M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Lennoxschips · 13-05-2009 10:55pm

Anybody travelling from Limerick to Kerry would be mad to take it.

So in 15 years local politicians will demand a northern bypass to relieve Adare of heavy traffic. Then they will have a ring road!

Only in Ireland....

Tech3 · 13-05-2009 11:07pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Anybody travelling from Limerick to Kerry would be mad to take it.

So in 15 years local politicians will demand a northern bypass to relieve Adare of heavy traffic. Then they will have a ring road!

Only in Ireland....

Would agree. Especially at off peak times Adare is not a bottleneck. But ......... ramps or traffic lights will be implemented into the town to put traffic off the road. Look at the dock road in Limerick City for example throwing traffic lights on the roads knowing in advance that the N7 ring road will be completed next year in order to put people on the toll plaza.

Irish and Proud · 17-05-2009 2:11pm

mysterious wrote: »

...well seeing that it's the Adare Blue(s :rolleyes:) route they're going for, they may as well not do the N21 Adare Bypass at all. Either your route or the Black route would do a pretty good job. Also, the Blue route is the worst - it's the longest to get to from Limerick, seems the longest alignment itself, and it has the worst junction alignments at both ends - are we going to have a stupid dumb bell (very apt I must say!

) junction with the M20, plus a TOTSO roundabout at the N21 tie-in.

Muppets! :mad:

Regards!

cjpm · 21-05-2009 1:20pm

Apperantly M20 CPO delayed by 6 months and public consultation by 1 month... due to changes at Croom...

Chris_533976 · 21-05-2009 6:27pm

Any more news? What sort of changes are we talking about?

BluntGuy · 21-05-2009 6:54pm

cjpm wrote: »

Apperantly M20 CPO delayed by 6 months and public consultation by 1 month... due to changes at Croom...

Where did you hear this?

clon · 20-07-2009 7:06pm

The preferred route is now up on the CRDO website for the entire new M20.It shows all the juntion from Blarney to Patrickswell.It also lays out the juntion for the Adare bypass.

First section Blarney to Buttevant.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

Second section Buttevant to Patrickswell

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_03_04.pdf

mysterious · 20-07-2009 7:16pm

That Adare bypass is usless.

I will be going through Adare.

That route is at least 5km miles longer and it ends at a rounabout and snakes away from the general direction of destination.

NRA. = ****ing thick.

Tech3 · 20-07-2009 7:34pm

I think the Adare bypass should be made dual carriageway, AADT shows that it is needed dual with a free flow junction to the M20. Its a crap design.

Anyway it doesnt really matter as the M20 is pushed so far back now on the PPP list we wont see it going ahead for a long time. Of course that is not to say the other PPP's will certainly get funding probably not the way things are.

I think the M20 should be prioritised as its a dreadful road, an absolute disgrace linking the republics second and thrid largest cities.

Chris_533976 · 20-07-2009 8:21pm

I think its best that we keep the truth about the M20/N21 (Adare junction) secret from Mysterious for now. I think he'd have a heart attack if he saw the images.

mysterious · 20-07-2009 10:49pm

I seen it.

Afterall all the publicity about NRAs really bad record on designing interchanges. Why the hell do they repeat the same bloody mistake?

WTF is wrong with them?

nordydan · 20-07-2009 10:52pm

mysterious wrote: »

That Adare bypass is usless.

I will be going through Adare.

I have to agree with this. I put the link up on SABRE a few days ago, bypass is so bad that except for rush hour it probably will be quicker to go through adare

mysterious · 20-07-2009 11:18pm

nordydan wrote: »

I have to agree with this. I put the link up on SABRE a few days ago, bypass is so bad that except for rush hour it probably will be quicker to go through adare

Even if its slow going through Adare it would be quicker.

Did you ever play snakes and ladders? Do you realise the nuisance of this route selection? Why would you bring the Adare bypass to Croom? Who in hell would of thought 5 months ago the Adare bypass would end up on a interchange in Croom. You have to then stop at a Roundabout then head vertical up the M20.

