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What Is This Lisbon Treaty All About?

IRockUrSocks

Personally, I've read a few leaflets on it but they are just as misleading as they were a few months ago. Can anybody really make it clear to us what the pro's and con's are? Fianna Fail sure are having a hard time doing that...

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shenanigans1982

Proving democracy is a sham.

tolosenc

Cons: Few to none, dependant on your viewpoint.

Pros: *paging Sam Vimes to After Hours*

ChocolateSauce

It is about how the EU is to be organised, in short.

ChocolateSauce

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Proving democracy is a sham.

A good thing we get to vote on that then!

Agent J

"If at first you don't succeed...."

TheZohanS

It's about giving people the chance to vote yes to the Treaty, it's very democratic.

And if we vote no we'll get another chance to vote yes again.

Choice is good and it's great that we get to vote the second time, we obviously didn't know the full story the first time - we messed up by voting no.

Ostrom

I like to leave threads like this for a day or two, come back when they are naturally at 20+ pages, then read the first and last posts.

Its always fun

Dave!

It's basically a referendum on conscription, abortion, aaaaaaaannnnddd....... let's say slavery, all rolled into one. I'd vote no if I were you.

shenanigans1982

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

A good thing we get to vote on that then!

And I'm sure we will get to vote again if the government don't get the result they want.

Senna

If you vote yes there will be forced abortions for all, any kids that do slip through will be conscripted into the army and forced to watch "Platoon" because its more realistic than the Irish army.

For god sakes VOTE UNDECIDED!!!!!

TheZohanS

Dave! wrote: »

It's basically a referendum on conscription, abortion, aaaaaaaannnnddd....... let's say slavery, all rolled into one. I'd vote no if I were you.

Stop scaremongering.

I heard that somewhere on teh internet there are 10 good reasons to vote yes.

That's good enough for me.

utick

why everytime abortion and conscription is mentioned on these lisbon treaty it always seems to be the yes side bringing them up

Senna

utick wrote: »

why everytime abortion and conscription is mentioned on these lisbon treaty it always seems to be the yes side bringing them up

Because when most people were asked why they voted no the first time, they said one of the two.

Run_to_da_hills

Not surprising at all that Sinn Fein has stuck to its policy of last year on a NO vote.

Gerry Adams correctly quoted “The people said no. Exactly the same treaty is being presented once again.” he also stated that it was a "bad treaty" and put it to the people not to be swayed by propaganda and the current economic climate.

With Libertas gone Sinn Féin now looks set to be the only remaining well financed voice in the anti-Lisbon camp.

Last year, the party’s key arguments against the treaty were claims it would end Ireland’s automatic right to a commissioner, it would erode neutrality and undermine workers’ rights

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0810/breaking1.htm

Purple Gorilla

Pro's:
Gives more power to the European Parliament which means all those crying out about Lisbon being Anti-democratic are pretty much wrong. The European Parliament is the part of the EU that you directly elect so they have more accountability. It also just generally increases the amount of democracy in the EU by making things more open.

New Qualified Majority Voting is more balanced towards smaller states like Ireland so the bigger states like Germany and France can't just pass legislation they want.

Unified Energy Policy so instead of 27 different small countries trying to negotiate with Russia for gas, oil etc. we will have the EU negotiating as one. This means we'll have a much better voice on the world stage so we won't see the fiasco that happened last christmas with Russia cutting off gas to Europe.

Cons:
We will transfer more areas where we rule, to the EU for Qualified Majority Voting. It doesn't mean we won't have a say, it just means that all the countries in the EU will vote on the legislation and the majority wins.

That's pretty much it as far as I can see... I'm too lazy to list anymore pros/cons

cherryghost

Vote No?

IRockUrSocks

So judgment day is not upon us if we vote yes. It seems Sinn Fein understands the concept of giving our liberties and voice away when we have fought for one for 800 years is a little bit on the idiocy side of things.

