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Give me a few good reasons why its in my best interests and others to vote yes?

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    #62
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Presumably, then, one would see the disastrous effects of the opening of Ireland's labour market on this graph. In fact, one sees no such thing.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #63
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Hospitality sector;

    MORE THAN half of immigrants working in Irish restaurants earn less than the minimum wage, according to a new report.
    Some 43 per cent also work more than the legal limit of 48 hours per week, while 85 per cent do not receive overtime rates or extra pay for Sunday work.

    My ex was a chef and this has always like this and has nothing to do with foreign workers. Our government should have policed it correctly.
    PaulieD wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1217/1229035813353.html

    I could go on, but I have made my point. The Nice treaty and the accession of the eastern european states, has been a disaster for the average worker. Mass immigration facilitated the lowering of wages, whilst pushing up costs of living. The only ones who profited were big businesses and slum landlords, whilst the working the middle class paid the social costs.

    My ex got higher wages while a lot of the really crappy jobs were done by foreigners. The jobs that no Irish person would take. I dunno where you've been living by my cost of living is down a good 15% and falling.


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    #64
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    realcam wrote: »
    So she has a bunch of degrees and yet the influx of cheap unqualified workers from the new EU states has cost her a job?
    Something doesn't add up.

    Just an observation: many of the workers from the accession states have good formal qualifications, but are working here in jobs that do not require their particular skills.
    PaulieD wrote: »
    ... Immigrants, have taken more than they have put in...

    I think that needs some explanation.


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    #65
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    meglome wrote: »
    My ex was a chef and this has always like this and has nothing to do with foreign workers. Our government should have policed it correctly.

    The employers want docile cheap labour as they are easier to exploit.


    meglome wrote: »
    My ex got higher wages while a lot of the really crappy jobs were done by foreigners. The jobs that no Irish person would take. I dunno where you've been living by my cost of living is down a good 15% and falling.

    Maybe, just maybe, the Irish could not compete with the eastern europeans? We cannot all live ten to one house, shop in Aldi, drop wodka at home, and purchase our ciggies, by bulk, in eastern europe.

    As for the myth that the Irish were too lazy to do the jobs, who did them before mass immigration? Thats right, the Irish.

    The hilarious thing about this myth, is that in Poland, the Poles are told the Ukranians are doing the jobs the Poles are too lazy to do!


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    #66
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Just an observation: many of the workers from the accession states have good formal qualifications, but are working here in jobs that do not require their particular skills.



    So they say. Ever do a background check on an eastern european future employee? It will open your eyes, let me tell you. Anybody can lie on a CV.


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I think that needs some explanation.

    Sure.

    Foreign workers send more of earnings to homeland than previously thought. Immigrants sent back more than €1.5 billion to eastern Europe last year, three times more than in 2006, writes Sarah O’Sullivan. The Central Statistics Office had estimated that about €570m was repatriated last year but figures obtained from eastern European banks show the real figure is far higher.
    Many immigrants are spending only a small proportion of their earnings in Ireland, instead using their wages to support families at home.

    http://baltic-ireland.ie/2008/08/3024/

    RTÉ News has learned that the Early Childcare Allowance is to be paid to the children of all workers from EU countries living here, whether or not their children are resident in Ireland.

    As a result, Fine Gael says the Government may have underestimated the cost of the allowance by as much as €150m.
    ....
    However, under EU regulations family payments like child benefit are exempt from this condition and it appears the new childcare supplement will fall into this category.
    ....
    He also stressed that Ireland was obliged under EU law to make the payment available to all EU citizens working here.
    ....
    Fine Gael has accused the Government of being incapable of costing the measure and says it was a ridiculous situation that Irish tax payers would be funding childcare for children not resident here.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0130/childcare.html


    Non-national students should be segregated until they can speak English as the current €126m annual spend on support teachers isn't working, according to the Opposition.
    Assistance to foreign national children who don't speak English in our schools has cost the Irish taxpayer almost €300m in the past three years alone, new figures obtained by the Sunday Independent reveal.

    http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/cost-of-teaching-english-to-immigrants-exceeds-8364126m-1372313.html


    THE number of people receiving State rent support has jumped by nearly a quarter in just six months -- with one-third of claimants foreign nationals.