The bypass is pointless.

KevR · 20-07-2009 11:23pm

mysterious wrote: »

I seen it.

Afterall all the publicity about NRAs really bad record on designing interchanges. Why the hell do they repeat the same bloody mistake?

WTF is wrong with them?

Would these roads have all been designed at roughly the same time? It is despairing that the interchange mistakes are there for all to see on some of the routes which are finished/open and yet the NRA aren't willing to correct these mistakes for future routes.

mysterious · 20-07-2009 11:26pm

KevR wrote: »

Would these roads have all been designed at roughly the same time? It is despairing that the interchange mistakes are there for all to see on some of the routes which are finished/open and yet the NRA aren't willing to correct these mistakes for future routes.

If Victor allowed swearing on this forum.

I be would cursing the NRA out of it.

Not Really Able

Tech3 · 20-07-2009 11:41pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

A simple M20/M21 fork would suffice at the Eastern end - if not, a freeflow trumpet similar to the one at St Nessan's (R510) further up the N20 would be the perfect job.

I agree something like this would be sufficent if its only being built 2+2. Although I would rather have M21-M20 freeflow and then a GSJ at the south of Adare if the NRA saw the light and made the Adare Bypass HQDC.

Sponge Bob · 20-07-2009 11:58pm

anyone get the impression the NRA is trying to kill M20 and the ( rather short) M21 in one fell swoop ??

Zoney · 21-07-2009 12:04am

Not only is the planned junction for the Adare bypass a problem, but considering it could be who knows how long before it is built (or at the very least it seems M20 will be first), the junction for the existing N21 needs to pretty much be freeflow - as we may be using it for some time to come.

Whatever about traffic volumes on the N21 through Adare needing DC or not, the fact is that the majority of traffic near Patrickswell (current N20/N21 junction) is between N21 and N20, not N20 and N20.

I can understand the wish to dispense with the "TOTSO" arrangement there is at present but crappy roundabouts is a HUGE step backwards.

The current junction is pretty much a trumpet after all - one can pretty much ignore the R526 connection.

Spongebob: Actually I just think it's ineptitude.

Tech3 · 21-07-2009 12:16am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

anyone get the impression the NRA is trying to kill M20 and the ( rather short) M21 in one fell swoop ??

They are slowly, the PPP's were revised it was posted on the N18 thread about this. It has been pushed way back now, the N11 second PPP and the Galway Outer Bypass are now ahead of it.

See this: http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/PublicPrivatePartnership/file,16119,en.pdf

Its not even in the second programme of PPP's now !!!

mysterious · 21-07-2009 1:49am

Okay we all know the Adare bypass is not that "good". I mean we know it goes completely offline and goes in the direction of Croom and not Limerick and we know that that the Adare bypass ends at a roundabout and then proceeds back up north up the M20. We also know the Adare bypass has so many bends on it you'd think you were drving it for hours.

Well I've decided to upload a map that includes phase 2. This will make phase 1 look perfect altogether.

I've included roundabouts in Phase 2 the roundabout has a circumferance of 2mile radius ( you get spectacular views of the shannon)

Phase 3.
Tullamore metro. ( I can't think that far ahead)

I say push on with this fantastic plan. Forgive me for not spending so much time elaborating on my drawings. I don't have millions to spend on presentations like the ones the T21have done.

I'm just so proud of this.:) I think the Adare bypass should eventually join up with the Atlantic tunnel aswel imo.

If anyone wants the CPO of this just email me.:)

mysterious · 21-07-2009 3:48am

NRA, do you see this.

this is what should be done.

Irish and Proud · 21-07-2009 11:19am

mysterious wrote: »

That Adare bypass is usless.

I will be going through Adare.

That route is at least 5km miles longer and it ends at a rounabout and snakes away from the general direction of destination.

NRA. = ****ing thick.

