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What Is This Lisbon Treaty All About?

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  • 11-08-2009 12:30am
    #1
    IRockUrSocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭


    Personally, I've read a few leaflets on it but they are just as misleading as they were a few months ago. Can anybody really make it clear to us what the pro's and con's are? Fianna Fail sure are having a hard time doing that...

    What Will You Vote On In The Lisbon Treaty? 178 votes

    YES
    0% 0 votes
    NO
    41% 74 votes
    UNDECIDED
    44% 80 votes
    Not Voting
    13% 24 votes


«13456

Comments

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    #2
    shenanigans1982
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    Proving democracy is a sham.


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    #3
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Cons: Few to none, dependant on your viewpoint.

    Pros: *paging Sam Vimes to After Hours*


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    #4
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    It is about how the EU is to be organised, in short.


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    #5
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    shenanigans1982 wrote: »
    Proving democracy is a sham.

    A good thing we get to vote on that then!


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    #6
    Agent J
    Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭Agent J


    "If at first you don't succeed...."


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    #7
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    It's about giving people the chance to vote yes to the Treaty, it's very democratic.

    And if we vote no we'll get another chance to vote yes again.

    Choice is good and it's great that we get to vote the second time, we obviously didn't know the full story the first time - we messed up by voting no.


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    #8
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    I like to leave threads like this for a day or two, come back when they are naturally at 20+ pages, then read the first and last posts.

    Its always fun


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    #9
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    It's basically a referendum on conscription, abortion, aaaaaaaannnnddd....... let's say slavery, all rolled into one. I'd vote no if I were you.


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    #10
    shenanigans1982
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    A good thing we get to vote on that then!

    And I'm sure we will get to vote again if the government don't get the result they want.


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    #11
    Senna
    Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    If you vote yes there will be forced abortions for all, any kids that do slip through will be conscripted into the army and forced to watch "Platoon" because its more realistic than the Irish army.

    For god sakes VOTE UNDECIDED!!!!!


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    #12
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Dave! wrote: »
    It's basically a referendum on conscription, abortion, aaaaaaaannnnddd....... let's say slavery, all rolled into one. I'd vote no if I were you.


    Stop scaremongering.

    I heard that somewhere on teh internet there are 10 good reasons to vote yes.

    That's good enough for me.


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    #13
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    why everytime abortion and conscription is mentioned on these lisbon treaty it always seems to be the yes side bringing them up


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    #14
    Senna
    Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    utick wrote: »
    why everytime abortion and conscription is mentioned on these lisbon treaty it always seems to be the yes side bringing them up

    Because when most people were asked why they voted no the first time, they said one of the two.


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    #15
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Not surprising at all that Sinn Fein has stuck to its policy of last year on a NO vote.

    Gerry Adams correctly quoted “The people said no. Exactly the same treaty is being presented once again.” he also stated that it was a "bad treaty" and put it to the people not to be swayed by propaganda and the current economic climate.

    With Libertas gone Sinn Féin now looks set to be the only remaining well financed voice in the anti-Lisbon camp.

    Last year, the party’s key arguments against the treaty were claims it would end Ireland’s automatic right to a commissioner, it would erode neutrality and undermine workers’ rights

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0810/breaking1.htm


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    #16
    Purple Gorilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭Purple Gorilla


    Pro's:
    Gives more power to the European Parliament which means all those crying out about Lisbon being Anti-democratic are pretty much wrong. The European Parliament is the part of the EU that you directly elect so they have more accountability. It also just generally increases the amount of democracy in the EU by making things more open.

    New Qualified Majority Voting is more balanced towards smaller states like Ireland so the bigger states like Germany and France can't just pass legislation they want.

    Unified Energy Policy so instead of 27 different small countries trying to negotiate with Russia for gas, oil etc. we will have the EU negotiating as one. This means we'll have a much better voice on the world stage so we won't see the fiasco that happened last christmas with Russia cutting off gas to Europe.

    Cons:
    We will transfer more areas where we rule, to the EU for Qualified Majority Voting. It doesn't mean we won't have a say, it just means that all the countries in the EU will vote on the legislation and the majority wins.

    That's pretty much it as far as I can see... I'm too lazy to list anymore pros/cons


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    #17
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,133 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    Vote No?