    New figures supplied to the Irish Independent show that the recession has caused a huge increase in the numbers unable to meet housing costs on their own.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/strain-on-rent-relief-as-32000-foreigners-claim-aid-1843632.html

    Foreign nationals on the live register increased by 45,798 to 79,077 over the course of the year. The majority are from the EU accession states

    Thats 79,077 x 104 x 52= 838,848,816 per annum.

    Now, before you start spouting that myth that they we needed them as we needed more taxes, we did not. According to several articles in the Irish Times, as much as 38% of workers were entirely out of the (P.A.Y.E.) tax net. Of course, low paid foreigners would have contributed a significant proportion of this cohort. In fact, most foreigners working here were probably not obliged to pay P.A.Y.E. tax and thus not income taxpayers.

    One last thing, in 2008, 90% of all new jobs went to foreigners.


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    #67
    TCP/IP_King
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭TCP/IP_King


    [FONT=Verdana,arial]"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?" [/FONT]


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    #68
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    TCP/IP_King wrote: »
    [FONT=Verdana,arial]"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?" [/FONT]

    So you don't like communists?


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    #69
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    meglome wrote: »
    So you don't like communists?

    Does anybody?:)


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    #70
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    PaulieD wrote: »
    The employers want docile cheap labour as they are easier to exploit.

    No Irish person wanted to do those jobs, you want to scrub pots all day? McDonalds ran specific ad campaigns to get Irish people to work there because even the students didn't want to.
    PaulieD wrote: »
    Maybe, just maybe, the Irish could not compete with the eastern europeans? We cannot all live ten to one house, shop in Aldi, drop wodka at home, and purchase our ciggies, by bulk, in eastern europe.

    As for the myth that the Irish were too lazy to do the jobs, who did them before mass immigration? Thats right, the Irish.

    The hilarious thing about this myth, is that in Poland, the Poles are told the Ukranians are doing the jobs the Poles are too lazy to do!

    You can dress your xenophobia anyway you like. Maybe you should have those couple of million Irish people back too, should we?


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    #71
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    meglome wrote: »
    You can dress your xenophobia anyway you like. Maybe you should have those couple of million Irish people back too, should we?

    Yawn. You are not comparing like with like. The Irish emigrated to New World countries such as America, Canada, Australia etc. These countries are all countless times larger than Ireland. All european countries have had their citizens emigrate to them en masse, not just Ireland.

    Ireland is a small bankrupt island at the edge of europe. We have finite resources and a native population already residing here with customs, traditions and a culture of our own. We simply cannot absorb any and everybody who wishes to come here.

    Calling for a stringent immigration policy, one that assures we get the cream of the crop, is not xenophobic.
    meglome wrote: »
    Ah jaysis, I am all over the place.

    Indeed.


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    #72
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    One thing about Paulie, you always know the threads he'll reply to!

    LOL, I thought I was Lisbon obsessed.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #73
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    K-9 wrote: »
    One thing about Paulie, you always know the threads he'll reply to!

    LOL, I thought I was Lisbon obsessed.

    Bit rich, considering you have 7.72 posts per day over a two year period. I am impressed.


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    #74
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Calling for a stringent immigration policy, one that assures we get the cream of the crop, is not xenophobic.
    Debatable. What it certainly is, is incompatible with EU membership.


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    #75
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    caseyann wrote: »
    As an Irish woman and unemployed although degrees in many things can not even get a job in a shop which i am over qualified for,

    You are not over qualified to work in a shop. Just because you have a degree does not make you suitable to work in the retail industry - especially above those who have relevant training & experience in that industry.

    As for Lisbon = Jobs. No.

    You don't need a degree to work that one out.


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    #76
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Debatable. What it certainly is, is incompatible with EU membership.

    Opt outs are available, of course.


