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Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

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  • #152
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    So why did you sat it was only a "slight Variation" on Bukkake.

    Its a fairly Massive variation.
    Well I see it in simple terms ,I am not an expert on Bukkake so we will settle for a fairly Massive variation .


  • #153
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    ztoical wrote: »
    So if someone has seen 1000 films [still hating everyones assumption that porn = film] and has the opinion that porn is degrading to women is their opinion still not valid just cus you've seen porn that in your opinion isn't degrading to women?

    First off, video porn is film.
    The reason we have dictionaries is so we all know what words mean.
    Film does not strictly mean feature length audiovisual films of non-pornographic nature.

    Second. I said nothing of the sort.
    In fact, that is pretty much the opposite of what I was saying.

    Don't put words in my mouth, its detestable.
    If you can't form a decent argument agree, either to disagree or don't respond.
    I have absolutely nothing else to say to you.


  • #154
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    shellyboo wrote: »
    Because some people don't care that it's degrading to women. We're not all part of the PC Brigade .
    No we're not but all those thousends of women are not there in those porn films at the point of a gun , that was my point


  • #155
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    shellyboo wrote: »
    It's also annoying when someone says "people who only listen to mainstream music are idiots who don't know any better". Which is essentially what you were saying.
    Someone who happens not to like mainstream music is an idiot if they dismiss all modern music as crap and yet never listen to anything outside the mainstream.

    I have no problem with someone liking mainstream music and thus only listening to it.
    shellyboo wrote: »
    I agree with your basic premise, but people have a right to hold their own opinions, and dismissing their opinions just because you think they're wrong is just as narrow-minded and short-sighted.
    There's a difference between knowing something is blatantly wrong and just thinking that they're wrong and being bigoted about it.

    I personally have no time for mass, inaccurate generalisations based on one's limited experiences, be it "modern music is crap", "porn is degrading to women" or "women are bad drivers".


  • #156
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Latchy wrote: »
    I am not an expert on Bukkake

    Who is?

    And would admit it.......


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  • #157
    ztoical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    First off, video porn is film.
    The reason we have dictionaries is so we all know what words mean.
    Film does not strictly mean feature length audiovisual films of non-pornographic nature.

    Actually I meant that porn is more then film it covers books/comics/photos/video games etc ....might be worth going back and reading the whole thread.


  • #158
    ztoical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Who is?

    And would admit it.......

    *holds up hand*


  • #159
    Jumpy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    ztoical wrote: »
    *holds up hand*

    I guess you have given it a ... shot.





    AHAHAHAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA *chokes*


  • #160
    DenMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,334 ✭✭✭DenMan


    Afternoon ladies

    Maybe this is just one example. When I lived in Malta we used to meet a lot of semi-porn actresses in the clubs and bars (Paceville). These girls were from neighbouring Italy on hols. While they may have liked it on the surface and were reasonably well paid but were treated like d**t by the production companies who made the films. They used to break down and cry as it did humiliate them but only hours after.

    It is humiliating and demeaning to some of them. After all it is the majority made by guys for guys. There are a lot more ex porn stars (women) making films themselves because they do want to concentrate on the woman and how it affects her.

    Anyways that's that. Thanks for reading.


  • #161
    shellyboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    DenMan wrote: »
    Afternoon ladies

    Maybe this is just one example. When I lived in Malta we used to meet a lot of semi-porn actresses in the clubs and bars (Paceville). These girls were from neighbouring Italy on hols. While they may have liked it on the surface and were reasonably well paid but were treated like d**t by the production companies who made the films. They used to break down and cry as it did humiliate them but only hours after.

    It is humiliating and demeaning to some of them. After all it is the majority made by guys for guys. There are a lot more ex porn stars (women) making films themselves because they do want to concentrate on the woman and how it affects her.

    Anyways that's that. Thanks for reading.


    Ok, what is semi-porn? First of all. And second of all, it goes without saying that the *industry* can be degrading for the women that work in it.

    We're more talking about women thinking that the scene being acted out in porn is degrading to the woman participating in it. As in, the positions, the dirty talk, etc.


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  • #162
    DenMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,334 ✭✭✭DenMan


    shellyboo wrote: »
    Ok, what is semi-porn? First of all. And second of all, it goes without saying that the *industry* can be degrading for the women that work in it.

    We're more talking about women thinking that the scene being acted out in porn is degrading to the woman participating in it. As in, the positions, the dirty talk, etc.