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    #18
    IRockUrSocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭IRockUrSocks


    So judgment day is not upon us if we vote yes. It seems Sinn Fein understands the concept of giving our liberties and voice away when we have fought for one for 800 years is a little bit on the idiocy side of things.

    Will a yes vote mean one E.U superstate military etc?

    As far as the Catholic church's take on things, I'm not for their point of view. Yes, we were reared to believe abortion is wrong but why on earth should we live our lives by ancient teachings?


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    #19
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    I really hate contemporary politics. Its just all too silly.

    For me sovereignty means the power to tell young fellas to go over the top.
    Personally, I refuse to authorise that call.:D:D:D:D


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    #20
    Purple Gorilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭Purple Gorilla


    It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

    And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.


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    #21
    Hola_Bola
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Hola_Bola


    Purple Gorilla wrote: »
    It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

    And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.

    thats a pity. i was looking forward to a powerful military that could challenge the united states


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    #22
    IRockUrSocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭IRockUrSocks


    Purple Gorilla wrote: »
    It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

    And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.

    That sounds reasonable.


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    #23
    Dankoozy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Dankoozy


    The single-state Europe followed by the NWO and the eventual creation of the Matrix


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    #24
    Dankoozy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭Dankoozy


    Hola_Bola wrote: »
    thats a pity. i was looking forward to a powerful military that could challenge the united states

    thats China's military

    and the yanks have enough challenges of their own..


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    #25
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    IRockUrSocks wrote: »
    That sounds reasonable.

    It sure does.

    You can trust the Germans, top blokes.


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    #26
    Purple Gorilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭Purple Gorilla


    TBH, The German Constitutional Court ruling was so positive because it showed that the EU can't and won't just be expanding into a Federal State without objections. Germany, the EU's biggest and most prominent state, showed that it can't go further than a Union of Soveriegn countries without the consent of the people.

    A Federal Europe would nullify German Basic Law and to do that it requires a referendum. I'm also sure that it's similar among many other EU states. Germany, and now Ireland, have gone as far as to pass (well, will pass) new legislation that will give our parliament and the German Parliament more foresight on EU issues.


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    #27
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Abortions for some ... I for one welcome our new...

    Argh!


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    #28
    Darlughda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭Darlughda


    I know I know, I should not be in the politics forum...

    anyway, remember Neville Chamberlain's 'Peace in our Time'.

    Maybe I inhabit a different life/space continum from you lot, but this Lisbon Treaty business is BAD NEWS.

    Look, we are in a mess in this country the way we are. germany and the other euro characters are not interested in saving us, no matter how much we say we are sorry, are guilty for our sins, and promise to vote the right way next time.like the bold teenagers of Europe.

    No male baby I cuddle in my arms today is ever going to be forced to fight in organised murder if I can help it. That is why I am voting NO to Lisbon.


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    #29
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Do you people want a united europe? Would you welcome the idea of Europe being a super power? I think we need the EU now more than ever. Maybe if we vote yes, the tossers that we have in power might be a thing of the past? Maybe the country will be run right? Maybe the little guy working his ass off just to live with be given more respect?

    I think this is the way forward. I think it's best for our country to vote yes... :eek:


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    #30
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Leilani Happy Moon wrote: »

    I think this is the way forward. I think it's best for our country to vote yes... :eek:

    Yes, plus only Sinn Fein suporters and people who are ignorant of the facts vote No.


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    #31
    Purple Gorilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭Purple Gorilla


    Darlughda wrote: »
    I know I know, I should not be in the politics forum...

    anyway, remember Neville Chamberlain's 'Peace in our Time'.

    Maybe I inhabit a different life/space continum from you lot, but this Lisbon Treaty business is BAD NEWS.

    Look, we are in a mess in this country the way we are. germany and the other euro characters are not interested in saving us, no matter how much we say we are sorry, are guilty for our sins, and promise to vote the right way next time.like the bold teenagers of Europe.

    No male baby I cuddle in my arms today is ever going to be forced to fight in organised murder if I can help it. That is why I am voting NO to Lisbon.
    What? What are you talking about?

    You really think that Ostricising Ireland from the rest of the EU will make our problems any better? You really need to listen to some of the heads of the multi-nationals there. They said that they will be watching this referendum closely and that a no vote could hamper future FDI from the states


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