    P { MARGIN: 0px } UL { MARGIN-TOP: 5px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5px } OL { MARGIN-TOP: 5px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5px } iv) safeguard clause (paragraph 7)

    If an old Member State stops using national law measures and moves to free movement of workers under Community law, there is a possibility to re-impose restrictions if there are serious disturbances on the labour market, or the threat thereof. These "safeguard" clauses have always featured in accession Treaties, but have never been invoked. Therefore the Commission has no practical experience in their operation. However, it is clear that the Commission would expect a Member State to put forward convincing proof of a high level of disturbance on the labour market, in order to justify seeking to re-impose a restriction on free movement of workers, one of the four fundamental freedoms under the EC Treaty*. This same comment will apply to the use of the safeguard clause as between the new Member States (under paragraph 11).

    We should push Brussels to implement the above, regarding the free movement of labour from the accession states into Ireland.


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    #77
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    PaulieD wrote: »
    We should push Brussels to implement the above, regarding the free movement of labour from the accession states into Ireland.

    Surely you mean that we should push Brussels to implement the above irrespective of where in the EU the workers are coming from.

    The basis for objection has to be major disturbance in our labour markets.

    If we can allow a small influx, then we should put controls in place against all EU nations and assign the limited places fairly.

    If we can't allow any influx, then we need the controls in place against all nations.

    Arguing, however, that there's no issue with someone from the UK (for example) taking a job in Ireland, but there is an issue with someone from the accession states filling the same job...that's not arguing to protect our labour market...its arguing to discriminate on the basis of nationality.


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    #78
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    You are not over qualified to work in a shop. Just because you have a degree does not make you suitable to work in the retail industry - especially above those who have relevant training & experience in that industry.

    As for Lisbon = Jobs. No.

    You don't need a degree to work that one out.


    Excuse you me i worked in that industry while i got my degrees for 10 years or more and now my degrees are not getting me a job due to the recession that's fair enough,but neither is my experience either in jobs i can do with my eyes closed.While people who have very bad English are getting them without problems?
    So don't spout about something you have no clue.So people who apparently were teachers etc.. back home in their own countries now working in shops are qualified and experienced when they can barely speak never mind read or write in english?
    You did not ask me if i was experienced in that area.I have managed shops also and went for a job as counter staff and guess what 80% of the staff who are working in the shop hired were non Irish(EVEN THOUGH I HAVE PROVEN JOB REFERENCES) .And trust me i am a very nice person.I have no problem with them getting jobs but come on,Where is the jobs for the people who have worked here all their lives?


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    #79
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    I got the impression from your opening post that you did not think that Non-Irish people should get jobs ahead of Irish people. Correct me if I have picked that up wrong.

    I can understand you veiw point to a certain extent, but its worth considering that if we were to apply restrictions to other in Europe they would apply the same to us. Also, I think morally that we couldn't expect to be allowed to emmigrate to the UK and elsewhere and than get upset when people come here.


    No no that's not what i mean sorry to any non national who feels i am dogging on you.I have many a friend who is not Irish and they are good at their jobs.I do believe to a certain extent there should be in place a protection for the Irish national and i would have no problem with the same been enforced in other countries.
    How many Irish people do you know who have gone abroad to these countries unless high powered jobs to get a job?
    I have asked i think three times already show me statistics of how many Irish people have gained jobs in in these countries that are benefiting from Ireland and living here?


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    #80
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    caseyann wrote: »
    No no that's not what i mean sorry to any non national who feels i am dogging on you.I have many a friend who is not Irish and they are good at their jobs.I do believe to a certain extent there should be in place a protection for the Irish national and i would have no problem with the same been enforced in other countries.
    How many Irish people do you know who have gone abroad to these countries unless high powered jobs to get a job?
    I have asked i think three times already show me statistics of how many Irish people have gained jobs in in these countries that are benefiting from Ireland and living here?

    you are the one making claims

    the onus is on you to show figures

    ;)


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    #81
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    you are the one making claims

    the onus is on you to show figures

    ;)

    No i beg to differ :p

    I have people claiming like for like so show me how Irish have benefited from it and how they would get jobs easily also in the these countries?

    Also i have looked and can not find :D

    p.s apology accepted :) thanks


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    #82
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    caseyann wrote: »
    No i beg to differ :p

    I have people claiming like for like so show me how Irish have benefited from it and how they would get jobs easily also in the these countries?