    Hi shellyboo

    That's what I just said. The scene itself is blatently fake and that's what makes them feel so sad afterwords. It's just a job.

    Some of them held jobs in banking, fashion magazines, air hostesses (i know) and other professional jobs and did some porn on the side to make some money from it. Short term contracts, 6-8 months part time with no benefits (eg no STD screenings, transport etc), which they have to pay for themselves.


  • #163
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    I think that kind of dirt ultimately shows in the end product.
    Cheap nasty crap.

    Its consumer perpetuated too unfortunately.


  • #164
    moe_sizlak
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 883 ✭✭✭moe_sizlak


    ok , i do watch porn , at least once a week but usually only for less than 5 mins on the net , i always always feel worse afterwards than i did before i watch it yet always go back for more , does this make me an addict , i dont know , i dont think about porn during the day or anything , i think porn is wholey a negative influence on society and has almost no redeeming features other than perhaps to provide socially inpet men a sexual outlet , as i watch porn on occasion , i realise theese views make me a hypocrite

    i think the women involved in porn are victims and i suspect most of them have psychological issues from childhood , they are baschically glorified prostitutes

    on a less serious note , i find it strange that any man would want to watch porn with his or her partner , surely they would feel a little , ahem , small seeing that most male porn stars are two legged horses


  • #165
    lizzyvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    It's unfortunate that some people are so lonely that they have to satisfy their carnal urges without any of the more wholesome and fulfilling aspects of a sexual relationship.

    I dislike the Hollywood/porn idea of what sex should be. Unfortunately it was my first exposure to sex and shaped my view of it. When I was younger I thought that sex was all about looking a certain way, wearing lingerie and trying new positions and new things all the time. I never enjoyed it that much, and thought I just needed to try even more things...

    I now understand what they tried to tell us in religion class in school- about the emotional side and all that- and begrudgingly I admit they were right. I enjoy it a lot more now (I can't emphasis that enough:D) and it makes me sad that some people's attitudes are what mine were, because they're missing out. I think pornography and media depictions of sex are bad for our sexuality. It would also annoy me if I had an OH who was into it because I would feel that I could never live up to their expectations of the female body, but that's just my body insecurities, not my moral judgement.


    The corruption of the industry and the horrific rape and abuse of children and trafficked women in it is another issue. Every drugs/porn/prostitution topic gets these mixed up. We know the industries are cruel, but are the practices themselves immoral?


  • #166
    shellyboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    moe_sizlak wrote: »
    ok , i do watch porn , at least once a week but usually only for less than 5 mins on the net , i always always feel worse afterwards than i did before i watch it yet always go back for more , does this make me an addict , i dont know , i dont think about porn during the day or anything , i think porn is wholey a negative influence on society and has almost no redeeming features other than perhaps to provide socially inpet men a sexual outlet , as i watch porn on occasion , i realise theese views make me a hypocrite


    What about me? I'm a non-socially inept woman and I watch it...
    moe_sizlak wrote: »
    i think the women involved in porn are victims and i suspect most of them have psychological issues from childhood , they are baschically glorified prostitutes

    Just the women? The men are selling themselves too, are they not "glorified prostitues", do they not have "psychological issues"? Oh wait, course not, cos women are supposed to hate sex, I forgot :rolleyes:


    moe_sizlak wrote: »
    on a less serious note , i find it strange that any man would want to watch porn with his or her partner , surely they would feel a little , ahem , small seeing that most male porn stars are two legged horses


    Why would anyone feel bad? You'd be as well feeling bad that they had brown hair or small nipples. Completely arbitrary what size their penises are, it's an accident of birth. I'd say the same for any woman feeling inadequate watching the "perfect" porn stars - they're not real people, they're pixels on a screen. Nobody in their right mind would idealise them over real sex with a real human being.


  • #167
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    moe_sizlak wrote: »
    ok , i do watch porn , at least once a week but usually only for less than 5 mins on the net , i always always feel worse afterwards than i did before i watch it yet always go back for more , does this make me an addict , i dont know , i dont think about porn during the day or anything , i think porn is wholey a negative influence on society and has almost no redeeming features other than perhaps to provide socially inpet men a sexual outlet , as i watch porn on occasion , i realise theese views make me a hypocrite

    What a ridiculous statement.The idea that if a bloke watchs porn then they are socially inept.By your terribly flawed logic that means most men with internet access are socially inept.Would you care to elaborate on this?