+1

Stupid Stupid Stupid!!! :mad:

Your own route made sense, and so did the black route North of Adare. However, I'd just stick with the Black route at this stage - would adding a couple of freeflow slips at Patrickswell (to the proposed design there) cost more than the proposed rotary near Croom?

Regards!

Irish and Proud · 21-07-2009 11:26am

mysterious wrote: »

NRA, do you see this.

this is what should be done.

Certainly better, but do we really need that rotary with your freeflow layout (M21 East to M20 North and M20 South to M21 West) - IMO, one bridge there (instead of the rotary) with a freeflow M20 North to M21 West direct left and a freeflow loop M21 East to M20 South might do the job better than what the NRA has come up with. Also, the one bridge would allow a link to the existing N20 and therefore allow traffic from Croom to avail of the M21.

Regards!

AugustusMaximus · 03-08-2009 3:52pm

Could someone tell me are they planning on redesignated any of present N20 North of Cork ? Also, where is the planned North Ring Road - N20 junction going to be.

Chris_533976 · 03-08-2009 4:25pm

NRR/N20 junction will be near Killeens, there are maps here -

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n22_-_northern_ring_road_-_northern_route.php

(Junction types have changed but I cant see them changing the planned 3 level stack). My guess is it'll be M20 north from there.

AugustusMaximus · 03-08-2009 4:31pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

NRR/N20 junction will be near Killeens, there are maps here -

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n22_-_northern_ring_road_-_northern_route.php

(Junction types have changed but I cant see them changing the planned 3 level stack). My guess is it'll be M20 north from there.

Three level stack is a bloody joke. SHould be built as a Cloverleaf junction from day one.

AugustusMaximus · 04-08-2009 6:04pm

BTW, has the route been confirmed yet. Any junctions confirmed.

Am itching to the start the M20 article on wikipedia after doing the M18 one last night.

Chris_533976 · 04-08-2009 8:22pm

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n20_cork_limerick_motorway_scheme_publications.php

Preliminary design pics on there, not wonderful quality so its hard to see parallel roads but thats what they're working on at the moment.

clon · 06-08-2009 4:08pm

Found this on the cork road disgn office for the M20, shows all the sections on video , very cool

http://www.corkrdo.ie/m20_cork_limerick_motorway_scheme_videos.php

Chris_533976 · 06-08-2009 4:18pm

Nice

Its depressing watching it and realising that its gonna be so long before its built.

busman · 06-08-2009 4:45pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Nice

Its depressing watching it and realising that its gonna be so long before its built.

For sure! What's also depressing is the disruption that will be caused by construction. How will they build it and keep the existing N20 open at the same time?

Chris_533976 · 06-08-2009 5:00pm

Probably Nenagh-bypass esque, basically shove all traffic to one side for a while, build the other carriageway, then swap em and do the same.

BluntGuy · 06-08-2009 5:26pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Nice

Its depressing watching it and realising that its gonna be so long before its built.

What's really depressing is the proposed tie-in with the existing M20/N21.

The Word Is Bor · 06-08-2009 6:00pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Probably Nenagh-bypass esque, basically shove all traffic to one side for a while, build the other carriageway, then swap em and do the same.

Rathduff to Blarney is very wide with a number of climbing lanes so the working width won't really be too much of a problem.

Carawaystick · 06-08-2009 8:20pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Rathduff to Blarney is very wide with a number of climbing lanes so the working width won't really be too much of a problem.

Rathduff to Blarney could probably be made 2+2 in the amount of time it takes to re-line and install the barrier. The overtaking lanes are more than motorway width, while the driving lane is wide enough for a lorry to be comfortable inside it on the S3 sections.

The Word Is Bor · 06-08-2009 8:40pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Rathduff to Blarney could probably be made 2+2 in the amount of time it takes to re-line and install the barrier. The overtaking lanes are more than motorway width, while the driving lane is wide enough for a lorry to be comfortable inside it on the S3 sections.