    Also i have looked and can not find :D

    p.s apology accepted :) thanks

    in that case whoever is claiming things should provide references to backup statements

    but if you want some figures, check this out

    What's Europe Ever Done For Us?

    alot of facts and figures there like

    * Average Wage Increased from 60% of EU average to 138% Since 1973
    * A Million New Jobs Since 1973
    * More Opportunity for Women in the Workforce - Significantly, the number of women in the workforce has risen from 27% in 1973 to more than 42% today.
    * €60 Billion in EU Funding Since 1973

    think about it

    and please note whichever way you vote in Lisbon it wont affect your position in short term, but in long term you are hurting yourself and the country




    also lets put things into perspective your whole thread is based on "what has the EU done for me" line of thinking

    this year the government is gonna be 20-30billion down (taxes - weflare/public sector)

    ask yourself where will that 20-30billion materialize to pay welfare and ps? ;)

    /


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    #83
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    in that case whoever is claiming things should provide references to backup statements

    but if you want some figures, check this out

    What's Europe Ever Done For Us?

    alot of facts and figures there



    also lets put things into perspective your whole thread is based on "what has the EU done for me" line of thinking

    this year the government is gonna be 20-30billion down (taxes - weflare/public sector)

    ask yourself where will that 20-30billion materialize to pay welfare and ps? ;)

    /

    I am well aware of what EU has helped out with in Ireland Thanks.

    Why are you quoting me what welfare will get.That's not what i am talking about.

    I am asking for figures about Irish people going abroad to these countries,how many have been given jobs in the sectors they are getting here? While the Irish are not getting a look in.

    Some one said the Irish worker are not willing to do them jobs that they were.That is complete bull.

    I have not asked what the EU has done for me,I am asking what they intend to do about this lackadaisy attitude with the Irish workers not getting work and how they will protect the Irish worker from been over looked.

    Question for you have you ever lived off 200 euro a week and ran a house and bills on it?


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    #84
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    caseyann wrote: »
    How many Irish people do you know who have gone abroad to these countries unless high powered jobs to get a job?
    I have asked i think three times already show me statistics of how many Irish people have gained jobs in in these countries that are benefiting from Ireland and living here?

    I am not sure if such statistics exist. However, I have worked in other EU states in jobs that are not 'high end'. Many Irish students take a year to study in France or Germany or Spain. During that time many seek part time jobs in shops, cafés etc.

    By its very nature it is hard to measure part time/casual employment.

    I'm slightly confused by what you are saying. On one hand you say you know many non-Irish people here that are good at their jobs and that you think it good that Irish people can go abroad and work. However you seem to think that restrictions should be in place to positively discriminate towards Irish workers.


    Do you believe that an employer should be forced to employ an Irish people ahead of a German?


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    #85
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    caseyann wrote: »
    I have not asked what the EU has done for me,I am asking what they intend to do about this lackadaisy attitude with the Irish workers not getting work and how they will protect the Irish worker from been over looked.

    The freedom of movement and goods and people is central to the EU. There is no proposal in the Lisbon treaty that will allow one nationality to be favoured over another. Nor is that likely ever to happen in the future. Even by voting No this situation will continue.

    They only way we can stop people from Germany, France of Poland coming here is to pull out of the EU (and EEA) altogether. That would mean having to leave the Euro currency and giving up our ability to trade freely with other European countries. While there might appear to be some short term benefit, in the long term it would be an economic disaster for Ireland.


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    #86
    ixtlan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭ixtlan


    caseyann wrote: »

    I have people claiming like for like so show me how Irish have benefited from it and how they would get jobs easily also in the these countries?

    Well you do have something of a valid point in that Irish people and British people are reluctant to learn a new language and go to a foreign country to work. They can do so if they wish, but usually they don't wish.

    What you should carefully consider though, is that if the EU states started claiming that EU immigration was causing massive labour distortions and if some kind of restrictions were put in place, it's highly likely that the UK would put restrictions in place on Irish immigrants. Why not? The elements in the UK who would push policies like this are not going to do the Irish any favours. Remember that Libertas was pushing a blue card system for people in Northern Ireland and the UK wanting to work in Ireland and vice versa. I'm sure we would all be very upset if such restrictions were put in place.

