BLITZ_Molloy wrote: » Here now. Nobody said voting Yes was going to lead to more jobs or an economic recovery.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » In two years time there will be riots on the streets with all that foolishly voted YES because they thought there would be jobs out of it. The only problem is that they would now risk their lives protesting because Lisbon has brought in the death penalty in times of riots :eek:
BLITZ_Molloy wrote: » I actually spoilt my ballot. Don't have any agenda. But the thing about voting yes or no having an effect on our economy was complete bollocks and I found it quite stupid. We're going to have to sort our own mess. It'd just be nice if the government would engage their electorate on a genuine level instead of resorting to fear mongering and blatent bull****.
LONDON, Oct 5 (Reuters) - The Irish 10-year government bond yield spread over euro zone benchmark German Bunds tightened by 6 basis points on Monday, while the cost of protecting Irish debt against default dropped. Meanwhile, the 10-year Greek government bond yield spread over Bunds also narrowed by 6 basis points. These moves followed Irish voters endorsement of the European Union's Lisbon Treaty and a widely-expected change of government following Greek elections at the weekend. Five-year credit default swaps (CDS) on Irish government debt contracted to 130.5 basis points from 138.5 bps on Friday, according to credit monitor from CMA DataVision. It means the cost falls to 130,500 euros to protect 10 million euros-worth of Irish government bonds. The 10-year Irish/Bund spread was last seen at 159 bps, retaining their position as the euro zone's highest-yielding sovereign debt, according to Reuters data.
Yes vote prevented market slump, say brokers A DRAMATIC fall on the Dublin stock market was avoided yesterday due to the resounding Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum, according to stockbrokers. Traders had feared that a No vote would send the Iseq tumbling by as much as 20 per cent yesterday, but instead the index of Irish shares held its value.
meglome wrote: » sigh... there is no death penalty in times of riots. Well the law is on the books in Latvia so we'd better make sure not to all go there to riot about our government.
meglome wrote: » A DRAMATIC fall on the Dublin stock market was avoided yesterday due to the resounding Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum, according to stockbrokers. Traders had feared that a No vote would send the Iseq tumbling by as much as 20 per cent yesterday, but instead the index of Irish shares held its value.
A DRAMATIC fall on the Dublin stock market was avoided yesterday due to the resounding Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum, according to stockbrokers. Traders had feared that a No vote would send the Iseq tumbling by as much as 20 per cent yesterday, but instead the index of Irish shares held its value.
theasylumkey wrote: » sigh... You cant see the wood for the trees my friend...... In a nut shell if you read what it actually says that it was an assumption by stock market brokers that an index of stocks would go south but instead nothing happened, stocks are by nature volatile in how they react to anything that happens in the world, "they had FEARED they might fall & instead they simply held there value". The opinion of a group of stock brokers that are on the verge of a nervous breakdown because they are speculating on stocks is no way to guide your self to desicions of a political nature & no way to vindicate the YES vote to the lisbon treaty. This only reafirms the forces at work behind all the agenda's that were being spun as pro lisbon.........its about Money, Stocks, Companys, Multinationals (The Rich) gaining more influence over the direction of the EU's domestic influence in each member state & in world affairs, Not for the greater good of mankind but for the greater good of the main players, movers & shakers balance sheets.......nothing else. This is really what it has all been about as your quotes in your last post reflect.......as soon as the vote was verified YES everybody's watching how their balance sheets are going to be from it......MONEY!
meglome wrote: » I voted Yes on the treaty based on it's contents, anyone who didn't was pretty foolish in my opinion.
meglome wrote: » I voted Yes on the treaty based on it's contents, anyone who didn't was pretty foolish in my opinion. The point is there were economic consequences to voting No and so far there has been a positive reaction to our Yes vote, just like the posters implied. If I can summarise, Rich=Bad, Poor=Good. You really need to look at how wealth and jobs are created.
they (stock brokers) had FEARED they might fall
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » In my opinion anyone that voted on a self ammending document is gullible. :rolleyes:
theasylumkey wrote: » Again the section highlighted & in red especially is where the difference of opinion is between us......... This was a fear of stock brokers that it would fall........it was an assumption not a pre determined outcome & it was this perception that was cranked up to fever pitch in the public domain that we would be devestated economically if we voted NO...... Look around you.....we are economically devestated & the fact that the ISEQ held still means SFA seeing as it is affected by global market conditions. The ratification still has obsatcles to overcome & the treaty is still in limbo so to assume that the global market conditions are feeding directly & immediatley from the status of the Lisbon treaty is nonsense. This country & the world fell into ruin not from the Lisbon treaty & nor will it regain that prosperity from it. It was a means to an ends for the institutions to play that into the equation to get it passed as people are fearful for their's & their familys future so the YES was obtained on false premise & an innacurate understanding from the general population of what they were voting on. Therefore can we have a re run of the referendum as the same criteria now applies as to the reasons it was run a second time (the people didnt understand what they voted on)....or so the YES side said. More like the people understood it the first time as they were not under the strain & pressure they are today financially & that card could not be played & the wool was pulled over their eyes a second time into passing this with the promise that with a YES comes prosperity for the future. Manipulation plain & simple do you agree??
meglome wrote: » I suspect you don't know how economy's work. It all about confidence, whether it's investor confidence or stock market confidence. The Yes vote has helped that confidence, it's not a fix all by any means but it does help.
meglome wrote: » I agree and thankfully none of us voted for a self amending document. Back to your conspiracy's.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » This would open the floodgates to more political integration, i.e. centralisation, by means of this article, which is already widely used.