Will a yes vote mean one E.U superstate military etc?

As far as the Catholic church's take on things, I'm not for their point of view. Yes, we were reared to believe abortion is wrong but why on earth should we live our lives by ancient teachings?

Darlughda

I really hate contemporary politics. Its just all too silly.

For me sovereignty means the power to tell young fellas to go over the top.
Personally, I refuse to authorise that call.:D:D:D:D

Purple Gorilla

It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.

Hola_Bola

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.

thats a pity. i was looking forward to a powerful military that could challenge the united states

IRockUrSocks

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

It won't mean one E.U Superstate anything. The German Constitutional Court spent months reviewing the Lisbon Treaty and basically said that this could be the last Treaty of the EU of it's kind. It said that there are certain areas which must remain in the power of sovereign states and it basically ruled out any EU Superstate.

And yes, military was one of the areas which it said must remain with each soveriegn state. There can be no EU Military.

That sounds reasonable.

Dankoozy

The single-state Europe followed by the NWO and the eventual creation of the Matrix

Dankoozy

Hola_Bola wrote: »

thats a pity. i was looking forward to a powerful military that could challenge the united states

thats China's military

and the yanks have enough challenges of their own..

TheZohanS

IRockUrSocks wrote: »

That sounds reasonable.

It sure does.

You can trust the Germans, top blokes.

Purple Gorilla

TBH, The German Constitutional Court ruling was so positive because it showed that the EU can't and won't just be expanding into a Federal State without objections. Germany, the EU's biggest and most prominent state, showed that it can't go further than a Union of Soveriegn countries without the consent of the people.

A Federal Europe would nullify German Basic Law and to do that it requires a referendum. I'm also sure that it's similar among many other EU states. Germany, and now Ireland, have gone as far as to pass (well, will pass) new legislation that will give our parliament and the German Parliament more foresight on EU issues.

bleg

Abortions for some ... I for one welcome our new...

Argh!

Darlughda

I know I know, I should not be in the politics forum...

anyway, remember Neville Chamberlain's 'Peace in our Time'.

Maybe I inhabit a different life/space continum from you lot, but this Lisbon Treaty business is BAD NEWS.

Look, we are in a mess in this country the way we are. germany and the other euro characters are not interested in saving us, no matter how much we say we are sorry, are guilty for our sins, and promise to vote the right way next time.like the bold teenagers of Europe.

No male baby I cuddle in my arms today is ever going to be forced to fight in organised murder if I can help it. That is why I am voting NO to Lisbon.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Do you people want a united europe? Would you welcome the idea of Europe being a super power? I think we need the EU now more than ever. Maybe if we vote yes, the tossers that we have in power might be a thing of the past? Maybe the country will be run right? Maybe the little guy working his ass off just to live with be given more respect?

I think this is the way forward. I think it's best for our country to vote yes... :eek:

TheZohanS

Leilani Happy Moon wrote: »

I think this is the way forward. I think it's best for our country to vote yes... :eek:

Yes, plus only Sinn Fein suporters and people who are ignorant of the facts vote No.

Purple Gorilla

Darlughda wrote: »

I know I know, I should not be in the politics forum...

anyway, remember Neville Chamberlain's 'Peace in our Time'.

Maybe I inhabit a different life/space continum from you lot, but this Lisbon Treaty business is BAD NEWS.

Look, we are in a mess in this country the way we are. germany and the other euro characters are not interested in saving us, no matter how much we say we are sorry, are guilty for our sins, and promise to vote the right way next time.like the bold teenagers of Europe.

No male baby I cuddle in my arms today is ever going to be forced to fight in organised murder if I can help it. That is why I am voting NO to Lisbon.

What? What are you talking about?

You really think that Ostricising Ireland from the rest of the EU will make our problems any better? You really need to listen to some of the heads of the multi-nationals there. They said that they will be watching this referendum closely and that a no vote could hamper future FDI from the states