    The reality is that EU immigration is not going to be a problem in the future for Ireland. There was a massive influx to Ireland over the past 5 years, but remember we wanted those people. We needed them. In fact we pulled them over here. Fas was actively trying to get people in the accession states to come.

    I and many others would argue that the government was foolish to promote this boom/bubble, not because of the influx, which was just a side effect, but because it was unsustainable and always going to end in tears. To clarify though I think allowing the new EU member states access was OK, and not so many would have come if the economy were not booming.

    Now, we have a painful adjustment. Some of the immigrants will go home to get work, but some have made lives here and will stay, as they are perfectly entitled to. In the next few years we are not going to have many new immigrants because jobs will be scarce, so restrictions now will only hurt us because we will be the ones seeking opportunities elsewhere. It would be illegal, unjust, unfair, immoral and stupid to attempt any forced re-patriation of EU nationals living here who want to stay. Hopefully when the economy picks up they will help us to rebuild some confidence in Ireland and their links with the new states whose economies are likely to grow much faster than ours may be crucial in recovery.

    Ix.


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    #87
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    caseyann wrote: »
    Question for you have you ever lived off 200 euro a week and ran a house and bills on it?

    actually i lived on less than 200 a week and had to work for it scrubbing pots and pans, beans noodles and buckfast ftw :D


    caseyann wrote: »
    I am well aware of what EU has helped out with in Ireland Thanks.

    good It needs to be pointed out, that on balance EU membership has been of great economic help to this country

    caseyann wrote: »
    Why are you quoting me what welfare will get.That's not what i am talking about.

    you need to be aware of where the money to pay your welfare comes from

    caseyann wrote: »
    I am asking for figures about Irish people going abroad to these countries,how many have been given jobs in the sectors they are getting here? While the Irish are not getting a look in.

    I dont have these figures, neither am i the one who brought that point up, but alot of my friends are moving to UK (and even Spain!) now and got nice jobs there, people were emigrating from this country for decades, you be hard press to find and Irish person who doesnt know someone who made it good for themselves in the free market

    caseyann wrote: »
    Some one said the Irish worker are not willing to do them jobs that they were.That is complete bull.

    there are signs for several restaurants in galway looking for people, restaurants with mostly non irish employees, despite the recession these jobs are too dirty for some, why work for 350 a week flipping burgers when you get more on welfare for doing nothing

    caseyann wrote: »
    I have not asked what the EU has done for me,I am asking what they intend to do about this lackadaisy attitude with the Irish workers not getting work and how they will protect the Irish worker from been over looked.

    The EU just handed 20+ million to Dell workers for retraining, something that they didnt have to do, btw Lisbon commits all the governments to full employment


    /


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    #88
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    I am not sure if such statistics exist. However, I have worked in other EU states in jobs that are not 'high end'. Many Irish students take a year to study in France or Germany or Spain. During that time many seek part time jobs in shops, cafés etc.

    By its very nature it is hard to measure part time/casual employment.

    I'm slightly confused by what you are saying. On one hand you say you know many non-Irish people here that are good at their jobs and that you think it good that Irish people can go abroad and work. However you seem to think that restrictions should be in place to positively discriminate towards Irish workers.


    Do you believe that an employer should be forced to employ an Irish people ahead of a German?
    I believe if the Irish person has the experience then yes,when plentiful work no and ofc level of qualifications and experience..If already in a job with recession i don't think they should be discriminated against either and sacked before the Irish person.Judged by English standard and work standard then decision made.
    If lets say the Irish worker and German worker are doing same job,and the Irish worker takes more sick days or does not work as hard then they should be let go first.
    But going abroad to work in cafes and shops for a time is completely different to having full time work and living here non stop in the thousands. What country is Irish in the thousands living and working full time barr the obvious. Don't you think? When would you walk into a city in Germany and see majority of workers Irish over the Germans or any other country for the matter.