    Also,I presume socially inept men use proper spelling,punctuation and grammer too?
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    It's unfortunate that some people are so lonely that they have to satisfy their carnal urges without any of the more wholesome and fulfilling aspects of a sexual relationship.


    The corruption of the industry and the horrific rape and abuse of children and trafficked women in it is another issue.

    Dp you not think its a good thing that these people have a sexual outlet though?Would it not be more harmfull repressing your sexual desires or urges.
    Some people simply cannot interact socially with other human beings so should they be denied a basic physiological need just because they are single?

    Im not sure where the latter part of your post is coming from.The horrific rape and abuse of children?This has been going on for a helluva lot longer than porn has been easily accessible.
    You are gone off on a complete tangent.Sex trafficking,child porn etc has nothing to do with this.The thread is about peoples attitudes to porn with 2 (or more) consenting adults.

    Anyone with even a shred of scruples know child porn is the vilest of the vile so thats not up for debate.


  • #168
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    nedtheshed wrote: »
    Some people simply cannot interact socially with other human beings so should they be denied a basic physiological need just because they are single?
    Well, one can masturbate fairly successfully without porn.


  • #169
    Fugly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Fugly


    I'm a female and I enjoy porn, well more erotic lit, tbh. It's such a huge medium that of course it includes what can be regarded as negative and offensive. (but of course different things will offend will different folks.) I think people assume porn refers to the hollywood, surgically digitially enhanced films with women degraded, but it's a lot more than that.

    As for women's body image, it's fantasy and more importantly fake, any intelligent man can recognise and appreciate the difference. I think that tha portrayal of these "perfect" women, for different people that definition changes dramatically.

    And I see that same issue in most forms of media, and I don't believe porn is men's only opportunity to view a woman and get ideas of what they want/like from a woman. I know as a women, getting naked with a guy for the first time can be nerve-wrecking, but I think comparing myself to their pervious partners' bodies and abilities and my own personal body insecurities would (and does) cause the nervousness, never has "I hope I can live up to "debby does dallas"" entered my mind.

    I would never be put off by a guy who watched it, however if it was excessive viewing or an inability to distingush porn from real sex I would move on, quickly.

    I must admit, I've had a range of experience with different types of men and I've never heard the line "but they do it in porn" :eek:. I'd probably faint, none of (even my most tactless) male friends would be as stupid to actually say that to a girl, what intelligent male would think that's a valid arguement. :eek::eek::eek: WTF?!


    I really think that porn is an (optional) addition to a healthy sex life. As my maths teacher used to say, different strokes for different folks. It's about what turns you on, and satisfies you.

    I don't see it as one hasn't grown-up or matured to the more emotional side of sex, as I think was implied by lizzyvera. I have always had a high sex drive and a range of tastes, I like playing games and having fun with my sexuality, that in no way detracts from emotional sex with a partner. I like a mix sometimes experimental/cuddly/giggly/ passionate sex.

    I do think that in schools sex-ed is too focused on the use protection mantra and miss a golden opportunity to discuss the emotional side as well as the protrayal of sex within the media and the sex industry.

    Also as an industry, it may degrade but why assume that the only one's degraded are the female "actors" ?. Degradation within in any industry including porn, is not limited to females. Although the majority of those degraded may be of one gender, to dismiss the other victims as non-existent is a little narrow minded.


  • #170
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Well, one can masturbate fairly successfully without porn.

    Thats completly true,but to use a food analogy,roast beef is nice,roast beef with gravy,veg and a yorkshire pudding is much much nicer.;)


  • #171
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Indeed, but only giving someone roast beef would hardly be denying them a basic physiological need.

    Where did the idea that sex/masturbation is a need come from anyway? It's clearly a want, an indulgence. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    And if you were to describe it as a need, it would certainly be an emotional/psychological one, as opposed to a physiological one.


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  • #172
    shellyboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Indeed, but only giving someone roast beef would hardly be denying them a basic physiological need.

    Where did the idea that sex/masturbation is a need come from anyway? It's clearly a want, an indulgence. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    And if you were to describe it as a need, it would certainly be an emotional/psychological one, as opposed to a physiological one.


    Nope, sorry, definitely a need for me. Psychological need. Am an unmitigated bitch if I don't get some form of sexual stimulation on a regular basis. Get quite depressed after a while, actually.


  • #173
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Well, it's a need in the same way that an addictive drug is a need to an addict.

    Anyone who gets off regularly is a (non problematic) sex addict. I remember reading a study that found the psychological drug addiction mechanism to be pretty much the same as being in love, I'd imagine it's the same with sex.