The only thing is that the existing vertical geometry and to a lesser extent, the horizontal geometry, would not meet motorway standards. So there would be some substantial earthworks required in places.

nordydan · 07-08-2009 1:31pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

What's really depressing is the proposed tie-in with the existing M20/N21.

Agreed, I was thinking about the ridiculous alignment of this scheme, and the only conclusion I could think of was that they may be planning the future N21 Adare-Abbeyfeale scheme to run from the southern section of this scheme, something like this

mysterious · 07-08-2009 4:53pm

nordydan wrote: »

Agreed, I was thinking about the ridiculous alignment of this scheme, and the only conclusion I could think of was that they may be planning the future N21 Adare-Abbeyfeale scheme to run from the southern section of this scheme, something like this

The alignement is stil redicoulous, I don't understand how on earth they managed to come up with this route selection its way off the journey, look how dead straight the N21 is and how redicolous the new alignment will be.

BluntGuy · 11-08-2009 2:41pm

http://www.corkman.ie/news/massive-potential-is-just-down-the-road-for-ballyhea--charleville-1837376.html

Interesting piece about the "potential" of the M20 for Charleville.

Chris_533976 · 11-08-2009 5:29pm

Interesting, but that has to be the worst written article Ive ever seen. Have they ever heard of grammar?

The motorway will also open up the old N20 road as a location for industry and particularly for warehousing thus creating a traffic hub for the south and west where the rail head at Charleville could also be utilised to dovetail with motorised distribution to very good advantage as it is located in the middle of Munster with access to major towns and cities in the south and south-west and south-east of the province.

I'd have gotten in trouble for that back in the days when I was at school.

Edit: Its dreadful

Stark · 11-08-2009 5:33pm

I thought it was a very good article for make benefit glorious transport hub.

Edit: I notice there's no name associated with the article. It was probably a slow news day and one of the editing staff had their 10 year old write an article.

The Word Is Bor · 11-08-2009 6:10pm

Stark wrote: »

I thought it was a very good article for make benefit glorious transport hub.

Edit: I notice there's no name associated with the article. It was probably a slow news day and one of the editing staff had their 10 year old write an article.

Looks more like an 'advertorial' written by some property developer or an auctioneer. Get in on the ground floor so to sepak...

KerranJast · 11-08-2009 6:18pm

They do that all the time. The writing staff do very little research. They "wrote" an article about a website myself and a few friends started a year or two ago and all they did was copy and paste our PR blurb into the article and tack on two short sentences at the start. At least our spelling and grammar were correct. :rolleyes:

The Word Is Bor · 01-09-2009 9:17pm

'Hot off the presses' from The Leader with "an exclusive"

Cash shortage halts M20 between Limerick and Cork

Published Date: 01 September 2009
A PROPOSED multi-million euro motorway between Limerick and Cork has been postponed because of a shortage of money, the National Roads Authority (NRA) has confirmed.
The M20 motorway project was initially due to be part of a newtranche of public private partnership projects announced in June but a spokesperson for the NRA confirmed to the Limerick Leader that construction of the road will not nowproceed in the foreseeable future.

The authority has seen its funding for newp rojects significantly reduced as a result of current economic difficulties and say though the road is a PPP project, significant state funding would still be required to proceed with the land procurement and an Environmental Impact Statement.

Sean O'Neill, head of communications at the NRA said that the M20 had been "reprioritised" due to lower traffic volumes compared to other schemes also awaiting funding. "The reprioritising of these PPP projects will affect the scheduling of the M20 but not ultimately the construction of it," he said.

The NRA's decision not to proceed with the project at this time will inevitably delay its construction by several years, especially in light of current economic constraints.

The existing N20, which the M20 would replace, is of particularly poor quality between Mallow and Croom and has seen several fatal accidents along this narrow, twisty section in recent years.