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    #89
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    actually i lived on less than 200 a week and had to work for it scrubbing pots and pans, beans noodles and buckfast ftw :D





    good It needs to be pointed out, that on balance EU membership has been of great economic help to this country




    you need to be aware of where the money to pay your welfare comes from




    I dont have these figures, neither am i the one who brought that point up, but alot of my friends are moving to UK (and even Spain!) now and got nice jobs there, people were emigrating from this country for decades, you be hard press to find and Irish person who doesnt know someone who made it good for themselves in the free market




    there are signs for several restaurants in galway looking for people, restaurants with mostly non irish employees, despite the recession these jobs are too dirty for some, why work for 350 a week flipping burgers when you get more on welfare for doing nothing




    The EU just handed 20+ million to Dell workers for retraining, something that they didnt have to do, btw Lisbon commits all the governments to full employment


    /

    And where did you live while living off less then 200 a week and how long ago was that ;)

    My welfare comes from my taxes and stamps i have paid thanks very much ;)

    Not in the thousands ;)

    Unfortunately i do not live in Galway:( And i know many many a Irish person who would do them jobs.I would not be surprised if you will find some here moving to galway to get them jobs if they see that ;)

    And where is Dell going now? :D


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    #90
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    caseyann wrote: »
    I believe if the Irish person has the experience then yes,when plentiful work no and ofc level of qualifications and experience..If already in a job with recession i don't think they should be discriminated against either and sacked before the Irish person.Judged by English standard and work standard then decision made.
    If lets say the Irish worker and German worker are doing same job,and the Irish worker takes more sick days or does not work as hard then they should be let go first.
    But going abroad to work in cafes and shops for a time is completely different to having full time work and living here non stop in the thousands. What country is Irish in the thousands living and working full time barr the obvious. Don't you think? When would you walk into a city in Germany and see majority if workers Irish over the Germans or any other country for the matter.

    When would you walk into a city in Ireland and see a majority of workers of any nationality but Irish?

    And as you allude to, but avoid saying, we live in our tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands in the UK. Certainly the figure gets into the the millions when you take those who declare 'Irish' as their ethnicity.


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    #91
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ixtlan wrote: »
    Well you do have something of a valid point in that Irish people and British people are reluctant to learn a new language and go to a foreign country to work. They can do so if they wish, but usually they don't wish.

    What you should carefully consider though, is that if the EU states started claiming that EU immigration was causing massive labour distortions and if some kind of restrictions were put in place, it's highly likely that the UK would put restrictions in place on Irish immigrants. Why not? The elements in the UK who would push policies like this are not going to do the Irish any favours. Remember that Libertas was pushing a blue card system for people in Northern Ireland and the UK wanting to work in Ireland and vice versa. I'm sure we would all be very upset if such restrictions were put in place.

    The reality is that EU immigration is not going to be a problem in the future for Ireland. There was a massive influx to Ireland over the past 5 years, but remember we wanted those people. We needed them. In fact we pulled them over here. Fas was actively trying to get people in the accession states to come.

    I and many others would argue that the government was foolish to promote this boom/bubble, not because of the influx, which was just a side effect, but because it was unsustainable and always going to end in tears. To clarify though I think allowing the new EU member states access was OK, and not so many would have come if the economy were not booming.

    Now, we have a painful adjustment. Some of the immigrants will go home to get work, but some have made lives here and will stay, as they are perfectly entitled to. In the next few years we are not going to have many new immigrants because jobs will be scarce, so restrictions now will only hurt us because we will be the ones seeking opportunities elsewhere. It would be illegal, unjust, unfair, immoral and stupid to attempt any forced re-patriation of EU nationals living here who want to stay. Hopefully when the economy picks up they will help us to rebuild some confidence in Ireland and their links with the new states whose economies are likely to grow much faster than ours may be crucial in recovery.

    Ix.

    Thanks :)
    I was never saying to repatronize the ones who have made a real life for themselves here.ofc the ones who have made proper structured lives here and intend to stay for many years to come are welcome.

    I still think there should a limit to who and what they are allowed to come in for sorry thats how i feel.
    They should not have been allowed willie nillie to come into the country and go for jobs in shops etc.... they were not needed for them sectors.
    Construction,engineering management chemistry areas were other languages are needed etc... fair enough.


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