted YES.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This would open the floodgates to more political integration, i.e. centralisation, by means of this article, which is already widely used.

Now I am GLAD I voted 'Yes':D
*Moving One step closer to a United Europe...just imagine the first time in human history so many different cultures would be living in harmony and peace..*

Europa...WOOT!!






We need a european anthem:)

theasylumkey wrote: »

Yes im sure they are positivley ecstatic in Bahgdad, Gaza, & Kabul at the harmony & peace bestowed on their countrys by Tony Blair who is the new EU president waiting in the wings........"WOOT WOOT WOOT Tony blair is going to be the head of the EU" they chant in excitment.

I am happy for you living in your EU bubble........ignorance is bliss;)

The same Tony Blair that helped form the GFA :eek:.
I'm pretty sure President Bush blackmailed him and held him to ransom;)
Now we've got Obama, we'll be ok.. He's awesome, pro-science and all!!:D


Anyways a History of Europe:

theasylumkey wrote: »

And bush most likley couldnt spell blackmail never mind undertake it.

He had Karl Rove;)
That guy's a friggin genius.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The same Ton Blair that has turned the UK into a police State since the 9/11 7/11 false flag hoaxes.

No doubt he will continue his agenda once he takes up office as EU President.

There is no such role as EU President, not now not after Lisbon. There is the role of President of the European Council, which Tony Blair has already held as has Bertie. They are changing it from being a six month rotation to two and a half to five years. The person who gets the role will have few powers and doesn't even have a vote on council matters. It's no more than the role of a committee chairman with a fancier title. So even if Tony Blair did get the job, which is unlikely given his baggage he can do feck all.

But why bother with the boring old truth eh.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

RFID technology that used is wide open to hacking and abuse just like any previous method used.

Eventually for convenience the authorities will have all eggs in one basket, IE one smart card for all, PPS, driving license, medical records, possibly transit card and even replacing the old "book" type passport. National ID, Someone with a the scanner will have a field day, or worse still some pen drive or laptop gets stolen from a state office with much of this information, all too common theses days. Now having the "United states of Europe" the rishs of such happening is even greater. :eek:

And the really weird thing is the German constitutional court found there was nothing in the Lisbon treaty that created a federal state, absolutely nothing. But what would highly qualified legal experts know eh. If some mystery person says the opposite on a conspiracy theory's site then it must be true.

Rtdh you need to get out more.

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

The simple fact that the Lisbon Treaty is self amending. That means any agreements made in the future by the EU are ratified immediately.

Did you fail to read the ammendment now put into the Irish Constitution? That was what the referendum was about, not the treaty, it was about changing kernel of our legel system.

Our constitution now explicity states our un-questioned faith to the EU in decision making process. We the people can shout all we like and no body in Europe will give a damm, becuase our own set of rules state that we must trust and accept their decisions without protest in the future.

Democracy my arse.

Saorstát Éireann
1922 - 2009
R.I.P.

.

Ok, let's assume for a second that the treaty is self amending.
Who makes the amendments? The politicians, elected by the people of Europe.
Please explain to be how that still isn't democracy.

meglome wrote: »

Oh I certainly did read the amendment and the treaty, which I can only assume you failed to do. The simple fact is anything we needed a referendum on before the Lisbon treaty we'd need one after, there is no question about this. They have simplified the method for making small changes, as long as the changes are the ones specifically agreed and they don't give the EU any new powers. And even those changes need a unanimous agreement between the EU states, including Ireland.



You could look up Article 48 of the Lisbon treaty that specifies that changes must be made through the constitutional requirements of the member state, i.e. through a referendum in Ireland.



You do know how representative democracy works right?



You do know how representative democracy works right?



I suppose, and it's just a suggestion, you could vote in different politicians at the next election. Representative democracy an' all that.



I can't see from his posts what his views are exactly, although he does seem to understand representative democracy and reality.



It's almost like we vote them in every five years or something to make certain decisions on our behalf.



I don't think he understands how representative democracy works. Not that what he's saying is correct anyway.

Your a gas man.......your contribution to this is comical at best.......

Again i must say Where are the Mods????

This kind of posting got me a Red card & accused of 'trolling' & if i wasnt going to discuss things properly to not post at all!

I know how rigged democracy works:D;):D

Teadrinker wrote: »

This is awfully tempting...

Originally Posted by theasylumkey
....

And bush most likley couldnt spell blackmail never mind undertake it.

Ok my hands are up i must be as dumb as george bush....

Correction: Likely

Nice one Teadrinker;)