Malty_T wrote: » Now I am GLAD I voted 'Yes':) *Moving One step closer to a United Europe...just imagine the first time in human history so many different cultures would be living in harmony and peace..* Europa...WOOT!!
theasylumkey wrote: » Yes im sure they are positivley ecstatic in Bahgdad, Gaza, & Kabul at the harmony & peace bestowed on their countrys by Tony Blair who is the new EU president waiting in the wings........"WOOT WOOT WOOT Tony blair is going to be the head of the EU" they chant in excitment. I am happy for you living in your EU bubble........ignorance is bliss;)
Malty_T wrote: » The same Tony Blair that helped form the GFA :eek:. I'm pretty sure President Bush blackmailed him and held him to ransom;)
theasylumkey wrote: » And bush most likley couldnt spell blackmail never mind undertake it.
Dr Kamikazi wrote: » High tech surveillance, passports that can't be forged, exchange of information between the police forces of all the countries of the EU, the ability to access data, etc... THANK GOD for that, maybe now at last something can be done about drug trafficking, human trafficking, organized crime and, yes, terrorism. This data will be used in case you are under suspicion for any of these activities. I do feel safer with all this backup to protect decent citizens. Also, if you really think that inspectors will be sitting there and having a w*nk over your private data...really. There's hundreds of millions of people in Europe. In 99% of cases your data will never be viewed by anyone.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » The same Ton Blair that has turned the UK into a police State since the 9/11 7/11 false flag hoaxes. No doubt he will continue his agenda once he takes up office as EU President.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » RFID technology that used is wide open to hacking and abuse just like any previous method used. Eventually for convenience the authorities will have all eggs in one basket, IE one smart card for all, PPS, driving license, medical records, possibly transit card and even replacing the old "book" type passport. National ID, Someone with a the scanner will have a field day, or worse still some pen drive or laptop gets stolen from a state office with much of this information, all too common theses days. Now having the "United states of Europe" the rishs of such happening is even greater. :eek:
meglome wrote: » And the really weird thing is the German constitutional court found there was nothing in the Lisbon treaty that created a federal state, absolutely nothing. But what would highly qualified legal experts know eh. If some mystery person says the opposite on a conspiracy theory's site then it must be true. Rtdh you need to get out more.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » The simple fact that the Lisbon Treaty is self amending. That means any agreements made in the future by the EU are ratified immediately. Did you fail to read the ammendment now put into the Irish Constitution? That was what the referendum was about, not the treaty, it was about changing kernel of our legel system. Our constitution now explicity states our un-questioned faith to the EU in decision making process. We the people can shout all we like and no body in Europe will give a damm, becuase our own set of rules state that we must trust and accept their decisions without protest in the future. Democracy my arse. Saorstát Éireann 1922 - 2009 R.I.P.
Malty_T wrote: » . Ok, let's assume for a second that the treaty is self amending. Who makes the amendments? The politicians, elected by the people of Europe. Please explain to be how that still isn't democracy.
theasylumkey wrote: » History has shown that politicians that do not have to answer or take stock of the populations opinion do not operate in the interests of the people what so ever.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » The simple fact that the Lisbon Treaty is self amending. That means any agreements made in the future by the EU are ratified immediately. Did you fail to read the ammendment now put into the Irish Constitution? That was what the referendum was about, not the treaty, it was about changing kernel of our legel system. Our constitution now explicity states our un-questioned faith to the EU in decision making process. We the people can shout all we like and no body in Europe will give a damm, becuase our own set of rules state that we must trust and accept their decisions without protest in the future.
theasylumkey wrote: » Ah come on now......sure in that case why should we have had a referendum!
theasylumkey wrote: » Based on your logic because Fianna Fail are elected we should just trust them to make all our desicions for us!!!
theasylumkey wrote: » To advocate a move away from consulting the people on any given changes to our political institutions & to allow the politicians to basically decide what is the best way to change & run without any input from the people is like self regulation......
theasylumkey wrote: » You may not even realise your self but your views are extremley right wing!
theasylumkey wrote: » Trust the politicians to regulate themselves!!!!!!!!!!! Not a chance.
meglome wrote: » Oh I certainly did read the amendment and the treaty, which I can only assume you failed to do. The simple fact is anything we needed a referendum on before the Lisbon treaty we'd need one after, there is no question about this. They have simplified the method for making small changes, as long as the changes are the ones specifically agreed and they don't give the EU any new powers. And even those changes need a unanimous agreement between the EU states, including Ireland. You could look up Article 48 of the Lisbon treaty that specifies that changes must be made through the constitutional requirements of the member state, i.e. through a referendum in Ireland. You do know how representative democracy works right? You do know how representative democracy works right? I suppose, and it's just a suggestion, you could vote in different politicians at the next election. Representative democracy an' all that. I can't see from his posts what his views are exactly, although he does seem to understand representative democracy and reality. It's almost like we vote them in every five years or something to make certain decisions on our behalf. I don't think he understands how representative democracy works. Not that what he's saying is correct anyway.
theasylumkey wrote: » .... And bush most likley couldnt spell blackmail never mind undertake it.
Teadrinker wrote: » This is awfully tempting...
Originally Posted by theasylumkey .... And bush most likley couldnt spell blackmail never mind undertake it.
meglome wrote: » Oh I certainly did read the amendment and the treaty, which I can only assume you failed to do. The simple fact is anything we needed a referendum on before the Lisbon treaty we'd need one after, there is no question about this. They have simplified the method for making small changes, as long as the changes are the ones specifically agreed and they don't give the EU any new powers. And even those changes need a unanimous agreement between the EU states, including Ireland.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » Saorstát Éireann 1922 - 2009 R.I.P.
fergusman wrote: » Hey Drinken munky you do realise that your sig is totally inaccurate? Saorstat Eireann (Irish Free State) ended in 1948 when we declared a Republic. Youre 60 years too late.