Limerick West TD Niall Collins said that the postponement of the scheme was not bad news however, given the level of uncertainty about the proposed road in South County Limerick. "In Croom, Kilmallock and Bruree there were serious concerns about access to the newroad and the affect this would have on local businesses. People were very concerned that this road would have a negative impact on south County Limerick," said the Fianna Fáil TD.

As a result of the review of PPP contracts the NRA can give no timeframe on when the M20 scheme might be resurrected stating that the "N20 Limerick to Cork schemes will be deferred to a later date".

Typewriter · 01-09-2009 9:35pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

'Hot off the presses' from The Leader with "an exclusive"

Cash shortage halts M20 between Limerick and Cork

Published Date: 01 September 2009
A PROPOSED multi-million euro motorway between Limerick and Cork has been postponed because of a shortage of money, the National Roads Authority (NRA) has confirmed.
The M20 motorway project was initially due to be part of a newtranche of public private partnership projects announced in June but a spokesperson for the NRA confirmed to the Limerick Leader that construction of the road will not nowproceed in the foreseeable future.

The authority has seen its funding for newp rojects significantly reduced as a result of current economic difficulties and say though the road is a PPP project, significant state funding would still be required to proceed with the land procurement and an Environmental Impact Statement.

Sean O'Neill, head of communications at the NRA said that the M20 had been "reprioritised" due to lower traffic volumes compared to other schemes also awaiting funding. "The reprioritising of these PPP projects will affect the scheduling of the M20 but not ultimately the construction of it," he said.

The NRA's decision not to proceed with the project at this time will inevitably delay its construction by several years, especially in light of current economic constraints.

The existing N20, which the M20 would replace, is of particularly poor quality between Mallow and Croom and has seen several fatal accidents along this narrow, twisty section in recent years.

Limerick West TD Niall Collins said that the postponement of the scheme was not bad news however, given the level of uncertainty about the proposed road in South County Limerick. "In Croom, Kilmallock and Bruree there were serious concerns about access to the newroad and the affect this would have on local businesses. People were very concerned that this road would have a negative impact on south County Limerick," said the Fianna Fáil TD.

As a result of the review of PPP contracts the NRA can give no timeframe on when the M20 scheme might be resurrected stating that the "N20 Limerick to Cork schemes will be deferred to a later date".

Ah poo! That means no Cork north ring road either.

The Word Is Bor · 01-09-2009 9:43pm

Not so. The could kill the M20 but run the CNRR and N21 Adare Bypass as stand-alone scheme's with traditional contracts. Funding would be cheaper than PPP route as well.

Zoney · 01-09-2009 10:11pm

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Limerick West TD Niall Collins said that the postponement of the scheme was not bad news however, given the level of uncertainty about the proposed road in South County Limerick. "In Croom, Kilmallock and Bruree there were serious concerns about access to the newroad and the affect this would have on local businesses. People were very concerned that this road would have a negative impact on south County Limerick," said the Fianna Fáil TD.

Some local representative he is. What a myopic position.

As if having the current sorry excuse for a national road does the county much good!

corktina · 01-09-2009 10:22pm

seeing as the good bits of the road are all in Limerick anyway I guess he just doesnt want money spent in Cork where it will earn him no votes.... the N20 should be given priority before someone else dies at Ballybeg ...usage figures should surely be secondary to this criterion.

The Word Is Bor · 01-09-2009 10:22pm

Zoney wrote: »

Some local representative he is. What a myopic position.

As if having the current sorry excuse for a national road does the county much good!

That's the bit of the article that really struck me. More sleeveenism/gombeenism from The Soldiers of Destiny.

munchkin_utd · 01-09-2009 10:36pm

That's the bit of the article that really struck me. More sleeveenism/gombeenism from The Soldiers of Destiny.

still doesn't beat Ned O Keefe telling one district of his constituency that he wouldnt help them in their quest for upgrading a delapadated school as a punishment for that area not voting for him in numbers.

No wonder cork is called the rebel county. Even TDs rebel against their own potential voters!

Actually isnt Ned o Keefe the TD for that part of the world too where the N20 runs?

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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