    I reckon if I forced myself to endure 2 or 3 months without sex/masturbation, I could live a celibate life, but I'm not entirely sure, perhaps sex is an instinctive addiction present in all of us?


  • #174
    Fugly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Fugly


    I'm no expert, but from every conversation I've had with a medical professional regarding sex I've been left with the impression that sex for a sexually mature adult human is regarded as a need by the medical profession.

    Due to the range of sex drives, it varies for all and for some is non-existent, usually a hormonal cause though it may be psychological one.

    Speaking in simple biology and evolutionary terms, reproduction is a need. For us, and alot of other organisms that means sex is a need. We get horny for a reason: to reproduce. If sex was a mere "extra" the earth would be a very different place.

    Also sex/masturbation is good for you, endorphins are released, stress relieved for both body and mind etc. I know without a regular sexual release, I'm a very different person.

    But I'm way off topic.sorry.


  • #175
    Fugly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 250 ✭✭Fugly


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    but I'm not entirely sure, perhaps sex is an instinctive addiction present in all of us?


    To ensure the continuation of our species you're "hard-wired" so to speak, to want to reproduce.


  • #176
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    Indeed, but only giving someone roast beef would hardly be denying them a basic physiological need.

    Where did the idea that sex/masturbation is a need come from anyway? It's clearly a want, an indulgence. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    And if you were to describe it as a need, it would certainly be an emotional/psychological one, as opposed to a physiological one.

    Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.Taken in context,it makes alot of sense.As humans we have basic needs,food,breathing,sleep etc.Maslow put forward the notion that sex,while obviously not life threatening to do without like the others,is also a basic human need as opposed to a want.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Physiological_needs


  • #177
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    hmm... interesting. It's a pity there's nothing in the wikipedia article on the context of the inclusion of sex.

    But back to the point of porn being used as a sexual outlet for the socially inept. I would think that it would further their problem and lessen their motivation to interact with others. (a similar argument is used against legalising drugs, actually, interesting how both are linked)


  • #178
    shellyboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭shellyboo


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    But back to the point of porn being used as a sexual outlet for the socially inept. I would think that it would further their problem and lessen their motivation to interact with others. (a similar argument is used against legalising drugs, actually, interesting how both are linked)


    I'd tend to agree... but I'd also say that if the motivation's not there to begin with, porn's not going to make it all that much worse. I'd also say that it's not a substitute for real human interaction, and even inexperienced, socially inept people will recognise that eventually and crave something more.


  • #179
    ztoical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    hmm... interesting. It's a pity there's nothing in the wikipedia article on the context of the inclusion of sex.

    There have been a number of studies about humans and sex in relation to other primates as we are one of the few animals that uses sex for pleasure and not just for making babies. Studies looking at Bonobos are very interesting as sex plays a major role in bonobo society - like us they will sex for pleasure and not just for baby making, it is used for such things as greeting and conflict resolution. Common chimps don't use sex the way Bonobos do and while there is clear evidence of violence and lethal aggression towards each other in wild chimps, there has so far been no evidence of this among Bonobos.

    It's an interesting study as chimps and bonobos are close to us on the evolutionary tree and when you think about it, nature has never told us that sex is dirty or bad or only to be used for baby making, it was religion.


  • #180
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    .

    But back to the point of porn being used as a sexual outlet for the socially inept. I would think that it would further their problem and lessen their motivation to interact with others. (a similar argument is used against legalising drugs, actually, interesting how both are linked)
    Considering that porn is viewd by all types ie, single , married and from all backgrounds it might be that bit harder to define the social inept but even dwarfs ,cripples (and some mentally illiterate ) may have to substitute viewing porn for the real thing ,assuming the latter has access to it .

    I agree with Ztoical in that nature never told us that sex is dirty or bad and only used for baby making ,it was religion .


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  • #181
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    JC 2K3 wrote: »
    hmm... interesting. It's a pity there's nothing in the wikipedia article on the context of the inclusion of sex.

    I think sex is included in Maslows theory because its something every single animal in the world is aware of.
    In the animal kingdom,every animal knows how to copulate,its one of the basest instincts any species has,the survival of that species.
    As humans evolved over many millions of years sex became more a pleasurable as opposed to functional experience,but that base instinct of needing to procreate is still there.Its a wholly subconcious thing IMO and the need has been blurred into a want.

    Anyway,Im going waaay off topic again.Apologies!


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